Fokker D VI - Better than the Dr. 1 ?

[Olham 164]

"Hanging on the prop" translated would be "am Propeller hängen" in German.

If there is another special German pilot slang for it, I do not know.

 

Looking forward to your report!

[cptroyce 0]

Dr1 and manoeuvrability:

 

From Frank Tallman's (renowned stunt pilot and aviator) book "Flying The Old Planes" : Flying a rebuilt from scratch replica, (the only difference being a 165 hp Warner engine instead of a 110 hp Le Rhone) "...the triplane was airbourne in about 300 feet with an 8knot wind directly on the nose. The climb out was at about 55 mph, and as I began a climbing turn i felt ailerons as stiff as a boiled shirt; it felt like our old Navy HUP heliocopters when we turned the hydrolic boost off. You very nearly need both hands for the ailerons."

 

Crusing at 95 mph..getting used to everything except the Mack truck like ailerons..I stalled the plane and it fell through at about 50 mph..recovery was easy and loss of altitude slight. Putting the red bird in a Lufberry circle, I could see how you could cut the circle small enough to nearly chew off your own tail".

 

Re looping: In a fit of daring, equal to grabbing a live leopard by the tail, I decided to try a loop. Picking up (speed) to 120 mph, I pulled (her) up, but because of the placement of tghe wings it was hard to orient with the horizon. A most uncomfortable feeling. Unfortunately I was a little slow and did not pull tight enough at the top and barely got over. As the triplane fell through (the loop) , I wondered whether the entire stack of wings might not collapse...my nerves took longer then the triplane to recover from the loop."

 

 

Pilot excepts:

 

Rudolf Stark- Jasta 34 : "At first we find these new machines strange to fly. But they are extremely sensitive to the controls, and rise up in the air like a lift. You climb a few hundred meters in the twinkling of a second and can go round and round one spot like a top".

 

Carl Degelow Jasta 36& 40 described the triplane as "remarkable".

 

 

For the British view, comments from McCudden, Bowman, Cronyn of 56 Sqd and Hammersley and Chidlaw-Roberts of 60 sqd all flying SE5's, after their epic flight with Voss 23 September 1917:

 

Hammersley was the first to be attacked by Voss, who got on his tail and put a burst of fire into him, causing severe damage.

 

From McCudden: Voss turned in a most disconcertingly quick manner; not a climbing turn or Immelmann, but a sort of flat half spin. By now the German triplane was in the middle of our formation and it's handling was wonderful to behold. The pilot seemed to be firing at us all simultaneously...his movements were so quick and uncertain none of us could hold sight of him at all.. I got a good opportunity as he was coming at me nose on and slightly underneath me...I got him well in my sights and pressed both triggers. As soon as I fired, up came his nose at me and I heard clack,clack, clack, clack, as his bullets passed close to me and though my wings. I distinctly noticed the red yellow of his spandau guns. As he flashed by me I caught a glimpse of a black head in the triplane with no hat on at all".

 

 

Got to put my daughter to bed at the moment, will follow up post in a bit.

 

Regards,

Royce

Edited January 29, 2010 by cptroyce

[cptroyce 0]

continued:

 

From Bowman: We were at about 2,000 ft and a mile behind German lines. This left Voss in the middle of the six of us, which did not deter him in the slightest. At that altitude he had a much better rate of climb..and frequently he was the highest machine of the seven of us, and could have turned east and got away had he wished to, but he was not that type and always came down on us again. His machine was exceptionally manoeuvrable and appeared to be able to take flying liberties with impunity. I myself had only one crack at him..I put my nose down to give him a good burst and opened fire; perhaps too soon. To my amazement, he kicked on full rudder, without bank, pulledhis nose up, gave me a burst while he was skidding sideways; and then kicked on opposite rudder before the results of this amazing stunt apperaed to have any effect on the controllability of his machine".

 

 

 

Royce

[Flyby PC 23]

I'm ignorant here, but trying to investigate, and more than happy to be corrected. Is there any contempory direct comparison between the Dr1 and Sopwith?

 

I don't dispute the performance of the Dr1 versus allied biplanes, but wasn't the whole issue behind Fokkers Dr1 design an attempt to match the manoeuverability of the Sopwith?

 

Manoeuverability was always exceptional due to the abundance of lift given by the third wing, but the it came at a price, forfeiting maximum speed through additional drag. This marvellous manoeuverability also fell away dramatically at greater heights.

 

I'm not convinced, correction, I have yet to be convinced, that the impression left on allied pilots following an engagement with a Dr1 was greatly different from a similar engagement with positions reversed.

 

My point is, the Allies did know the strengths of Triplanes, but had moved on in their designs to favour greater speed and superior all round performance.

 

 

Checking the dreaded Wikipedia facts, (I know, I know, but it's handy!!!), the Sopwith was 2 mph faster than the Dr1, could fly 500ft higher, and had 20hp more horse power. The Sopwith was very successful, but lost out against the superior new Camel. You could argue the Dr1 was very similar, losing out to the DVII. Both planes even had similar structural issues.

 

All the comparisons I've seen compare triplane manoeuverability to biplane, not like for like. Did a Dr1 and Sopwith ever meet in combat?

Edited January 29, 2010 by Flyby PC

[cptroyce 0]

Flyby - I'm not an "expert" on WW1 aviation matters, but familiar enough from doing research of interest etc. It seems that Sopwith Tripes became operational in February 1917 and stayed around for about 3 months May/June 1917, until the Camels became available for operations and basically replaced the triplane.  The Fokker Dr1 Triplane became operational to the Jasta's around September/October 1917. So I would think that combat between the two aircraft probably didn't occur..unless there was a stray Sopwith Triphound still flying during the Fokker's brief time in the sky

 

 

Regards,

Royce

 

 

EDITS FOR SPELLING

Edited January 29, 2010 by cptroyce