a flight in 1918

[carrick58 23]

Took up my American pilot General Motors on a Patrol of the lines flight in a Spad XIII, France 1918. Its choatic at best ran up to 8000ft and was jumped by 2 flights of 4 a/c Albatross D-3s? D V s ? or D V a The three Spads did well in sissors fighting. Couldnt do Boom and zoom because of the other Hun flight above so ended in the weeds. Noticed my number 2 s engine on fire and huns coming down so did a spiraling turn nose high engine at full power. I was hopeing to turn tight enough to lead the hun fighters, but lost control and spun into the ground. 2 low and 2 slow ? 1918 is crazy.

[Bullethead 12]

1918 is crazy.

 

Yeah, but in a good way . I like it there .

[Rickitycrate 10]

I've been flying the Spad XIII a lot lately. She's a nice bird but the Huns are all over the place in those late Alb's and Fokker DVII anf Tripes. The speed and manuoverability is fantastic compared to 2 years previous. Very fast paced and unpredictable action

[Olham 164]

Carrick, if you need to get out and away, the SPAD XIII is the best crate to have.

Next time you are low, and Germans above you, try to escape to the most free direction

without climbing. When they chase you, fly zigzag as much as you can.

At 8.000 feet, you would even have space to dive away fast and steep - another good

point in the SPAD.

You are flying a 200 hp craft - the fastes one out there. So, if you can evade their rounds

long enough, you will leave them behind you as little dots.

Now you could even climb and return, to fight them from above - if you wanted.

[Bullethead 12]

And if all else fails, the SPAD XIII can out-turn the Fokker D.VII, although at low speeds it can't go vertical as well.

[Olham 164]

Are you sure about that? It may be possible against the AI, but try the D VII then,

and you'll outturn the SPAD, I think.

[Bullethead 12]

Are you sure about that? It may be possible against the AI, but try the D VII then,

and you'll outturn the SPAD, I think.

 

My experience is from both sides. As I'm seeing it, the SPAD XIII can out-turn a D.VII at all speeds, whether I or the AI is flying it. However, the SPAD XIII loses its vertical ability sooner than the D.VII (which doesn't ever seem to lose it). This is measured by how much height you gain in a zoom from a given starting speed. Above about 80 knots, the SPAD XIII can out-zoom the D.VII, although the D.VII can hang on its prop at the top and still nail a higher-zooming SPAD if the starting speeds are close to 80 knots. Between about 80-70 knots, they go about the same height but the D.VII's prop-hanging ability gives it a significant edge. Below about 70 knots, the D.VII really out-zooms the SPAD XIII. But all this time, right down to stall speed, the SPAD XIII can turn inside the D.VII at the same speed.

 

So, if you're in a SPAD XIII and are fighting D.VIIs, you want to keep the fight at high speeds where you have advantages in both zoom and turn. But if you slow down, all is not lost. You can just switch styles and fly like you're in a Pup vs. an Albatros D.III.

 

If you're in the D.VII, you want to sucker the SPAD XIII to blow its speed. You can't quite turn with him then, but you can outzoom him, so you fly in the vertical doing half-Cuban-8s and such while he more or less circles below you. Under no circumstances should try to flat-turn against a SPAD XIII, because he'll get around faster than you and end up on your butt. But the cool thing is, the D.VII can do respectable zooms and prop hangs at ridiculously low speeds, so you can take your vertical fight down to zero altitude. IOW, you have no hard deck in an engagement.

 

The D.VII isn't the best at anything (except maybe low-speed zooms and prop-hangs), but it's very good across the board. Most other planes are good in only 1 or 2 areas and noticeably worse in others. Thus, most other planes only have 1 major fighting style which plays to their strength and if that doesn't work a certain adversary, they're in for a hard time. The D.VII, OTOH, is a jack-of-all-trades. No adversariy's forte is significantly better than the D.VII's capability in that area, and the D.VII can usually do several things better than its opponent. Thus, the D.VII pilot can pick tactics suited to fighting particular types of enemy planes, and if you do that right, you have the advantage in the fight no matter what you're facing.

[Olham 164]

Great introduction into the D VII, which I haven't flown yet - only know the SPAD so far.

[Bullethead 12]

Great introduction into the D VII, which I haven't flown yet - only know the SPAD so far.

 

Well, to be more specific, the D.VII faced 3 main enemy fighters: Lots of SPAD XIIIs, lots of SE5s, and a lesser number of Camels. There are also a large number of Brisfits about but we have a "live and let live" understanding and go our separate ways.

