A picture for Paarma

[Olham 164]

Hi, Paarma

Here seem to be the old green-mauve-green camos, and the Lozenge pattern on the front craft.

Can you tell me, who's fighter the first one was - the one with the two colour bands around the fuselage?

 

 

Edited September 23, 2009 by Olham

[+Paarma 0]

As amazing it was to me how few colorschemes are known of jasta 11 especially albatros dv´s. The Ltn. von der Osten form jasta 11 sayd: Useally pilots borrowed and repainted the a/c:s so he even didnt remember what colors he usead. The dv´s was painted nose red and the tail personal color. Sometimes also part of the fuselage. You see these from off dv skins. There were also different variations of lonzenge wings or green/mauve. Mostly dva´s was factory build using lozenge.

 

It is sayd in osprey´s book that the first dv in picture could be possible flown Wilhelm "Willi" Reinhard. Second dv in picture is oltn. Franz Müller´s. The white tail on the third is unknown, possible also ltn. von Schönebecks lilac tail dv. Last is von linsingen´s. It had no visible markings and was probably factory build colors when picture was taken.

But if you look the albatros dv and dva .dds files of jasta 11. Most and more are there with ace name included. But like i sayd there were only few known dv or dva markings, so most are fictional, but very carefully thinked over, be based on pilots other a/c markings, colors he usead, regiment colors pilot was before joined jasta etc.

 

 

 

 

Hi, Paarma

Here seem to be the old green-mauve-green camos, and the Lozenge pattern on the front craft.

Can you tell me, who's fighter the first one was - the one with the two colour bands around the fuselage?

 

 

[Olham 164]

Thanks for the skin picture, Paarma. That's interesting, that in such a most exposed

Jasta like Jasta 11 was, they still don't know all the colours, or who's craft this was.

 

My personal guess for the fuselage bands after the b/w photo was blue/red.

[+Paarma 0]

My guess would be same green/red than the next Müllers. There was not much paint available in ww1. Most common paint color was probably black and white whitch was usead paint iron crosses, meaby green and mauve that was usead in wings, and silver that was usead in pfalzes. Also green/gray paint that was usead to paint dv´s cowlings. Blue and red is sayd sometimes stolen from conquered allied aerodromes. Also some yellow was usead, not sure where that came from. Surely there was got most paints from german factories, but there were much lack of the materials in war time for sure.

 

Thanks for the skin picture, Paarma. That's interesting, that in such a most exposed

Jasta like Jasta 11 was, they still don't know all the colours, or who's craft this was.

 

My personal guess for the fuselage bands after the b/w photo was blue/red.

[Olham 164]

Yes, green/red would be possible too.

I read in Kilduff's book about MvR, that the Red Baron himself had problems of getting

enough red colour for painting his craft - red colour was not produced in large amounts,

and I assume the same for yellow.

I used to have an old paint colour chart from 1954 (hope I'll find it again), and there where only

very few "shiny" colours. It had a light yellow with white in, and a Chrome yellow; 1 orange,

3 reds (incl. wine-red), but several greens and browns and sand type colours - the colours used

for house and garden, I'd say. Bright shiny colours where just not used much, even later.

[+Paarma 0]

Interesting info. Probably shining chrome colors doest have some much use and the cost of paint was probably more expensive.

Jasta 10 is sayd to use chrome yellow in a/c:s noses as their jasta markings. MFJ usead that "light yellow". jasta 34 used same chrome silver than was usead in factory pfalz d.III´s. Pilots often is noted to use silver markings, example Degelow sayd jasta 40 usead black fuselage and silver personal emblems, but most of the profiles i have seen and the historians sayd it was actually white that the pilots most usead. My feeling is that the pilots really could use for emblems and other little parts that silver paint, becourse it probably looked better and shining other than white.

Example the jasta 5 pilots usead green tails but many is told to use silver gray fuselage. Not sure was it same silver paint that was in usead in pfalz d.III´s. Makes me wonder also was the silver paint similar in pfalz d.III´s and nieuports?

 

Cheers

 

Arto

 

 

 

Yes, green/red would be possible too.

I read in Kilduff's book about MvR, that the Red Baron himself had problems of getting

enough red colour for painting his craft - red colour was not produced in large amounts,

and I assume the same for yellow.

I used to have an old paint colour chart from 1954 (hope I'll find it again), and there where only

very few "shiny" colours. It had a light yellow with white in, and a Chrome yellow; 1 orange,

3 reds (incl. wine-red), but several greens and browns and sand type colours - the colours used

for house and garden, I'd say. Bright shiny colours where just not used much, even later.

[Olham 164]

Following the logistic supply logic, I would think, the silver was all the same on German side:

the Pfalz Silberbronze, which was certainly supplied to the front, to repair aircraft, and give

them a new coat of the colour.

In the Third Reich, one of the Luftwaffe painting colours was Silver. It's a silver bronze, not at

all shiny chrome like on cars, but more like a light grey with metal grain in it.

I have a colour chart of the RLM colours of WW2, and I'm pretty certain, that many of them haven't

changed since WW1.

The French of course had an own factory production, but surely, their silver bronze was made in a

similar way and tone.

When I find my RLM colour chart, I will try to pin down the red, yellow, blue and green in CMYK.

Perhaps you want to know what comes out?

