Beta 22

[visible structural damage 0]

Hello all

 

I've been passing by this forum every couple of days to get the latest updates about the patch, THANKS to ghostdog AND everyone else on here who has contributed to keeping me/us updated about the patch and posting screenies of the new beta because I've given up going to the UBI boards as much as I used to. I don't need to go into the reasons why as your probably all aware of the way it's been over there lately. Personally I need the patch in order to progress with LOMAC, it crashes quite often on my PC, I've also got the LOMAC Manual in the leather (look) binder, track IR 3 Pro and voice buddy so have put some money into this game. Am I bothered about the patch being released ? nah .... not really, after coming here to see if the patch is released I just play IL2, FS2004, Call of Duty or Medal of Honor and take out my tiny bit of frustration out on that.

 

On my last visit to the UBI forums I went for refreshment and my girlfriend saw one of the update threads and some of the whining comments while I was away.... I managed to stop her posting her reply .............. something on the lines of "you think you can do better you come and have a go you little di**head". Mind you after seeing some of the dross posted over there I'm inclined to agree with her !!!!

[SlickWili 0]

VSD,

 

It is unfortunate that everyone posting responses to the beta updates cannot agree on the fact that the beta testers have v1.02 in their crosshairs and are doing everything in their power to deliver a fully operational patch to the end users. The frequent updates from them speaks clearly to this.

 

I do as you do, except it's Unreal Tourney I boot up for some quick time-passing gratification. :D

[finiteless 0]

I managed to stop her posting her reply .............. something on the lines of "you think you can do better you come and have a go you little di**head".  Mind you after seeing some of the dross posted over there I'm inclined to agree with her !!!!

hehe, firey little girlie, best type.

 

I'm more interested in getting my hands on HL-2 at the moment, it remains to be seen if people will re-engage with Lock On online after this long patch wait-a-thon,

 

There has not been a single day since LOMAC came out that I haven't played it, it's still damned sweet, but I need a slab of MEAT in my Lock On sandwich.

 

I hope this 1.02 patch has it.

[sambo 0]

SORRY, but you can scrach 22 23 betas to !

[Skater 0]

I don't care if it gets to beta 50! I want the best patch they can give me, and I don't care how long it takes. I am patient. LOMAC is plenty fun right now, the way it is. I don 't mind waiting.

 

I appreciate every single minute they spend getting that patch right. And I speak from experience, I have beta tested more than 40 games and sims over the years. I know exactly how hard it is to do it.

 

And another thing, in all my years of testing, I have NEVER seen this level of public status reporting. NEVER. It is unbelievable actually... Many thanks for that as well guys.

 

Keep up the good work guys. When it's done, it's done.

 

-Skater

[Krinkle 0]

I totally agree. I have plenty of fun with the 1.01 although I have the odd CTD every once in a while (not often) and some other minor annoyances. Nothing major though. Nothing that keeps me from just flying around, enjoying the look and feel, and honing my (at the moment: semi-crappy) skills in flight and combat.

 

Ventured in to HyperLobby for the first time yesterday and just idled around as a spectator to see what i might be up against in the near future. :)

 

Great game, and this is a great forum in comparison to what goes on at UBI's.

 

/Krinkle, aka Sgt.Snorkel

[Bard 0]

I think we ALL want this patch to be as complete as possible, because let's face it - i don't think there's a lot of faith that we're going to get another patch afterwards unless there's something HORRIBLY wrong in the opinion of the devs.

 

HOPEFULLY - 1.02 will do the trick. I don't expect flawless (not the way things have been going and after reading lexicon's quick analysis of the code he has seen) but I do expect to be able to do the stuff our squad wanted to do - online engagements in as realistic a manner as possible within the sim without crippling bugs.

 

I suppose it's come down to what is an acceptable level of bugginess.

 

How can you even quantify such a thing?

[Bard 0]

oh btw - if any of you guys play counterstrike, I admin a couple of servers. If there are admins on it's pretty much f***tard free.

 

66.150.164.58:27015

 

best times are usually in the evenings after 6:30pm when all the other old folks get home from work.

[Ruggbutt 45]

(not the way things have been going and after reading lexicon's quick analysis of the code he has seen)

I wouldn't put too much credence in what he says. Everyone on the net is an expert.............................and a millionaire.

[visible structural damage 0]

I forgot to mention in my original post about the updates we receive from the guys on the front lines testing, they are excellent.

 

I also saw a post .....I forget who it was from... on the UBI boards who was actually complaining about the updates we receive. I think his post contained something like "I don't need to be told how everything is going every five minutes like I'm a kid saying are we there yet, are we there yet". I just wonder why he was reading the post in the first place let alone posting a reply to it. Anyway, I'm not fussed how long the patch takes as long as it gets here one day and it's half decent, I'll keep on passing by here having a look and in the meantime keep practising my parachute routine in IL2 LOL ! Track IR is sweet in a flight sim and when that 1.02 baby eventually arrives you'll see me online... VSD, you'll recognise me instantly, I'll be the one on the end of a parachute after about 3 minutes of flying (or is that a generous timespan with my jet new b ness) with an A to A stuck right up my tailpipe, my plane with plenty of visible structural damage !!!! SWEET !

 

:D :D

[Bard 0]

(not the way things have been going and after reading lexicon's quick analysis of the code he has seen)

I wouldn't put too much credence in what he says. Everyone on the net is an expert.............................and a millionaire.

actually what he says makes perfectly good sense, and is a logical explanation for the cascading effect that fixes are having.

 

i've worked on a lot of other's people's code (brought in as a consultant to fix problems in software) and i understand totally what he means by ambiguous code.

