What's the magic flying WW1 Aircraft over WW2 aircraft?

[Olham 164]

The "magic of WW1 planes" might be

 

- that they can fly at all

- that you can survive the flight in one piece

 

(Sorry, couldn't resist! )

[JFM 18]

Pretty cool, Jim. As an aside, there may be others that are louder but a hovering Harrier is the loudest airplane I've personally heard. Maybe because the noise is sustained, as opposed to a full burner takeoff where the planes quickly depart. I was close to a Harrier doing some extended hovering and slow-speed maneuvering at WPAFB in 1980 that was deafening, and all others at airshows have been the same. My family were holding their ears as a Harrier hovered at an airshow a few years back but I was reveling in the sonic glory! Although being half-deaf from rock and roll, it wasn't as loud to me.

Edited July 4, 2016 by JFM

[Hauksbee 103]

 ACH2 was a great pusher plane which control well.The problem with pushers was that te engine in the rear made a very good target for WW1 planes with low firepower.

But the pusher engines served as excellent armor for the pilot and fuel, albeit at the cost of the engine itself.

[JimAttrill 24]

I must tell you how I accidentally 'flew' a Harrier.  After some engine engine work we would have to take the aircraft to the far end of the runway and chain it down in a special enclosure where the gases from the nozzles down would be ducted away.  There was also a armoured glass room where you could watch it all happening.   Quite a performance especially as we had to arrange for a foam fire truck to be there just in case anything went wrong.  I was on the line one day and we had to do 'acceleration checks' on an engine but didn't want to go through all that hoo-hah which took hours and hours and we were on night shift.  So I did what a few guys had done, run the engine up in the chocks, put the nozzles down and slam the throttle while watching a stop watch.   IIRC it had to go from idle to 100% in 9.5 seconds (all jet engines accelerate quite slowly).   So in I get and try this.   Of course I am not looking outside and have hands and feet off the controls except the nozzle and the throttle with the left hand.  I heard a bit of shouting on the intercom from the guy outside and looked out and realised I was hovering at about 3ft high.  Slammed the throttle shut and settled back into the chocks.  End of heart attack. 

 

I had assumed the aircraft had full fuel which was their normal state, normally 5000lbs or so.   This one had very little in it, so it took off.   It did show one thing - the Harrier was very stable in the hover 'hands off'.   Often hard to work on, but all fighters were.  I really loved that aircraft. 

Edited July 6, 2016 by JimAttrill

[JFM 18]

WHAT a great story! Thanks for sharing, I love those kinds of reads.

[Olham 164]

Thanks for the insight, Jim - a great story indeed!

[Hauksbee 103]

You guys on the night shift...!

[JimAttrill 24]

Yeah, night shift was the place to be.  No zobbits around and we could be very efficient.   We would only have a couple of guys of each trade and would help each other out so we could knock off early. 

 

I could tell you a story about being in charge of the 'swing shift' (12 pm to 7am) that would make your hair stand on end.   I suppose the statute of limitations means they can't court martial me now

[JFM 18]

After three decades of playing in rock bands and working as a flight instructor, nothing makes my hair stand on end anymore!  So damn the censors and full speed ahead! Maybe add it to The Lost Thread over at SHQ, too.

[Olham 164]

You could write it like a story, Jim - a colleague of mine, who's name I have forgotten, happend to witness this one day...

[JimAttrill 24]

Well here goes. I had been a 'liney' on 4 Squadron Harriers in Germany.  Servicing was in four stages - 1st line did the refuelling rearming etc and also had guys in 'the hangar' as we called it who did everything up to engine changes.

2nd 3rd and 4th line were those boring 8 to 5 people who did major services etc and had tea breaks.  On 'the line' you drank tea or coffee when you could.  So after 2½ years in Germany they sent me back to RAF Wittering, the Harrier base at the time.   As a Cpl engine fitter I should have gone into the 'hangar' but this was 233 OCU and they didn't like us guys who had been at the 'sharp end'.   So they put me on the line, but as 2 i/c to a Sgt.  I had 21 mechanics under me.  (a mechanic had 9 months training and a fitter as I was had a minimum of 2 years apprenticeship).   I hated being in charge as all it meant was that when an aircraft came in I had to send out two guys to 'see it in' and others to refuel etc.  I wasn't allowed to do any real work.  After a while of making myself as unpopular as possible they put me in charge of the 'swing shift'.