[Hasse Wind 46]

Couldn't you get those old colour charts from art museums or archives or something? (I know nothing about such colour things, just a thought that came to my mind...)

 

It sure would be easier to distinguish those paints if colour photographs had been more common in WW1. The French were the pioneers of colour photography and most of WW1 colour photos are of French origin. But I haven't seen many such pictures taken of aircraft. I imagine it can often be practically impossible to see accurately what kind of paint was in use when you look at old black and white photos.

[+Paarma 0]

Yes it is only way to try to make ideas of old b&w photos. The german lozenge wing parts is survived some but i think the problem is to get the real colors when over 90 years old fabrics are quite faded.

There is lot of knowledge in the aerodrome forum. Example Dan-San Abbott knows lot of it. But just searching old topics of lozenge or german colors, im sure you find lot info.

Yes i have imagine the silver paint not just like chrome today but less shining. Meaby Olham the paint they usead ww2 was quite same, who knows. Even the aircrafts develop much during 20-30´s

 

Couldn't you get those old colour charts from art museums or archives or something? (I know nothing about such colour things, just a thought that came to my mind...)

 

It sure would be easier to distinguish those paints if colour photographs had been more common in WW1. The French were the pioneers of colour photography and most of WW1 colour photos are of French origin. But I haven't seen many such pictures taken of aircraft. I imagine it can often be practically impossible to see accurately what kind of paint was in use when you look at old black and white photos.

 

Yes bring em on! I wanna know more.

 

Following the logistic supply logic, I would think, the silver was all the same on German side:

the Pfalz Silberbronze, which was certainly supplied to the front, to repair aircraft, and give

them a new coat of the colour.

In the Third Reich, one of the Luftwaffe painting colours was Silver. It's a silver bronze, not at

all shiny chrome like on cars, but more like a light grey with metal grain in it.

I have a colour chart of the RLM colours of WW2, and I'm pretty certain, that many of them haven't

changed since WW1.

The French of course had an own factory production, but surely, their silver bronze was made in a

similar way and tone.

When I find my RLM colour chart, I will try to pin down the red, yellow, blue and green in CMYK.

Perhaps you want to know what comes out?

[Olham 164]

Okay, I just found the file of the RLM Colours; I had them already done a year ago.

So, here they come.

 

 

[+Paarma 0]

Thanks Olham. Ill take a look. Remember that actually you cant use strate the right color even it would be historical in game, otherwise the colors look too bright and arcade in the air.

Probably in real life the clouds, light and fog would fade the brightness in the colors, but that just not happen all the way in game, even we have all those 3 aspects included.

 

Cheers

 

Arto

 

 

 

Okay, I just found the file of the RLM Colours; I had them already done a year ago.

So, here they come.

 

 

[Olham 164]

That's right; a craft in a distance of 20 meters might already appear with a brightness of 15 - 20 %,

and further away, it would be 25 - 30 % I'd say.

Also, yellow "dies" first, then orange, then red. The further away, the more blue every colour turns.

 

The light blue undersides of my WW2 models I always mixed with white to get much brighter, cause

a model in a scale of 1:48 would appear like being 20 - 30 meters away.

[+Paarma 0]

Good point. I useally just trust my eye´s, what look good is enough good. I have artist method to do skins, not best for the skinners. I useally do somehow same parts different way to many skins.

It didnt help be anyway eather that im quite badly color blind. Lol. i had to many times remove wrong color spots even i havent noticed those, but other teammember does :).

 

 

 

That's right; a craft in a distance of 20 meters might already appear with a brightness of 15 - 20 %,

and further away, it would be 25 - 30 % I'd say.

Also, yellow "dies" first, then orange, then red. The further away, the more blue every colour turns.

 

The light blue undersides of my WW2 models I always mixed with white to get much brighter, cause

a model in a scale of 1:48 would appear like being 20 - 30 meters away.

[Rooster89 0]

Good point. I useally just trust my eye´s, what look good is enough good. I have artist method to do skins, not best for the skinners. I useally do somehow same parts different way to many skins.

It didnt help be anyway eather that im quite badly color blind. Lol. i had to many times remove wrong color spots even i havent noticed those, but other teammember does :).

 

 

 

 

 

Lol. I'm only partially colorblind Paarma, but I know what thats like. I just finished a skin of an all blue Dr.1, saved it, and loaded up OFF to check it out in the skies. My sister walks past and says sarcastically , "Nice plane." I said, "Whats wrong with it?", "ITS PURPLE!!."

 

-Rooster

[Olham 164]

Well, if it was the purple of the Purple Heart - why not?

Perhaps you should show it here?

We could tell you then, if it needs a touch in this or that direction.

[+Paarma 0]

Hi Rooster. Known problem... The photoshop rbg values help to make right color example that blue and remove the red. What cant our eye´s see the numbers cover it. :)

 

Lol. I'm only partially colorblind Paarma, but I know what thats like. I just finished a skin of an all blue Dr.1, saved it, and loaded up OFF to check it out in the skies. My sister walks past and says sarcastically , "Nice plane." I said, "Whats wrong with it?", "ITS PURPLE!!."

 

-Rooster

[carrick58 23]

Althought I cannot prove it. Id had heard somewhere that the silver color on the Pflaz was part of a frabic treatment not just a color of choice. Anyone else ever hear that?