New Rig Set-up

[Luther1517 0]

I am in the process of building a new rig and have seen some gaming computers advertised with a dedicated small (40-80g) solid state (?) HD just for the the flight sim app. I have built several PC's in the past, but am not familiar w/ this set-up. Can some body here enlighten me as to how this is conf and if BH&H would be compatible?

 

Thanks...

[Siggi 10]

A solid-state drive (SSD) is extremely fast (like RAM fast), with all the advantages that suggests. The current wisdom, with SATA drives (or IDE), is to have three, with the OS on one, the game on the second and the page-drive on the third. I believe you can have the OS, game and PF on one SSD and see a significant advantage.

[Siggi 10]

Theoretically it should last forever, due to the lack of moving parts. However it's longevity is Largely unknown, when exposed to various types of malware, and intentional Changes of Programs, erasures and normal daily use. Plus they're rather expensive as new things normaly are

 

They don't last forever, the cells 'die off' as they have a limited number of on/off transitions. But as there are so many of them and the data migrates they still have a decent overall lifespan.

[Von Paulus 8]

They don't last forever, the cells 'die off' as they have a limited number of on/off transitions. But as there are so many of them and the data migrates they still have a decent overall lifespan.

 

It's still new technology. The lifespan will be improve.

I think that's the best upgrade we can do to our systems.

[Luther1517 0]

Would BH&H be compatible with an SSD given the install requirements? I have not finalized the work-up for my new rig yet, and am curious if this APP will work or not. Any thoughts?

 

 

[Von Paulus 8]

Would BH&H be compatible with an SSD given the install requirements? I have not finalized the work-up for my new rig yet, and am curious if this APP will work or not. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

Sure. SSD is like a Hardisk, it will be assigned with a letter (D,E,F....etc) like any ordinary storage device.

Only thing you've to do is when installing OFF and he is asking where to install you've to change the default path (normally I think it's C:\Program Files.......) to the SSD path.

[Luther1517 0]

Excellent....Thanks for the info. I thought I would share the spec's of my proposed new system. I have never built a system specifically for gaming, so here is what I have so far...The graphics card is still undecided yet.

 

Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core 2.8 GHz

ASUS P7P55D MOBO

8GB DDR PC3-10666 (1333MHz) RAM

Two (2) Seagate 1TB 7200 SATA HD's config RAID 0

750W Corsair PS w/140 mm fan

Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium, PCI Express x1

Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 

As for the VC, I am considering either the HD5850 or Nvidia 275. Both are within 10-15$ of each other.

 

Since you folks know the requirments of BH&H and HiTR, (or at least what the apps run better on), much better than I do, please give give me your honest feedback.

 

Thanks,

[appraiserfl 0]

Excellent....Thanks for the info. I thought I would share the spec's of my proposed new system. I have never built a system specifically for gaming, so here is what I have so far...The graphics card is still undecided yet.

 

Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core 2.8 GHz

ASUS P7P55D MOBO

8GB DDR PC3-10666 (1333MHz) RAM

Two (2) Seagate 1TB 7200 SATA HD's config RAID 0

750W Corsair PS w/140 mm fan

Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium, PCI Express x1

Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 

As for the VC, I am considering either the HD5850 or Nvidia 275. Both are within 10-15$ of each other.

 

Since you folks know the requirments of BH&H and HiTR, (or at least what the apps run better on), much better than I do, please give give me your honest feedback.

 

Thanks,

 

Go with the 5850, it gives you the option of triple screen gaming and the performance kicks butt!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/l88bastard/120520098598.jpg

[Luther1517 0]

appraiserfl: Very Nice!! Is that your rig w/3 monitors and a 5850?

[Von Paulus 8]

Intel Core i7 860 Quad Core 2.8 GHz

ASUS P7P55D MOBO

8GB DDR PC3-10666 (1333MHz) RAM

Two (2) Seagate 1TB 7200 SATA HD's config RAID 0

750W Corsair PS w/140 mm fan

Creative Labs Sound Blaster X-Fi Titanium, PCI Express x1

Windows 7 Professional 64-bit

 

 

Great config. For the graphic card I'd choose probably the ATI; but if you go with the Nvidia its ok also.

Are you going to choose a new PC case? That's as important as the components you choose.

And in my opinion you should go for a SSD just for installing the games. Hardisk's are the really bottlenecks of our systems.

