Spad 13 FM - Player vs. AI

[Duce Lewis 3]

OBD recently gave us some updates ofr the Spad 13 FM

I don't fly the Spad, but forum chatter shows this was a great improvement

Thanks OBD!

 

It seems the AI also have the same updates too as they now try to turn fight

Unfortunately, the Spad will never be a turn fighter and the change seems to have reduced AI effectiveness

Enemy AI tactics are repetitive:

1) They try to turn

2) Just place your nose ahead of the Spad and close easily

3) Either just before or after the 1st burst the Spad AI zooms

4) Climb after him and drill him between the wings

Other Spads can't seem to help their AI buddy because they too can't turn anywhere near as tight as German Scouts

It's gotten so that I consider Spad's "Easy Meat" and not much competetion

I've stopped flying the Marne Region and switched to Flanders to fight Camels & Se5's

 

Before the patch Spad 13's were quite a tough apponent

They tended to make passes and extend in very long curves

I found by the time I turned after them, they were usually out of effective range

Long chases ensued where often another Spad popped up closer & I'd switch targets

Also flying straight while chasing made me more vulnerable to his wingmates

Had to keep a closer watch on my six

 

I'm not complaining but just some observations I've seen

I'm wondering if in the Spad 13's case it would be better to have 2 different FM's

Not that the player should have an advantage

It just seems that the cfs3 AI code is not capable to handle the tighter turning Spad FM

 

Has anyone else had this experience?

What are your thoughts?

[Olham 164]

I can't say, that the SPAD XIII AI tactics had changed. They did the same before.

 

Before the Superpatch, I had a real SPAD killer pilot in the Marne region, cause they

tried to turn, dived and zoomed - and there I got them.

They turn tighter now, but they should still not do that for more than a half circle.

 

It would be great, if their behaviour could be improved in that way, that they make better

use of their speed. If they would dive steep and away, and then zoom STILL AWAY FROM

THEIR OPPONENT and come back higher than him, that would make them very dangerous.

Perhaps in Phase 4 ?

[Hasse Wind 46]

I've always considered the SPADs to be relatively easy opponents in OFF when flying one of my Albatros pilots, and even more so if I use the deadly killing machine, the Fokker Dr.1. I'd rather meet a flight of SPADs than a flight of Camels any day. Back in the day when the Pfalz FM was having problems and the crate was a death trap to fly, I could most easily fight against the SPADs while I had to avoid Camels like the plague.

 

The problem must be the same as in practically every combat flight sim - the AI has trouble with energy tactics. It's easier to go wildly chasing after the player than to properly fight in the vertical, make dives and utilize the SPADs best characteristics, great speed and toughness. While it can be argued that every WW1 fighter can be used as a turn fighter because even the clumsiest of them is a lot more manoeuverable than the heavier WW2 fighters, the SPAD must the fighter of WW1 that most closely resembles the typical energy fighters, and so the AI would benefit greatly for flying them as such.

 

This doesn't mean it's totally unchallenging to fight against SPADs - on the contrary, I've lost quite a few pilots fighting them, and they can be very dangerous in larger flights. But if I had to choose one enemy scout to fight against with my trusty Alb, I'd rather pick the SPAD than any really dangerous turn fighter.

[Bullethead 12]

It seems the AI also have the same updates too as they now try to turn fight

Unfortunately, the Spad will never be a turn fighter and the change seems to have reduced AI effectiveness

Enemy AI tactics are repetitive:

1) They try to turn

2) Just place your nose ahead of the Spad and close easily

3) Either just before or after the 1st burst the Spad AI zooms

4) Climb after him and drill him between the wings

Other Spads can't seem to help their AI buddy because they too can't turn anywhere near as tight as German Scouts

It's gotten so that I consider Spad's "Easy Meat" and not much competetion

I've stopped flying the Marne Region and switched to Flanders to fight Camels & Se5's

 

Hmmm, we're definitely seeing different things.

 

To me, since 1.32, the SPAD XIII turns better than the Fokker D.VII at speeds of less than 100 knots (although not as good at higher speeds), about the same as the Alb D.V at all speeds, and not as good as the Dr.I at all speeds, except the for the odd occurance of the Dr.I being significantly faster than the SPAD.

 

This is if I'm the German or the SPAD. I don't see any difference in what the AI can do and what I can do. Some AI pilots aren't very good (especially a lot of the late-war, high-numbered French and US squadrons) so they don't do things as well as they could. But against competent opponents, the SPAD turns as indicdated above.

 

In 1918 as a German, the SPADs are usually higher and in superior numbers. At high altitude, the tend to dive through my flight and extend away. Then they zoom up and repeat the performance. At low altitudes, they get slow and they they try to turn. Given the above relative turn performance, this is a good idea except against the Dr.I, buit at such low altitudes, they really don't have much other choices.

[Duce Lewis 3]

At high altitude, the tend to dive through my flight and extend away. Then they zoom up and repeat the performance.

That's the ideal AI tactics but I don't see this at any altitude

They did extend away well before the patch

 

They turn tighter now, but they should still not do that for more than a half circle.

That's what I'm seeing, then they zoom but it's an easy shot

 

The problem must be the same as in practically every combat flight sim - the AI has trouble with energy tactics. It's easier to go wildly chasing after the player than to properly fight in the vertical, make dives and utilize the SPADs best characteristics, great speed and toughness.

I've seen the Se5 perform lot of vertical Yo-Yo's and the Camel does a nice barrel roll

Maybe it's the difference of our PC's, settings, etc.