 

when programming, a lot of people tend to sit down and start coding right from their head - ESPECIALLY when they are under time constraints. The code doesn't get commented properly, ambiguous variable names are used, subroutines are ill structured and generally you end up with a program that is like a carpenter hammering a house together rather than working from a blueprint. The house ends up being the result of the skill, foresight and experience of the carpenter (and no-one is perfect), whereas even a mediocre carpenter can follow a plan and get it right.

 

This very often leads to code that does not make sense even to the programmer later without actually working back through the code and "reverse designing" if you will. I've had to sit down for weeks at a time reverse designing systems so i could track down a single logic error, because you have to design to the way they coded it, not the way they SHOULD have.

 

In the end the time you save just coding is just false economy unless you got it perfect and you have a perfect memory. Such a programmer would be worth their weight in gold, and i've not met one. The whole purpose of the design process is to allow you to get it logically right before you even start coding, and you work to the design. Makes it very easy to insert extra functionality too because you can look at the design and figure out where the extra functionality should connect.

 

of course - this is all conjecture - but to anyone with professional programming experience in reasonably large projects the delays and the difficulties being encountered are atypical of undisciplined development.

[SlickWili 0]

I also saw a post .....I forget who it was from... on the UBI boards who was actually complaining about the updates we receive.  I think his post contained something like "I don't need to be told how everything is going every five minutes like I'm a kid saying are we there yet, are we there yet".  I just wonder why he was reading the post in the first place let alone posting a reply to it.

Precisely. Don't read every post if all you're interested in is where the patch can be downloaded. When the patch is ready, it'll be hosted directly off the http://www.lo-mac.com website. That's the only page that needs to be refreshed to check for it. :D

[SlickWili 0]

when programming, a lot of people tend to sit down and start coding right from their head - ESPECIALLY when they are under time constraints.

I agree.

 

I've never called myself a programmer, but I've written enough stuff in C and PERL to know that designing a program is a personal thing. When you sit down to someone else's code, you have to kinda get into their head to figure it all out. If you can't discern why they programmed things the way they did, it makes for a long night/week/month.

 

There are guidelines for coding, but that's all they are; guidelines. How to design the code is up to personal preference as well as interpretation.

[finiteless 0]

I jump in, I blast off, with very cool jet sounds and the best texture add-ons ever applied, and rip along the floor of the deep forested valleys, then I have a sudden balls-to-the-wall IR and guns scrape with two F-14s as I crest over a snow capped ridge ... there they are! … its on! ... I survive, then head for the refueller to get topped up … on to the IP, dodge two missiles, toss a bomb smack-bang on the desired building then beat it over a nearby ridge line, just in time to trash an incoming missile … egress … cruise RTB ... these are golden moments, just outstanding! … no where else can I get this, there isn’t a jet sim available anywhere today that can do this with this degree of sheer beauty and thrill.

 

did it work?

 

dah, yes!

 

did I have serious problems?

 

nope

 

what do you think, isn't the ‘coding’ terribile?

 

WTF!? … PARDON? (see above text)

[GhostDog 0]

:)

[Bard 0]

There are guidelines for coding, but that's all they are; guidelines.  How to design the code is up to personal preference as well as interpretation.

a LOT of development is personal, but there are methods taught world wide - generally in the design side of things. That's how educational institutions manage to teach it.

 

Also, some languages are more formalised than others - the newer ones tend to be less so.

 

just like anything else, you can either make your own choices in how to do things, or follow other "best practices" or methods.

 

for err.. finiteless.... often a messy program works - that's the whole point of writing the program, the problem occurs when you are trying to add or tweak things within it or troubleshoot it.

[Snacky 0]

I need another beer

Edited June 11, 2004 by Snacky

[Bard 0]

beer is good :)

[Snake248th 0]

Beer is very good :D

[Ruggbutt 45]

often a messy program works - that's the whole point of writing the program, the problem occurs when you are trying to add or tweak things within it or troubleshoot it.

Thats a good point, and messy is a subjective term. Take your start menu for example. How many entries do you have in your Start/All Programs menu? My mom has 3 columns of stuff, I have 6 entries (folders). Everything is filed away nice and neat because I like to be able to find what I'm looking for (and the fact that I'm slightly anal retentive is part of it). My home is the same way. All of my girlfriends used to get highly annoyed w/me for making them wipe out the sink w/a towel after they use it. I find I don't have to scrub the sinks w/cleanser as often (we have horrible hard water here).

 

Thats how I file things, is it the right way? For me it is, for others it might appear strange as they aren't used to operating in that fashion.

[Bard 0]

cool you understand the concept :)

 

Ambiguous code can be like having piles and piles of paper on your desk and you are looking for a phone number you wrote down, you know which pile it is in, except you wrote down just the number and nothing else.

 

the number is there somewhere, but when you find it you can't be sure if it is the right number until you try it, and you might have to try a few different numbers before you get the right one.

 

it might have taken a few extra seconds to write the person's name down when you wrote the number, but you didn't think you were going to need it again.

 

you'd be suprised at how often code is written this way - it takes more effort, time and discipline to do it in an organised manner, and often there's pressure to get it done ASAP rather than to do it "neatly".

[Ruggbutt 45]

And being under a deadline to get something done sometimes results in more clutter.

 

I've seen stuff like this occur as more people become involved in a project, whether it be software or construction. A good manager will try to sort things out and make sure things end up in their proper places. The thing is that there is more going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Corporate politics killed F4 if I recall, so you can image some of the b.s. that ED had to deal with.

 

The saying "Shiznit runs downhill" is appropriate regarding any kind of corporate environment.