 

This shift was from 12pm to 7am when there was a handover to the day shift.   There were only 3 of us on this shift, me as an engine fitter, an electrician and an amourer.  The others had to check the gun firing circuits and such.  I had to check the fuel and oil in each aircraft and top up the Liquid Oxygen.  Also look down the intakes for birds nests, spanners and such like.  Actually refilling the LOX was an airframe job but I ended up being qualified to do that as well to avoid having to have an extra guy on the shift.  I had to sign for the fuel load and the LOX and then 'oversign' the others as I was the only NCO around. 

 

As you may guess, this shift was made up of 'bad boys' so we got on well together.   One problem was that the bar shut at 11pm and it was easy to go to work having had a few beers. 

 

One night the armourer decided he was leaving the mob and took our vehicle which was an Austin minivan (not to be confused with the minivans they have in the US which are huge in comparison).   So off he drove in the car on his way to London and freedom.  Unfortunately he couldn't drive and somehow managed to hit a tree with it.  Anyway, he brought it back.   The next day I went to the Motor Transport yard and explained to the Sgt in charge that I had accidentally driven the car into one of the support I-beams in the hangar.  I don't think he believed me but I had to be the driver as I was the only one with a licence.  

 

A couple of days later I also decided I had had enough (and lots of beer) and didn't even go to work at all.   The other guys did my part of the work and forged my signature on the required forms!   They told the incoming day shift that I had been taken sick and had gone home early.   The list of crimes committed including doing tasks not qualified to do, impersonating an NCO, all this apart from the forgeries.   I suppose we could all have been shot at dawn or something like that.    

 

The Forms concerned were the holy Form 700 which was the complete history of the aircraft, who did what and when etc.   I never ever heard of  similar forgeries happening.

 

Anyway I 'bought myself out' of the RAF about 6 weeks later.   This cost me two hundred pounds - a lot of money in 1973 and was officially to pay back for the training received.

[Olham 164]

Geeze - seems you were really in the "black sheep department" there!

Could you make any civil use of what you had learned there, Jim?

[Hauksbee 103]

Could you make any civil use of what you had learned there, Jim?

There's always a demand for a good forger, and other fly-by-night skills. If they come after you, Jim, deny everything. We'll back you up.

[JimAttrill 24]

I learnt early in the RAF how to get away with stuff....  I did 2 years training at RAF Halton as an engine fitter and was then sent to 115 Sqn which did 'flight checking' ie checking ILS and other radio and radar stuff.  We had old Vickers Varsity aircraft which I loved because I could get covered in oil    Then we got a few Argosy aircraft (as in my avatar) and I was offered the job of the world!  They would send me to Changi in Singapore to look after the aircraft which would follow me out there.  I would be there for 3 months.  The really stupid thing was that the aircraft crew were officers and Sgts but I was at the time a very junior Junior Technician without a stripe to my name.  There was a thought to make me a 'temporary Sergeant' but that was out of the question.  So I flew in a VC10 to Changi and waited for my Argosy to arrive.  But before it arrived I had charge of an air-conditioned office next to the line and a Land Rover.  Every day I would pick up the Land Rover and go to the swimming pool and spend a nice day.  The Argosy had a very noticeable whistling noise so I would know when it arrived.  And so it did, and I spent a wonderful time looking after it with no supervision.  I had to occasionally get a SNCO from some other place to 'oversign' work that I had done.  In this time I flew in the aircraft to Hong Kong and Gan in the Maldives. 

 

So came the day that the aircraft headed off back to the UK.  I still had the airconditioned office and the Land Rover and was having a wonderful time.  I had developed a friend in the 'movements' section and found that there were lots of guys who had been in Singapore for over 3 years who were dying to go home.  So I got him to bounce me off all the flights in their favour.  After two weeks I was sitting in my 'office' drinking tea which I could get from the cafe next door by banging on the wall, and I answered "115 Squadron detachment Junior Technician Attrill speaking".  The man on the other end said that he was an Air Vice Marshal in charge of Signals in the Far East Air Force and my home station in the UK were asking what had become of me.  (this is before emails and such so they had sent a signal) I told him that I was being bounced off the aircraft back to the UK and he then told me that I was a priority one passenger (I didn't know that).  He then very nicely suggested that I get on the next plane out.   Which I did, of course. 

 

Funny really as I was the lowest rank technician in the RAF and he was the equivalent of a Major General in the Army.   Anyway I arrived back in the UK and they sent me on two weeks leave because I had done such a grand job!

 

I did another 3 month detachment there later in the same way and that put me off the UK for ever.   I applied for 'overseas' and they sent me to Germany for 2½ years and I loved that as well.