Love the Tripe

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

No offense to all of you in the Camels and SE5as, but I don't understand why everyone's favourite plane isn't the Sopwith Triplane. It's just so truly, utterly, nifty.

 

Historically, I can understand why it only flew for a limited time, with its maintenance issues and the minor quibble of a wing or two coming off now and then, but still . . .

 

Its lines are clean, and despite the three wings, it has a simple elegance to its appearance. Everything that is there is there for an obvious reason. When you look at it, there's nothing that makes you say "Why did they do that?" I would argue that it was the best looking plane of the war. I don't think a better looking war plane came along until the Mosquito in WWII.

 

On the technical side it was manoeuvrable, climbed well, and had a great field of view. It was also original in its time, unlike the DR1, which everyone seems to gush over even though it was really just a poor man's Tripe. :yes:

 

Sure, the Sopwith only had one gun, as compared to the DR1's duallies, but geez, it's still a machine gun. Surely you can get by with one.

 

One possible reason I like the Tripe so much is that, as a Canadian, I've always been an admirer of Raymond Collishaw and the Black Flight. There were lots of good Canadian pilots, but the thing about Collishaw is that, unlike some alliteratively named pilots I could mention, his claimed victories were probably understated rather than overstated. He had, for example, the habit of taking up new pilots, shooting up an enemy plane, then allowing the new guy to put in the last few shots to claim his first victory. Seems a decent sort of chap to me.

 

On the other hand, maybe I like the Tripe because its peculiarities mesh well with all of my bad piloting habits. I seem to do better in it in OFF than in any other plane, except for possibly the F2B. The AI gunner in the back of the Biff makes me feel like I'm cheating, though. Heh.

 

Honestly, I don't understand why the Tripe doesn't get more love, especially considering the hype that surrounds the DR1. Personally, I blame Snoopy.

[Duce Lewis 3]

Sure, the Sopwith only had one gun, as compared to the DR1's duallies, but geez, it's still a machine gun. Surely you can get by with one.

Well here some news that'll make your day

There is a 2 gun version of the tripe in OFF

Collishaw flew it ...there were only 6 made in real life

I think it's available for 1 month in 2 of the RNAS squads ...not sure of the details

 

Enjoy, ...and you really should try the Fok DVII out

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

Well here some news that'll make your day

There is a 2 gun version of the tripe in OFF

Collishaw flew it ...there were only 6 made in real life

I think it's available for 1 month in 2 of the RNAS squads ...not sure of the details

 

Enjoy, ...and you really should try the Fok DVII out

 

Yeah, I've tried the two-gun version. I just miss twice as much.

 

And sure, the DVII is a nice plane, but to me comparing it with the Tripe is like comparing a modern corvette and a vintage 911. One is more advanced and has nicer seats, but the other is just a lot more fun.

[Hellshade 110]

The tripe is my favorite too. It used to be the SE5a for the easy to fly, stable gun platform factors, but the visibility, manueverability and firepower of the tripe (2 gun version) makes it my preferred Quick Combat a/c of choice. The DR 1 isn't even close in my opinion. Too twitchy and hard to line up a target. Too each their own of course. I know a few folks fell in love with the Spads Boom & Zoom attacks. Me, I could never get it to turn around fast enough. Stalled out constantly too. That's one of the real beauties of OFF though. So many different types of planes to try that everyone is bound to find at least one that fits their dogfighting style.

 

Hellshade

[Guest British_eh]

On the technical side it was manoeuvrable, climbed well, and had a great field of view. It was also original in its time, unlike the DR1, which everyone seems to gush over even though it was really just a poor man's Tripe. :yes: Schnitzel von Krumm

 

 

Vell,vell min Krumm,zo, ve don't likh ze Dr.vun ya?

 

Not an expert yet, but certainly getting better read about the Dr.1 The pilots, (German), on the Front raved about the Sop Tripe, and certainly being a pilot, and looking to make money in his aircraft production business, A. Fokker took the idea, and developed the Dr.1 with the assistance of Rheinhold Platz. While they did actually see a cpatured Sop Tripe, other than the three wings, they are apples and oranges, so to speak.

 

With regards to sim pilots choices for aircraft, it would seem that you and I favour:

 

1. Close in fighting

2. Turning

3. Climbing

4.Slow stall speed

 

These characteristics are certainly in my mind, what the Tripe and the Dr exhibit the best. The SE5a is a favorite as the ease of flying, visiblity, two guns, and speed, give it bang for your buck.

