Yes, they were insane to fly these planes in WWI

[OvS 8]

I was just trawling through a few photos on the RAF BE2 series of aircraft, and I suddenly came to terms with the reality of how flimsy these planes really were.

 

Take a look for yourself and you must agree, they really were mad to fly these things around, especailly knowing what we know now about micro-bursts, down drafts, thermals, winds... etc... add in the obvious that you're being shot at, in a structure that is highly flamable from all aspects.

 

Here is the rudder and tail section... I think it gets the point across that is was all just thin bent metal bar, some wood ribs, and painted (doped) fabric. Nothing more. It's amazing that anyone could have ANY sense of personal security in one of these deathtraps, let alone confidence that it wouldn't just fall apart around them.

 

 

OvS

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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OvS, after flying around a bit in ultralights and working on building my own you find out how amazingly strong the structure actually is, despite its flimsy apperance. But I agree, insanity would have been a plus when flying these kites into battle.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[OvS 8]

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OvS, after flying around a bit in ultralights and working on building my own you find out how amazingly strong the structure actually is, despite its flimsy apperance. But I agree, insanity would have been a plus when flying these kites into battle.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

 

I agree that they are definately stronger than they appear, infact, I'm sure that was a factor in a pilot's mind. But as you know, you have the liberty to decide when to fly, and pick your days good and bad. These guys did it by orders, regardless of the conditions rain, snow... etc.. Imagine flying this thing in the snow??

 

Nuts!!

[Hellshade 110]

I agree that they are definately stronger than they appear, infact, I'm sure that was a factor in a pilot's mind. But as you know, you have the liberty to decide when to fly, and pick your days good and bad. These guys did it by orders, regardless of the conditions rain, snow... etc.. Imagine flying this thing in the snow??

 

Nuts!!

 

 

I'm sure it looked "nuts" to them too...until somebody showed them the trenches.

 

Hellshade

[RAF_Louvert 101]

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Funny how circumstances and necessity change what we view as sane and insane, isn't it? A man on the fourth floor of a burning building likely does not see leaping out the window as an insane thing to do, yet put that same fellow in a perfectly safe building and that jumping option looks pretty damned crazy. As good old Albert said, "It's all relative."

 

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[itifonhom 6]

In view of the trenches, surely an aircraft looked much better option. And I suspect that in some way they thought that these aircrafts were state of the art technology, well for that time these aircrafts actually were top notch! Just imagine what someone might think after 200 years for an F-18 fighter! (If mankind still excists of course). I'm sure some of these guys felt like a "Top Gun" hero but with much more victories!!!

 

itifonhom

[Duce Lewis 3]

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OvS, after flying around a bit in ultralights and working on building my own you find out how amazingly strong the structure actually is, despite its flimsy apperance. But I agree, insanity would have been a plus when flying these kites into battle.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

Shape adds a lot to strength

Lay a piece of paper over the side of a table and it can't even support it's own weight

Fold it up accordian style and it's immensely stronger

Junkers Ju52 and Ford Trimotors used this princple in their currugated skins

[Bullethead 12]

Speaking of the insanity of flying......

 

While at IWM Duxford a few years ago, against my better judgment I got talked into taking a ride around Cambridge in a Dragon Rapide. Sure, it's a nice, classic plane, all wood and canvas and flying from grass, but it's OLD and I've seen enough modern planes naked to not trust even new ones.

 

The 1st cause for concern was boarding the plane. Seats were assigned by how much you weighed to get the balance right, and there were a number of women present who were strongly enjoined not to lie. I think they did anyway. The pilot then did some calculations with pencil and paper (no doubt estimating the real weights of some of the women) and lined everybody up in order of boarding. Entry was at the rear and seats were filled from back to front to keep the plane from nosing over. I ended up on the port side just behind the wing. The pilot was the last person to board.

 

The 2nd cause for concern was the emergency exits. These were in the cabin roof and consisted of circular holes in the plywood decking, over which was just a sheet of canvas. The inside perimeter of this canvas was marked with a dotted line that said "Cut here for emergency exit." Unfortunately, nobody's allowed to carry knives on planes these days.....

 

Anyway, off we bumped and eventually staggered into the air. The view outside wasn't the greatest because the window was some sort of transparent plastic sewn into the fuselage side, and it was somewhat yellowed and foggy. Also, it was streaked with oil. And you dind't want to lean over towards it very far anyway, because the fuselage side was just a few skinny wooden stringers covered with canvas. Besides, my attention was fixated by a set of slack wing bracing wires which were vibrating madly in the wind just outside.

 

These were big wires, maybe 3/8" diameter, 2 of them side by side, so I assumed they were important for holding the wing on, but they obviously weren't providing any support. In fact, their centers were moving up and down over about 8" so fast they were just a blur. I was worried they'd fatigue, snap, and come whipping into the fuselage with me. Besides this, the #1 engine was running a bit unevenly, and its cowling bore greasy fingerprints as evidence of hurried adjustments before our flight.