 

Compared to the enemy scouts, the D.VII stacks up like this (IMHO):

 

Speed

The D.VII is somewhat slower than the SPAD XIII and SE5 on the level and significantly slower in dives, but is somewhat faster than the Camel in both areas. IOW, the Camel is the only plane the D.VII can disengage from using speed. However, if the SPADs and SEs aren't much higher than you are, it'll take them a fair amount of time to run you down. This is only useful as you 1st approach the lines, however, where you still have a reasonably clear line of retreat run back to flak concentrations and friendly flights. Once at or across the lines, in 1918 there's generally no such thing as a clear line of retreat although sometimes you get lucky. So be aware that once you're near the lines, if you get into a fight with SPADs and SE5s, generally you only survive by killing them all.

 

Turn

The D.VII can't turn with the SPAD XIII or the Camel, although it out-turns the SE5.

 

High-Speed Zooms

The SPAD is considerably better at this than the D.VII, and the SE5-Viper is slightly better. Regular SE5s are about the same as the D.VII, and the D.VII is considerably better than the Camel.

 

Low-Speed Zooms

The D.VII is all over the Camel and SPAD XIII here, somewhat better than the regular SE5, and about equal with the Viper SE5.

 

Roll Rate

The Camel is the best, then the SE5s, then the D.VII, and then the SPAD.

 

Sustained Climb

If you have the time and space available to try to outclimb your enemy (rare commodities in 1918), this only works against the Camel and SPAD above about 6,000 feet. Below that, the SPAD is your equal and the Camel is better. Regular SE5s are about the same as you all the way up and the Vipers are a bit better. Besides, I've found that you really don't want to get much above 13,000 feet anyway--above that, the D.VII can't go fast enough to fight very effectively. Note that this is rather low by 1918 standards.

 

So, bottom line.....

 

I fight Camels in the vertical regardless speed or altitude. I fight fast SPADs in the horizontal and slow SPADs in the vertical. SE5s are close matches to the D.VII (especially the Vipers) so do whatever works best at the time, but don't be afraid to out-turn them because you can.

[Olham 164]

Thanks for the details, Bullet. Some day I must fly that cardboard box, but now, I joined Jasta 4 earlier,

when they used the Dr.1. But before I use that pilot, I may see, how far my Jasta 10 pilots may get.

 

BH: ...generally you only survive by killing them all.

Well, that's my usual procedure anyway, cause I hate to loose my wingmen. Right now, I'm fighting

Nupe 17 Lewis and Camels from Heule aerodrome with an Albatros D.V (early - the hunchback).

It is so much worse than the other side's craft, that I realise, I must have become a pretty good

pilot - I am not afraid of them at all. Bring 'em on!

[Bullethead 12]

Thanks for the details, Bullet. Some day I must fly that cardboard box, but now, I joined Jasta 4 earlier,

when they used the Dr.1. But before I use that pilot, I may see, how far my Jasta 10 pilots may get.

 

Just remember, by the time Jasta 4 gets the D.VII, it's in a "quiet sector". What makes life there interesting is that its airfield is right amongst the trenches.

 

If you want 1918 at its wildest, try 41 Squadron (SE5s) on 22 or 23 March 1918. And IMHO, the SE5 is a rural US home mailbox. This is the tin box with curved top on a post out at the side of the road, with your address in badly faded stickers on the side). One of these days, I'm going to skin an SE5 with its nose painted as such a mailbox .

 

BH: ...generally you only survive by killing them all.

Well, that's my usual procedure anyway, cause I hate to loose my wingmen.

 

I honestly try to avoid killing all the enemies. In real life, it rarely happened so if there's been enough blood to satisfy honor, I'm content to let the rest go even if I could kill them. But I agree, sometimes they just ask for it by continuing to fight long after they should have left, so then there's nothing for it but to exterminate them.

[Olham 164]

Not necessary to explain, how a U.S. mailbox looks - I was a big fan of all the

Carl Barks "Donald Duck" stories (he drew them best, and had the greatest stories),

and so I know America and even it's mail boxes! (Lol!!)

If you made such an S.E.5a, you'd have to stick that little flag to one side, that would

show "There's post in here".

 

I wouldn't kill so many, if they left after some fighting. Creaghorn said recently in a PM,

that he would love to see, that the units reform after short fighting, and drove home,

without so heavy losses on both sides.

But here, they don't leave a choice to me - as long as they chase my wingman, I will fire

the very last bullet at them.

[Bullethead 12]

If you made such an S.E.5a, you'd have to stick that little flag to one side, that wouldshow "There's post in here".

 

In case you didn't know, the owner puts the flag up to tell the passing postman to pick something up, and the postman folds it down to show he's done so. This is in case you have only outgoing but no incoming mail; otherwise the postman won't stop, which is most of the time except at the end of the month when the bills come.

 

I wouldn't kill so many, if they left after some fighting. Creaghorn said recently in a PM,

that he would love to see, that the units reform after short fighting, and drove home,

without so heavy losses on both sides.

 

I agree. The AI often fights long after I'm willing to call it a day and he should realize it's a lost cause. But not always, especially if you're a Fee pilot.