 

Oh, just a note. The Tripe had a larger engine added, (from the 110 hp to the 130 hp Clerget), a reduction in wing span, which was originally the same as the Pups two wings, and a change in the shape of the tailplane size from 10 ft. to 8 ft, all to make the aircraft less stable, more twitchy, and therefore a better fighter, in Harry Hawker's opinion. The production model was thus changed, but the end result was certainly everything you graciously attribute to it.

 

Oh, it is my second favorite OFF aircraft :}

[Bigfish2 0]

I agree; and its FM is particularly delicious as the wings fall off with a bang if you get too carried away with yr ACM. As this doesn't happen to the DrI I'm following down pulling loads of G, I assume Mr Fokker built sturdier wings when he pinched the triplane design?

[Dej 17]

No offense to all of you in the Camels and SE5as, but I don't understand why everyone's favourite plane isn't the Sopwith Triplane. It's just so truly, utterly, nifty.

 

...

 

Honestly, I don't understand why the Tripe doesn't get more love, especially considering the hype that surrounds the DR1. Personally, I blame Snoopy.

 

LOL, don't get me started on how wonderful the Tripe is. She's an absolute dream, handles well, no vices and is a match for any other machine in the sky in the whole period of the war... as long a she can catch 'em. Against her commonest contemporary enemy the DIII, she's unbeatable one on one and has a damn good chance three or more on one... unless Olham's flying the Alb. of course.

 

As I've said before, it's criminal that the RFC didn't get them... 'Bloody April' would never have happened... 'Blutiger April' might have though

[Olham 164]

Well, Schnitzel von Krumm, falling in love is impossible to explain.

So everyone may have a different "love" around here, and there are pilots (Dej for example),

who really love the Tripe. My love goes to the Albatros DIII and DV versions. A robust craft,

with the ultimate beauty of shapes and linings. You see, tastes are often different.

 

Several times in the past I have seen someone "loving" one crate, and then comparing it to

a similar enemy craft to make that one down a bit.

Although i have only flown these craft in simulations, I am pretty sure, that the Fokker Dr.1

was not much of a copy of the Tripe. It's true, the Tripe brought up the idea of three wings.

But apart from that, the Fokker is built pretty different. It has a much shorter wingspan, what

makes the craft extremely agile. The wings with the thick Goettingen airfoil must have made

a good climb rate and where very stabile after they had been re-done through Fokker.

 

The Dr.1 is very different to all the craft here. It is an 'instabile' aircraft. It had no fin; only rudder.

The craft reacts immediately to all your stick movements - to the good and bad. You can perform

combat manoeuvers, the other craft could not copy. It flies almost against all common behaviour.

Shooting has to be learnt again on that craft; it feels extremely 'nervous'.

But in the hands of a skilled pilot this craft is almost unbeatable in a turn fight.

 

One should not compare the Tripe with the Dr.1 - when the Fokker came up, the days of the Tripe

where already gone.

[Hasse Wind 46]

My love goes to the Albatros DIII and DV versions. A robust craft,

with the ultimate beauty of shapes and linings. You see, tastes are often different.

 

The more I've flown the various Albatrosses in campaign mode, the more I've learnt to like them, though I'm not so fond of the D.V or D.Va. But the D.II and D.III I find extremely easy planes to like - they're fast enough for their time, easy to fly, nimble (the D.III in particular), they've got plenty of firepower and they don't have any nasty flight characteristics. I may have to say the D.II is my current favourite, because it has stronger wings than the D.III so I can do some harder manouevres with it. I shouldn't jinx my career, but it looks like my longest-living pilot ever is going to be my current Alb D.II pilot.

 

I think I've spent most of my OFF time flying the Albs and the Pfalz for the Germans. Soon I'm going to start a Fokker D.VII career (my first) and then I'll start flying more for the Entente. The Tripe is high on my list of planes to try...

 

And then there are all the two-seaters with which I have very little experience, just one (failed) Strutter campaign. Isn't OFF just great! :yes:

[Olham 164]

Hasse Wind: Isn't OFF just great! yes.gif

 

Absolutely, Hasse Wind - so much still to explore for me too.

 

About the DII: you got me thinking about trying that craft even in early 1917, as her diving ability is really better.

 

About the DVa: I had my greatest success in her, from Vauxcerre, June 1918. Opponents there

where almost only SPAD XIII. You can have them for breakfast, lunch and supper (Lol!) - she was doing fine.

[Hasse Wind 46]

About the DII: you got me thinking about trying that craft even in early 1917, as her diving ability is really better.