Edited December 29, 2009 by Von Paulus

[Luther1517 0]

Von Paulus-

I am tenatively going with the Antec Nine Hundred Two (902) case. I have been considering the SSD, but have never built a system w/ one or configured one. I guess they are SATA interface? Just load the OS and game(s) on the SSD and give it another drive letter other than C: (?) After reading the install FAQ's for BH&H, I am still not sure it will fly (bad pun) with that set-up. Any ideas?

[gordohk 1]

Von Paulus-

I am tenatively going with the Antec Nine Hundred Two (902) case. I have been considering the SSD, but have never built a system w/ one or configured one. I guess they are SATA interface? Just load the OS and game(s) on the SSD and give it another drive letter other than C: (?) After reading the install FAQ's for BH&H, I am still not sure it will fly (bad pun) with that set-up. Any ideas?

 

 

Luther1517, I have a Antec 900 and have to say cable management is a pain. Hopefully, the 902 is improved and not as cramped. Also you will need some space if that PSU isn't modular, I have the cosair 750w and have a pile of cables. So, I can only hope your cable mgt skills are better than mine. The alternative may be a full tower.

[gordohk 1]

Luther1517, I have a Antec 900 and have to say cable management is a pain. Hopefully, the 902 is improved and not as cramped. Also you will need some space if that PSU isn't modular, I have the cosair 750w and have a pile of cables. So, I can only hope your cable mgt skills are better than mine. The alternative may be a full tower.

 

 

And depending on your cpu cooler and placement relative to the side panel you may not be able to mount a fan there (found that at the hard way with the 900). The only other thing that I can think of, are the fans. Hopefully, the fans in the 902 are not equipped with manual switches. My mobo allows for adjusting speed of fans when plugged into the board, but the case fans didn't have the 3 pin plug. Don't get me wrong with all of this, I still like my 900 case but may have been tempted with a full tower and better fans.

[appraiserfl 0]

appraiserfl: Very Nice!! Is that your rig w/3 monitors and a 5850?

 

Yeap thats my rig, I got three dell 20.1" 1600x1200 monitors at 4800x1200. I am running a 5970 and have a 5870 sitting in the closet.

 

OFF does not take advantage of dual gpus so a 5970 is useless versus using a 5870 and you can overclock a 5850 to almost match the performance of a 5870.

 

So I would recommend a 5870 and if it is out of your budget a 5850 is an excellent backup option!

 

Here is my setup in a bigger older post

http://forum.combatace.com/topic/50500-anybody-else-using-an-eyefinity-setup/

Edited December 30, 2009 by appraiserfl

[Luther1517 0]

I have never used an Antec case before, so I have nothing to compare to. I have attached the link to the Antec web-site, if you are interested.

 

http://www.antec.com/Believe_it/product.php?id=NzIy

 

 

If you have any ideas for a better case, let me know.

[Von Paulus 8]

Antec is one of the best brands. I've never assembled a 900, but I believe it's like gordohk said the main problem is the cable management.

The PSU has long cables but someone with average skill and patient will overcome the problem. Besides that's not a crucial thing. Some loose cable it won't affect much the cooling at the risk of overheating some components. I love the concept of the Antec P183/P193 where the PSU cables came behind the board and not in the front. But that demands long cables that I think it might be the case of your PSU.

 

As for the SSD. I personally would have a soultion of two SATA HD's one for Windows/Programs and another for Working/Storage. Then I would add a SSD just for the games.

[Bandy 3]

Make sure you get a compatible aftermarket cooler for your CPU. Artic Cooling or Zalman are good names and very affordable.

 

My Artic Cooling cooler for my ATI 4870 lowered my GPU temps by over 20 degrees Celsius at idle and close to 40 C at full load. Not a word of a lie!

 

As far as SSD go, I've heard (and don't flame me if I got bad info!) the current life expectancy is 10,000 read/writes, which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

 

You mentioned adding a butt-load of RAM for your x64 OS, which basically eliminates the need to put the pagefile onto another drive.

[gordohk 1]

I have never used an Antec case before, so I have nothing to compare to. I have attached the link to the Antec web-site, if you are interested.

 

http://www.antec.com...uct.php?id=NzIy

 

 

If you have any ideas for a better case, let me know.

 

 

Might suggest going with the following PSU:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010

This should help with cable mgt. I have the non-modular cosair and it is great, but I have quite a few cables that I am not using. Just looks a bit sloppy in the bottom of my Antec 900 case, they are tucked beneath the bottom cage. The stock fans with the 900 have manual switches and I had to run those out of the grommets in the back just in case I want to change speeds (they are set to high and have been since I built my rig). Air flow is fine in the 900 and I assume the same is true with the 902. The 902 has washable dust filters which is nice. I'll look around for case alternatives. Might suggest a full tower beast

[Von Paulus 8]

As far as SSD go, I've heard (and don't flame me if I got bad info!) the current life expectancy is 10,000 read/writes, which doesn't sound like a lot to me.

