Marineflieger-Albatros from MFJ 1

[Olham 164]

No, this was started before; so it was easier to finish.

I won't have time for the seaplane before the weekend.

[Dej 17]

The word "eala" is Old Friesisch - it must exist in Old English too.

 

It does, it means 'Hail!' as German 'Heil!'

 

From the poem 'Christ' by the Anglo-Saxon poet Cynewulf, found in the Exeter Book...

 

"Eala Earendel, engla beorhtast,

ofer middangeard monnum sended,

ond soðfæsta sunnan leoma,

torht ofer tunglas, þu tida gehwane

of sylfum þe symle inlihtes!"

 

"Hail Earendel, brightest of angels,

over middle-earth sent to men,

and the sun's radiance of truth,

of brilliance exceeding the stars, you each season

by yourself illuminate!"

 

And therein the inspiration for Tolkien's hero, Eärendil the Mariner, in the Silmarillion

 

Anyway, back to topic, wishing you luck with that backplate Olham... you could leave it as default plywood without it looking any the poorer.

[Olham 164]

Thanks for the poem and explanation, Dej.

Then the word exists in both old languages, but means something different.

In Friesisch, it means "Stand up tall" more or less, as the opposite to "kneel down" -

showing your devotion to a king, you had to kneel down in those days.

The Friesen never did that - they refused to have any kings, and even beat one in

a battle. Another motto there is "Lewer dood as slav!" (Rather dead than slave!)

 

The back part on the Albatros is indeed difficult. But I have an idea - I will place a white

part with squares like math paper there - then I can see how it gets distorted.

[Bullethead 12]

The back part on the Albatros is indeed difficult. But I have an idea - I will place a white part with squares like math paper there - then I can see how it gets distorted.

 

From what I can tell, it's at least partially the usual distortion caused by a flat texture being applied to a curved surface. The texture used for a given piece has the same X-Y dimensions, but obviously has no Z dimension. This works fine as long as the surface you're texturing is pretty much flat, but when it's curved, the texture has to stretch in the Z direction to fit it onto the surface. The greater the angle between the plane of the texture and the surface of the model, the more stretching you get.

 

 

[Dej 17]

From what I can tell, it's at least partially the usual distortion caused by a flat texture being applied to a curved surface. The texture used for a given piece has the same X-Y dimensions, but obviously has no Z dimension. This works fine as long as the surface you're texturing is pretty much flat, but when it's curved, the texture has to stretch in the Z direction to fit it onto the surface. The greater the angle between the plane of the texture and the surface of the model, the more stretching you get.

 

 

 

That is indeed true and when the surface in question tapers, as most fuselages do, then the distortion is inconstant. Thus, though the back plate is represented rectangularly on the skin what is actually used on the model is a section of that rectangle. The challenge is finding which is the section and how much distortion to apply to the skin in order to compensate for the inconstant distortion of the tapering surface.

[Olham 164]

It's not that easy Bullethead.

Dej, the backplate is NOT represented rectangular; it's the part at the top of the skin bmp,

and then only a little part of that (strangely).

If it was only about a normal constant distortion, it would be simple. But when I did that,

I got the pattern fields GROWING towards the tail, where they should have been rather

smaller than the front ones.

I think, they have first distorted the part perspectively that way, that the part grew SMALLER

towards the front. And then they may have stretched the frontpart in width.

I'm too tired now - may get on with it the next evenings.

[Dej 17]

Dej, the backplate is NOT represented rectangular; it's the part at the top of the skin bmp,

and then only a little part of that (strangely).

If it was only about a normal constant distortion, it would be simple. But when I did that,

I got the pattern fields GROWING towards the tail, where they should have been rather

smaller than the front ones.

I think, they have first distorted the part perspectively that way, that the part grew SMALLER

towards the front. And then they may have stretched the frontpart in width.

I'm too tired now - may get on with it the next evenings.

 

My bad. I was thinking of the Fokker DVII skins. I was having the same problem with the backplate trying to skin Sachsenburg's late war black and yellow diamond-checkered DVII.