 

About the DVa: I had my greatest success in her, from Vauxcerre, June 1918. Opponents there

where almost only SPAD XIII. You can have them for breakfast, lunch and supper (Lol!) - she was doing fine.

 

I was somewhat surprised when I first tried the D.II after the D.III and D.V - it was much better than I had expected and performs really well against the Entente fighters of late 1916 and early 1917. In fact I think it's actually the Albatros that is best suited for energy tactics, because its wings can tolerate dives so well. And it's not very clumsy either. I'm having loads of fun in early 1917 with the D.II.

 

Spads often tend to be easy targets - it may be the AI doesn't quite know how to best use them. In my Pfalz campaigns, I was most confident when going against the Spads, because I knew I could even try outturn them with the Pfalz. We'll see how the new patch changes Spads and whether it makes them more dangerous in both the player's and AI's hands. :yes:

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

Olham, I was just kidding with that "poor man's Tripe" jab. I really didn't mean to run down the DR1 so much. It's actually right up there in my list of favourite planes and it's my first choice when I fly on the German side.

 

And I agree with you that they are two very different planes. The DR1 is much twitchier, and more responsive. If one takes the time to learn to control it, it's a fantastic plane. I just like the Tripe better. It's much kinder about compensating for my short-comings.

 

It's also better looking.

 

It just strikes me as strange how well-known, almost iconic, the DR1 is, particularly in popular culture, while the Sopwith Triplane is virtually unknown outside the circles of history buffs and flight simmers. You'd think that if people were focussing on the novelty of the three wings, the Tripe would get some recognition too. Perhaps it's about the association of the DR1 with von Richtofen, even though he only flew it for a short while. Perhaps it's because he died in one. Once again, I blame Snoopy.

 

In a similar vein, it's shocking how few Canadians even know who Raymond Collishaw was. Some people know Billy Bishop (but not nearly as many who would know "the Red Baron") and some remember Roy Brown, mainly because of his tenuous connection to von Richtofen. A handful might be able to name Billy Barker as a Canadian ace, but very few would know Collishaw. And poor Donald MacLaren, who had 54 victories in the Camel, more than any other pilot, is even more forgotten.

 

As a comparison, do many Germans today know Ernst Udet? Or does it begin and end with von Richtofen?

[Hasse Wind 46]

It seems to me most people hardly know what WW1 was (it's completely shadowed by WW2, and even that conflict is not nearly as well known as it should be), and if somebody happens to know something about it, it's VERY unlikely they know any pilots by name.

[Olham 164]

SvK, the majority would only name MvR as a WW1 ace and not know anyone else.

But yes, Ernst Udet is still known as a very good stunt flyer and later officer in the

Third Reich - not so much for his time as a WW1 pilot, I believe.

Then there are Immelmann and Boelke, who would be known by some people.

Not many more beyond that. You'd hardly find anyone to know Erich Loewenhardt.

 

Yes, I believe, the Dr.1 is only known so well, because it was Richthofen's last plane.

Maybe, in those days they had lots of Picture cards with MvR posing with the Dr.1.

 

Hasse Wind - you brought up an idea there: a Pfalz DIIIa campaign in a region,

where there's mainly SPAD XIII - that should be possible!

[themightysrc 5]

"It seems to me most people hardly know what WW1 was"

 

As a general comment, that could hardly be more true. I live in North West England - an area redolent with the memories and memorials of WWI. Everywhere you go you'll find plaques to the menfolk of X, Y or Z who laid down their lives, etc, etc. This is the land of 'Pals' battalions, and the roots run very deep indeed.

 

The only problem with this evocation of a people cherishing the history and feats of its forebears is that it's mostly bollocks.

 

WWII was a 'good' war, because it involved defeating fascism - simplistic, I know, but bear with me. WWI is still not seen as anything like a 'good' war because (a) lots of our brave boys (fill in your own personal choice of flowery language) got killed, (b) it's always argued that WWII was ineviable anyway - thus ignoring the actual history of the period 1918-1939 and © well, it was just so awful wasn't it?

 

What's conveniently forgotten are the *facts* of WWI, which unfortunately don't actually gel with the dark mythology of lions sent to slaughter by donkeys, and why the war was actually fought.

 

I could go on about it at length (pages, days, etc), but you probably get the picture. I recommend Huw Strachan's excellent single volume history from about 3-4 years back.

[Duce Lewis 3]

I think I've spent most of my OFF time flying the Albs and the Pfalz for the Germans. Soon I'm going to start a Fokker D.VII career (my first)

Careful there Hasse Wind!

