F-14A typical loadout in air-air combat?

[Erwin_Hans 6]

What the F-14A typical loadout in air-air combat?

I heared F-14A use AIM-54 in fighter combat role.

Is this real?

And I know AIM-54 is made for Backfires...

Is AIM-54 better than AIM-7s in fighter air combat?

[Guest a10boar]

http://www.answers.com/topic/f-14-tomcat#Armament

 

This might help answering some questions.

[ironroad 218]

Well look at the types of missions each missile was (later variants) were designed for. The phoenix was fast, very fast, in fact it was designed to be so big and fast that its own radar could track the target after X amount of miles, big enough to carry the gas, and fast enough so the targets would be clobbered before they could take evasive action. Downside was mobility and weight (both the missile and the plane).

 

 

I know that when launching off ship and Aim-54s were carried they generally carried only two on the forward pylons so they could bring them back aboard. Theoritically the only time an F-14 would carry a full load is if a massive strike/vampires were possible.

 

The Aim-7 has a longer combat record, with other fighters and the F-14, I believe the VF-32 got a Libyan mig with one. I have heard of an Aim-54 being launched once during desert storm and missing, however not to sure of the Iranian's experience with the missile.

 

Maybe someone with "been there done that" experience, ie Typhoid, can chime in and better explain.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ironroad

[+ST0RM 145]

Typhoid and Vampyre will know for sure, but the AIM-54 was a fleet defense weapons to be used against non maneuvering bomber formations.

 

Because of weight issues, you would only see a full load of Phoenix for photo ops.

 

From what I've seen and read over the years, a mix of 4 AIM-7s and 4 AIM-9s or 6 Sparrows and 2 Sidewinders was a common war load. If you look at photos of intercepts, you see one, maybe two Sparrows and a single AIM-9.

 

MATS the F-14 site

 

The link above is an excellent source of Tomcat info.

 

-S

 

P.S. The Iranian Air Force claims several fighter kills with the Phoenix. But you need to take those with a grain of salt since records are not freely available. Tom Cooper's book on the subject is a consideration, but I cannot be 100% sure of the accuracy.

Edited May 24, 2009 by ST0RM

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Thanks.....

 

Good sites..good info..

[jaeger_301 0]

besides weight restrictions the decision what missiles where loaded depended on the XO. an important fact is also that the AIM 54 carried in the "pancake" (the area between the engines) disrubded the lift significantly what caused a severe penalty for dogfights. based on this the ROE and expected enemy came in the quotation too - like vis identifikation and others.

 

during the lybian engagements one squadron went up with AIM7 AIM9 weapons only while another selected 2 AIM54.

 

the AIM54 scored very well with the iranian against the iraqi fighters even with the 17g limit, the main reason for this success was that the iraqi RWR (when installed) gear couldn t detect the F14 radar. later in the war Mirage F1 with up to date RWR and Jammers could threaden the F14 (the iranians did not get the radar with all the capabilitys of the USN). 

 

Jaeger

[Vampyre 24]

In 2003, we were launching our F-14D's out with mixed loadouts that included AIM-54C's on the port shoulder pylon. Stbd side was loaded with the LANTIRN Pod. I did not see any F-14's (or Hornets for that matter) leave the deck with a dedicated air to air loadout. The LANTIRN was always carried and was usually counterbalanced by an AIM-7 or AIM-54. I have never seen the 4 Sparrow 4 Winder loadout actually used but I know they can be loaded that way. If I were to take the Tomcat against other fighters a combination of AIM-7's and AIM-9's is the best bet (that is, in fact, what I take in WOX to perform fighter sweeps with the F-14).