It is true, that's why I don't advise SSD for Windows and pagefile. But in case of games you're not always patching it, so 10,000 times it's still a lot. The personal info (like saves) is nowadays in most cases not in the game folder but somewhere in the my documents folder. So in the end you'll not be read/writing a lot.

But yes I do agree, that's still a new technology that needs a lot of improvements and above all to be more cheaper.

[Bandy 3]

Von Paulus,

That makes a lot of sense to run only the game off the SSD. Having never run programs off a different HD than the OS, are there any tricks involved?

[von Baur 54]

...The current wisdom, with SATA drives (or IDE), is to have three, with the OS on one, the game on the second and the page-drive on the third...

 

 

I ugraded to a SATA HD with my last mobo/cpu change (more out of necessity than choice) and I've got an 80GB IDE collecting dust somewhere around here. I also have an adapter that will let me plug an SATA cable into it. Are you saying I can get some improvement by reinstalling OFF on it rather that the SATA where the OS is? I do have a dual-core cpu, if that makes a difference. If that's the case, and the difference is, say, 10% or more I'd be willing to do it.

 

And what's the page drive? Would I have to have a third HD for it in order to get these benefits? And if so, how would I go about doing that?

[Bandy 3]

The pagefile (virtual RAM) can be put onto another drive to reduce the need to read and write to the same drive as the sim or OS. BUT if you run a 64 bit OS, then you can max out RAM and not worry about that so much.

 

Do a search for pagefile in Win help, there will be lots to read...

 

Having a dual core processor is not involved, though you could use a processor affinity tool to assign the sim to one cpu and the OS (and its many processes) to the other core. THAT should give you real benefits.

Edited December 30, 2009 by B Bandy RFC

[Von Paulus 8]

Von Paulus,

That makes a lot of sense to run only the game off the SSD. Having never run programs off a different HD than the OS, are there any tricks involved?

No not really. You simply install in the HD of your choice. There are a lot of games that are already installing the config and saves in Documents and Settings (XP) or Users (Win7) in drive c or even in the My Documents. OFF installs most part of its configuration and save files in the folders I mentioned previously. And that happens automatically even when you choose to install OFF in another drive.

 

I ugraded to a SATA HD with my last mobo/cpu change (more out of necessity than choice) and I've got an 80GB IDE collecting dust somewhere around here. I also have an adapter that will let me plug an SATA cable into it. Are you saying I can get some improvement by reinstalling OFF on it rather that the SATA where the OS is? I do have a dual-core cpu, if that makes a difference. If that's the case, and the difference is, say, 10% or more I'd be willing to do it.

 

And what's the page drive? Would I have to have a third HD for it in order to get these benefits? And if so, how would I go about doing that?

What siggi said is true.

I really don't think you'll get an extra 10% but try. But if you do all kind of this minor tweeks, like defraging your HD's, it sure can help. The amount it will depend on your machine

Look at this thread: http://forum.combatace.com/topic/51022-ot-dual-boot-of-win7-and-xp/

 

The pagefile (virtual RAM) can be put onto another drive to reduce the need to read and write to the same drive as the sim or OS. BUT if you run a 64 bit OS, then you can max out RAM and not worry about that so much.

Hmmm. I'm not sure, but as far as I know even with a lot of ram there are programs/games that will want to use a pagefile. Remember that most of the programs are 32bits, and cannot use (for example) more than 2GB of ram, the rest they might need will use a pagefile on your HD even if you're running in a 64bits OS with a lot of RAM. Probably that's why sometimes people who switch off the pagefile in order the system to use the extra memory, report loss of performance.

[Luther1517 0]

Thanks guys for the info and links...Gives me some good reading material on New Years Eve. In regard to page-file.sys, on my current XP set-up, I have the swap file split between two (2) HDs. I use the same formula--1.5 x RAM, then put half on each HD. I had read in some tech manual awhile back that it would help alleviate HD "thrashing" (?). Did it help with performance? I can't tell. But when you explain it to people, it really impresses them . I too use Ultimate Defrag, and really like it. It not only defrags the HD, but allows you to choose where to place the files on the HD. And it has options for Performance and Archive Apps. I would recommend you at least give it a look over.

 

 

 

http://www.disktrix.com/