 

This beastie:

[Bullethead 12]

If it was only about a normal constant distortion, it would be simple. But when I did that, I got the pattern fields GROWING towards the tail, where they should have been rather smaller than the front ones.

 

I think, they have first distorted the part perspectively that way, that the part grew SMALLER towards the front. And then they may have stretched the frontpart in width.

 

I have a suggestion..... When all else fails, HIDE THE PROBLEM .

 

I've only fiddle with this a little on my end, but combing that with what you're saying, I suspect it might not be possible to get a perfect match for the whole fuselage length. You'll probably be able to get it close enough in several places but the other places will never work out right.

 

So say you've got the top of the fuselage as 1 piece, but can only match it here and there with separate pieces on the sides, which can't be made to match up with each other. What you do is, you match things up as well as possible say just behind the cockpit and in front of the tail. In between, you wrap a solid color band all around the fuselage as a personal marking. I've been known to resort to such dodges .

 

Speaking of aggravations skinning D.VIIs, here's one that gave me fits for a while. I was trying to get the rib lines to match up on the lower surface of the horizontal tail and elevator, plus make them line up with the upper surface lines, but no matter what I did, it seemed to get worse. Then I finally hit on marking all the parts.

 

 

 

No wonder I was having problems. The left elevator goes with the right stabilizer, and vice versa, plus the stabilizer is mirrored backwards. But as you see, I've got it sorted out now

Edited September 1, 2009 by Bullethead

[Olham 164]

Dej and Bullethead,

I recommend to make square math paper linings on a white part,

plus additional numbers or colour dots, to find how what a specific part will

work in the sim, and if it's distorted. Make screenshots, and import them into

the skin file you work on.

Then you keep that part on a separate layer, to work after it.

 

That DVII looks great, Dej - and may give you some headache. But when you

get it right, you'll have quite something to show off with here.

 

Bullet, I don't give up easy - before I use "evasive moves", I will confront the

problem from several angles, before I may give up.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

I feel your pain guys. I have spent many hours trying to sort out the odd distortions and weird wraps on some of these models. I cut my teeth in the OFF venue on the Strutter, and that one was quite the learning experience as well. Here is the image of the bmp file for that plane in the post over at the paint fourm:

Some Skins Are Really Hard

 

Olham, you are very right about being sure to work in many layers. And stick with it until you succeed, or until you just can't take it any more and then get creative with your personal markings as BH suggested. Wouldn't be the first time for me on that tactic.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Olham 164]

Thanks for the heads up, Lou, and that link.

I see, the Alb is not the only tricky skin. Does the model form make such distortions necessary?

[RAF_Louvert 101]

You are more than welcome Olham. I think what makes such distortions a reality is the combination of a 3d model that we are then attempting to wrap with a "flat" electronic sheet of images. Depending on the placement of a particular "part" on the sheet and how that part lays onto the model will determine what type and how much distortion you will have. And, as you have already discovered, the distortion will not always stay constant but can actually change exponentially as you move along the model. That is why working in many layers is an absolute necessity. That and a fair amount of patience...and possibly alcoholic beverages.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Olham 164]

...and a fair amount of patience...and possibly alcoholic beverages.

 

Hmmm - I knew, I was in a disadvantage there: I gave up any alcohol.

My life is a bit more orderly and better organized since - and much more boring (Lol!)

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Well then, we have something else in common Olham. I gave up the ways of the grain and the grape about 25 years ago at this point. I missed it a bit at first, but soon found out I could have just as much fun without it, (and wake up the next morning without the headache and with a lot more money left in my wallet). I'll still take a taster's sip of wine or beer every now and then when someone is raving about one they just discovered, otherwise it's an iced tea or an "Arnold Palmer" for me. I joke about drinking a fair bit, and I do have many personal experiences from the past to fall back on for that humor, some of which I remember better than others.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[Bullethead 12]

Here is the image of the bmp file for that plane in the post over at the paint fourm:

 

Yeah, that's quite a monster. I've had all those problems in one game or another, but not all at once .

 

And folks wonder why skinners don't just give their templates away......