 

The AIM-54 had some success in the Iran-Iraq war in the 80's but that was mainly due to the primitive ESM/ECM, generally poor command, communications, control and pilot training of the Iraqi Air Force. Iranian claims are many with at least two kills being acknowledged by the US. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

Here's a photo I took of one of our Tomcats returning from a patrol in 2005-6. Notice that it is only carrying two Sidewinders but is ready to have an AIM-7 loaded on the port shoulder pylon if needed. There was not much call for air to air weapons in Iraq at that time so they were left off to save their airframe hours. (yes missiles have airframe hours too)

 

This pic (not taken by me) shows the typical loadout for F-14 during the 2003 war. Sometimes it was an AIM-54 and sometimes it was an AIM-7 on this station.

 

Oh, and the AIM-54 was out of service in 2005.

Edited May 24, 2009 by Vampyre

[Erwin_Hans 6]

Thanks for infos and cool pics..

 

I have another question..

 

Can F-14s splash Russian 4 Generation aircraft like Flankers in A/A by AIM-54?

[DWCAce 19]

Thanks for infos and cool pics..

 

I have another question..

 

Can F-14s splash Russian 4 Generation aircraft like Flankers in A/A by AIM-54?

 

 

I think it was Manfred Von Richthofen that said it best "The quality of the crate matters not."

 

Another excellent source of info:

 

http://www.tomcat-sunset.org/forums/index.php

[gbnavy61 1]

Thanks for infos and cool pics..

 

I have another question..

 

Can F-14s splash Russian 4 Generation aircraft like Flankers in A/A by AIM-54?

 

Why not? May not be very likely, but it's certainly possible.

 

Maybe Vampyre can correct me, but I thought ordnance carried in the tunnel had minimal impact on performance. I thought the aerodynamic penalties were worse with big things like the Phoenix being loaded on the glove stations.

[DWCAce 19]

One thing to consider with the AIM-54 in the tunnel was that each missile was mounted on a pallet, adding weight.

[Caesar 305]

The loadout depends on what the squadron thought was appropriate and the timeframe. I think "Hey Joe" Parsons (F-14 RIO) said during his stint with VF-32 they carried 4 sparrow between the intakes, while their sister squadron (VF-14 at the time, IIRC) had 2 AIM-54 under there. "Skogs" Skogsberg (F-14 Pilot, VF-14) had 1, 3, 2 (Phoenix, Sparrow, Sidewinder) in '83-'84, VF-41 and -84 did a 2,4 (Sparrow, Sidewinder) while off the coast of Iran. VF-1 on the first cruise had 2 Phoenix, 1 Sparrow and 4 Sidewinder, but even that was variable ("Turk" Pentecost recounts a 1,2,4 also used). - all this info can be found at Tomcat Sunset (link posted by DWCAce).

 

As DWCAce stated, the AIM-54's pallets added weight as well, but also they take away from the lift generated by the tunnel/pancake, so the F-14 isn't getting as much lift even after having fired the -54's, so a pure "fighter" loadout would be better off with either 4, 4 or 6, 2 (Sparrow, Sidewinder).

 

The Phoenix's effectiveness against fighters always seems debatable - the Iranians claim to have quite a few fighter kills with the earliest "A" models of the missile. The missile also improved much over the years, and the late versions (C+, C++ block 7) would be tough to beat even in a maneuverable plane. Unfortunately, a lot of the details on why are still classified, but I can assume that because the missile is launched in TWS mode, the target isn't going to be maneuvering much because they aren't going to know they are being shot at until the missile goes terminal/active when it is right on top of them.

 

EDIT: Vampyre, great shots!

Edited May 24, 2009 by Caesar

[greyman 0]

 

Here's a photo I took of one of our Tomcats returning from a patrol in 2005-6. Notice that it is only carrying two Sidewinders but is ready to have an AIM-7 loaded on the port shoulder pylon if needed. There was not much call for air to air weapons in Iraq at that time so they were left off to save their airframe hours. (yes missiles have airframe hours too)

 

Dude I'm borrowing your pics i want to post them into this Facebook page. I want an F-14 Tomcat http://www.facebook.com/groups/iwantonef14/. thanks.