A DVII career starts out with "You will be assimilated"

I tried out the DVII whilst totally enamored by the Se5 Viper

Tried many times to go back but the DVII is such a lovely handling crate, she just drew me back

Those nano gizmo's get in yer blood

 

Just a note on the Tripe/DR1 comparison

Whether conflict, business, or any competition, it's always advantageous to have your opponent chasing your current design while you work on the next generation

That way you stay 1 step ahead

I believe Fokker didn't suggest a triplane but was asked to design it

Time may have been better spent on it's eventual replacement

Edited August 4, 2009 by Duce Lewis

[TSmoke 2]

Olham, I was just kidding with that "poor man's Tripe" jab. I really didn't mean to run down the DR1 so much. It's actually right up there in my list of favourite planes and it's my first choice when I fly on the German side.

 

And I agree with you that they are two very different planes. The DR1 is much twitchier, and more responsive. If one takes the time to learn to control it, it's a fantastic plane. I just like the Tripe better. It's much kinder about compensating for my short-comings.

 

It's also better looking.

 

It just strikes me as strange how well-known, almost iconic, the DR1 is, particularly in popular culture, while the Sopwith Triplane is virtually unknown outside the circles of history buffs and flight simmers. You'd think that if people were focussing on the novelty of the three wings, the Tripe would get some recognition too. Perhaps it's about the association of the DR1 with von Richtofen, even though he only flew it for a short while. Perhaps it's because he died in one. Once again, I blame Snoopy.

 

In a similar vein, it's shocking how few Canadians even know who Raymond Collishaw was. Some people know Billy Bishop (but not nearly as many who would know "the Red Baron") and some remember Roy Brown, mainly because of his tenuous connection to von Richtofen. A handful might be able to name Billy Barker as a Canadian ace, but very few would know Collishaw. And poor Donald MacLaren, who had 54 victories in the Camel, more than any other pilot, is even more forgotten.

 

As a comparison, do many Germans today know Ernst Udet? Or does it begin and end with von Richtofen?

 

 

AS for Canadians not knowing diddly about what you or I would call aces, great pilots, heroes, ect.Well we have always been to damned proud to make mention of such things or to have, for lack of a better word (Heroes) to look up to and admire with pride.

 

AS a Canadian it ticks me off that our education system sucks when it comes to history especially Canadian history. The education system it seems is only allowed to teach only the marshmallow subjects that won't upset our so called multi-cultural society.

 

There is no national pride left in this country, take a mini poll on your own go to work ask ten co-workers the significance of Vimy Ridge in Canadas histroy, name 2 WW1 aces, name at least 1 WW2 ace, anything you can come up with and believe me you will be embarassed and ashamed of the answers you receive or rather don't receive.

 

Sorry for the rant, but ......

[Hasse Wind 46]

Olham:

 

Try the Alsace region. The Bavarian Jastas with the Pfalz D.IIIs are there and they face French Escadrilles mostly equipped with Spads. There shouldn't be any nasty Camels down there either.

 

Duce Lewis:

 

I've flown the D.VII a few times in QC, and each time I kicked the Entente's ass. I guess I've been avoiding the D.VII campaigns because I'm afraid it's going to be too easy to shoot down all the crumpets! (As if anything is easy OFF...) Looking forward to it.

 

Themightysrc:

 

I actually read that Strachan's book earlier this year, and it was probably the best single volume history of WW1 I've read. I understand he has written a lot about WW1, but I haven't read any of his other works.

 

Most people are just too occupied by their every day life and issues to have any serious interest in history. It's a shame really, because everything and everybody has roots in the past and if you don't see them or know about them, it's more difficult to understand why things are the way they are today. I was fortunate to always have good history teachers who knew how to make those ancient things seem interesting and relevant. That is not always the case, and many people leave school thinking history is one of those useless and extremely boring subjects they are forced to study without benefiting from it in any way.

[Canvas Wings 1]

No offense to all of you in the Camels and SE5as, but I don't understand why everyone's favourite plane isn't the Sopwith Triplane. It's just so truly, utterly, nifty.

 

I'm on your wing with that one, Schitzel. The Tripe is my favourite mount edging out the Camel & DVII ...though I'm hoping for the Snipe to someday put in an appearance. As a fellow Canuck, I've always been an admirer of Collishaw & the Black Flight as well. I've sometimes wondered what the rough percentage of Allied pilots were from Canada. It seems disproportionate that out of the 12 top scoring pilots of the war, (50+ vitories) 4 were Canadians....