 

Surprisingly, things went rather well for the 1st few minutes. We climbed up to about 1500' then took off to do a figure-8 around Cambridge and some other nearby town. But then the inevitable happened. We'd made it around Cambridge and were heading for the 2nd town when the #1 engine suddenly emitted a loud BANG and puff of white smoke, after which it just made worrisome grinding noises like you hear in OFF when fighting Brisfits .

 

When this occurred, we happened to be passing the end of the Duxford runway about 3 miles out. I give the pilot credit for quick reactions. Instantly, he whipped us into about a 3G turn (I swear I head the airframe creak) to line up with the runway, then dove us toward it while gunning the remaining engine. We came in low and fast to the threshold, then flew along a few feet up for about 1/2 the runway until we slowed down enough for a 3-pointer. Then we taxied back to the boarding area on 1 engine. That was the end of flying that day for the Dragon Rapide.

 

My parents were sitting on the starboard side so hadn't noticed anything amiss. In fact, they didn't think anything bad had happened at all until I told them. They though the BANG and hard turn were just turbulence. I, however, kissed the ground when I got out of the thing...

 

 

[Hasse Wind 46]

It is true our modern metal-built aircraft do have certain advantages over their ancient predecessors. But they lack a lot of the old crates' charm.

 

And no matter how dangerous the life of a WW1 pilot was, at least he had it easy most of the time compared to what the poor bloody infantry had to endure in the trenches.

[CaptSopwith 26]

If you want an interesting read on a flight in a BE2C, Cecil Lewis' account in Sagittarius Rising is hair raising! Both he and his gunner were shot at by an attacking EIII and left diving for earth, hoping to escape. Of all the planes I'd want to be in during WWI (and that's a small list when you really start to think about it) the Quirk is definitely not on it.

[Check Six 2]

"The 2nd cause for concern was the emergency exits. These were in the cabin roof and consisted of circular holes in the plywood decking, over which was just a sheet of canvas. The inside perimeter of this canvas was marked with a dotted line that said "Cut here for emergency exit." Unfortunately, nobody's allowed to carry knives on planes these days....."

 

 

I reckon if you were going down, and had the time to do anything other than cross yourself and say "Oh, how terribly unfortunate!" or words to that effect...well, I reckon you'd BITE a hole outta that sucker. But...did they supply parachutes? You might just sit there and admire the scenery till you Controlled Flight Into Terrain.

Edited October 12, 2009 by Check Six

[OvS 8]

It is true our modern metal-built aircraft do have certain advantages over their ancient predecessors. But they lack a lot of the old crates' charm.

 

And no matter how dangerous the life of a WW1 pilot was, at least he had it easy most of the time compared to what the poor bloody infantry had to endure in the trenches.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head on this one.

[Olham 164]

Indeed! You may find your end, falling like a burning torch out of the sky.

but for that case, you could take a revolver with you.

But in the trenches, your feet might rott away in your always wet boots from bakteria and fungus.

Your brain might be blown out from the impact of a the bullet of a sniper, who had waited for your

head to show. And if a granade hit your part of the trench, you where either torn to pieces or (my

worst horror-scenario) burried alive - unable to get a hand to that above revolver...

 

Me, I would have chosen the flying, any time! Even as a rear gunner.

[JimAttrill 24]

Me, I would have chosen the flying, any time! Even as a rear gunner.

 

But it does seem that the PBI thought that all flyers were mad, maybe on the 'better the devil you know' principle.

 

 

 

[Bullethead 12]

But...did they supply parachutes? You might just sit there and admire the scenery till you Controlled Flight Into Terrain.

 

Just like any other airliner, you were aboard for the duration. The emergency exits no doubt were there with the idea that a survivable crash would probably leave the only cabin door inoperative, just like car doors are usually stuck after a wreck.

 

I suppose that after a crash there'd be a splinter of wood or something lying around that a survivor could use to cut open the exit if he didn't have a knife. But I think the best case scenario would be if the fuselage came to rest on its side, because most folks with broken bones would find it hard to climb out through the roof, even if they were overloaded with adrenaline.

 

But it does seem that the PBI thought that all flyers were mad, maybe on the 'better the devil you know' principle.

 

That's what I did. Growing up, all I wanted to be was a military pilot, but by the time I was old enough, I knew enough to think that pretty much all the main advances in weaponry since WW2 were designed to shoot down airplanes, and that there was no good place for them to hide anymore, what with dopler radars and such. However, things on the ground hadn't gotten that much more dangerous, relatively speaking. So I opted for the trenches rather than the sky, only to get stuck initially with what was widely considered the most dangerous job in the military--field radio operator, with a life expectancy of 2.5 seconds in combat . But I survived, so I figure I made the right call

[MajorMagee 0]

I loved the one they had in the Torchwood episode "Out of Time". Very Art Deco looking plane. Was the one you flew in from the 30's or from the WWII production run?

[Bullethead 12]

Was the one you flew in from the 30's or from the WWII production run?

 

It was build in the 40s and served in the RAF as a trainer for radio operators.