CW

[Cameljockey 3]

For you Tripe lovers. Here's a great video, not sure where it was taken (maybe Old Warden?) but starting at 1:04 there are some nice shots of a twice barrelled Tripe.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLdhhrkPa6w

 

CJ

[Olham 164]

Canvas Wings: It seems disproportionate that out of the 12 top scoring pilots of the war, (50+ vitories) 4 were Canadians....

 

1 Germany Richthofen, Manfred Freiherr von 80

2 France Fonck, René Paul 75

3 Canada Bishop, William Avery 72

4 Germany Udet, Ernst 62

5 England Mannock, Edward Corringham 61

6 Canada Collishaw, Raymond 60

7 England McCudden, James Thomas Byford 57

8 South Africa Beauchamp-Proctor, Andrew 54

9 Germany Loewenhardt (Löwenhardt), Erich 54

10 Canada MacLaren, Donald Roderick 54

11 France Guynemer, Georges 53

12 Canada Barker, William George 50

13 Germany Jacobs, Josef Carl Peter 48

14 Germany Voss, Werner 48

15 Australia Little, Robert Alexander 47

Edited August 5, 2009 by Olham

[badgerboy 0]

AS for Canadians not knowing diddly about what you or I would call aces, great pilots, heroes, ect.Well we have always been to damned proud to make mention of such things or to have, for lack of a better word (Heroes) to look up to and admire with pride.

 

AS a Canadian it ticks me off that our education system sucks when it comes to history especially Canadian history. The education system it seems is only allowed to teach only the marshmallow subjects that won't upset our so called multi-cultural society.

 

There is no national pride left in this country, take a mini poll on your own go to work ask ten co-workers the significance of Vimy Ridge in Canadas histroy, name 2 WW1 aces, name at least 1 WW2 ace, anything you can come up with and believe me you will be embarassed and ashamed of the answers you receive or rather don't receive.

 

Sorry for the rant, but ......

 

 

TS- I think that's true everywhere. Those of us on this forum are of course big-time military history buffs or we would have never known how cool it is to simulate WWI air combat. Most people are either living completely in the moment or looking ahead but never back.

 

Here in the US, I could ask 100 random citizens who Eddie Rickenbacker was and I'd get at least 98 blank stares, guaranteed. Same for Richard Bong, even here in his home state of Wisconsin.

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

For you Tripe lovers. Here's a great video, not sure where it was taken (maybe Old Warden?) but starting at 1:04 there are some nice shots of a twice barrelled Tripe.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLdhhrkPa6w

 

CJ

 

Thanks CJ. I'd seen that before, but had forgotten how good it was.

 

The Tripe really was a handsome bird, I think. I like the functional elegance of it. It reminds me a bit of a Triumph TR4 or TR6.

 

Again, comparing the two triplanes, I like the look of the DR1, but too me it's just a little too pointy in places. It's also got that half cowling that makes it look a bit buck-toothed in front. Again, I'm not running the DR1 down because it's one of my favourite planes. I just prefer the Tripe.

 

I don't know if it was the just the sound quality in that video, but that motor sounded a bit shakey, and that was under ideal circumstances. It must have taken nerves of steel to fly a plane from that era into battle, knowing that the engine might give out at any time, or the wings might fall off if you got too frisky. Then there's the little matter of people shooting at you with machine guns while you're protected by nothing more than a layer of canvas.

 

And when you crashed, it wasn't to the desktop.

 

Watching videos really brings home the fragility of those old planes in a way that's a lot more real than just reading about it or playing a simulation.

[Schnitzel von Krumm 0]

Here in the US, I could ask 100 random citizens who Eddie Rickenbacker was and I'd get at least 98 blank stares

 

He's that popcorn guy, isn't he?

[Dej 17]

I don't know if it was the just the sound quality in that video, but that motor sounded a bit shakey, and that was under ideal circumstances. It must have taken nerves of steel to fly a plane from that era into battle, knowing that the engine might give out at any time, or the wings might fall off if you got too frisky. Then there's the little matter of people shooting at you with machine guns while you're protected by nothing more than a layer of canvas.

 

And when you crashed, it wasn't to the desktop.

 

Watching videos really brings home the fragility of those old planes in a way that's a lot more real than just reading about it or playing a simulation.

 

What really took nerves of steel was flying the DH2. The rotary engines were of very poor quality and quite often would just throw off a cylinder, which stood a good chance of cutting through a tail boom. So common was the problem that it was given a name 'Cylindritis'. Moreover, the only protection a DH2 pilot had against attack from behind was that same engine, which if hit by a bullet was even more likely to throw bits off. Be thankful that the DH2 in OFF at least doesn't do that, pig though it is in every other respect.