A View On Ilegal Immigration...

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Ok,

 

I checked this thread quickly this morning and thought about it during work. First off i have to change my view on everyone going to where they came from. Frankly, it's impossible considering some places are basically hellholes that would decimate visa seekers. I would advise going to some other country and doing the paperwork from there.

 

Think it's unreasonable?

 

One of my Aunts was amongst the people who climbed the fence of the Peruvian embassy in Havana and asked for asylum. This led directly to the Mariel Boatlift in 1980.

 

She spent 3 years in Lima, Peru before coming to the US.

 

 

"But now we have a complicated process of visas and consulates that the everyday peasant who wants to come to America can't understand or afford. So they just come."

 

You wouldn't believe the chuckles i got out of that one. ETR, what contact do you have with the Latino community as a whole? Have you ever lived, worked with or been around Illegals for an extended period? The everyday peasant? That is one of the funniest things i've read in a very long time.

 

The ones i worked with a few years ago would shrug their shoulders if you mentioned a visa. "Why should i do that when i can just go when i please?" That's an actual quote from a Mexican lady i worked with.

 

Complicated? How complicated can it be when some of the people i work with now are aren't very literate? A few i consider dumb as a post but they went through the paperwork just like the others.

 

The cost is nothing compared to certain other significant events in one's life. Want an example? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quincea%C3%B1era

 

You can go ahead and compare that to the cost of getting a visa.

 

Now i give Latino examples all the time because that is the largest part of the problem. It's a bother when views are given without a clue as to the cultural involvement in the issue.

[+malibu43 142]

I'm not excusing anyone. I just want people to be aware there are other factors to the illegal immigration problem than just the illegals. I wish all employers were like Ruggbutt here, but sadly they are not and those who do exploit illegals or unemployed interns or outsource their operations to el cheapo lands are hurting society back home.

 

I'm not sure if I understand how legally outsourcing labor to another country has anything to do with illegal immigration... ?

[eraser_tr 29]

Well what the hell else can you call random poor people without any education or consistent job?

 

And actually, quite alot of contact, illegal, legal and natural born. Have you seen any of "upstate" New York in the last 15 years? Everywhere from New Rochelle and White Plains up through Peekskill, Newburgh and Poughkeepsie, most of the population growth is hispanic immigrants, plenty illegal.

[+Old Diego 66]

Every once in a while this type of thread always pops up and every time its the same exact thing. Why don't those illegals just follow the law? Why are they a drain on the economy? Why don't they pay taxes? etc etc.

 

Seriously, I know plenty of people who break the law by not paying taxes, get social benefits etc - all of them citizens. This entire argument of "they" are causing the downfall of the US is overblown. The reason many if not most are here is for economic opportunity. Remove that opportunity and there is no reason to be here. Illegals do not hire themselves. They are actively sought after for the cheap labor, plain and simple. The whole system for catch and release is a complete joke. They are hired, they are deported, they are rehired or someone else is to take their place. Why not hold the employer at fault? If the penalty was more than a simple fine, and maybe some actual jail time, then maybe employers would think twice about hiring illegals. This means your mom and dad too, who cruise Home Depot looking for that el cheapo labor to build that nice new gazebo and fence. I know, none of you guys would ever think of hiring "them"....yeah, right, sure. When it comes down to thin profit margins and competing for contracts, many will do what is already being done - hire illegals. I see this all the time and every time I ask the same question - if it bothers you so damn much, what are you doing about it, besides griping on some forum? Go boycott known chicken producers, home builders, government contractors who build border walls(my personal favorite), medium sized factories ...you get the picture. After all, hitting the pocket book is the best way to achieve social change, while the easiest is through armed revolt.

 

In these tough economic times, I really feel for the guy who is trying to do it "right" and by the book but that is not the American way. It should be but it isn't. We don't play by a set of rules. We figure out a way to overcome that obstacle be it legal or otherwise. Any honest and in-depth reading of history or evening news will show that our leaders of industry, politicians and pioneers all did it by dubious means. So go ahead and get that deck built this summer, Home Depot will still get the money for the wood.

[Ruggbutt 45]

It sounds to me that you're taking the side of the illegals when you say that Americans are doing the same thing. It's not right regardless. Employers are being punished in AZ for hiring illegals. As they should be.

[+Old Diego 66]

It sounds to me that you're taking the side of the illegals when you say that Americans are doing the same thing. It's not right regardless. Employers are being punished in AZ for hiring illegals. As they should be.

 

I'm not taking any side. I simply try to enhance the obvious hipocracy that is always prevalent in the illegal alien argument. The reason I don't take a side is that there simply isn't one to take that makes any sense. Everyone is guilty and everyone is right-ish.

 

Look, I really doubt the AZ employers are being punished. Its more likely that they are being hampered by some token fine that doesn't equal or exceed the cost benefit that hiring an illegal would provide. If the fine was a million dollars per illegal hired, then you would convince me.

[+Erik 1,793]

There's a double edged sword at play here. The governments want the income from tax revenues. State, Federal, FICA are still withheld from their paychecks, the catch is they never file a return to claim a refund. So why wouldn't you want to collect all that money knowing it's never going to be returned for overpayment. I agree with the idea of taking the economic advantage away from hiring non citizen workers. I believe a system should be in place to handle that but that requires more government spending to staff and monitor these things. That's exactly what we don't need is a bigger government. I also worry that if the fines and tracking of non citizen employment becomes too overbearing employers will start paying cash (if they don't do it already). This is also all based on the idea that a company is being ran by a citizen who fears the implications of fines and jail. Imagine for a second that this isn't the case and a majority of the businesses being operated aren't being done so legally to begin with.

 

Real reform, real ideas, real solutions are the only hope to resolve this. Our elected officials don't have a clue, they only worry about being caught red handed by employing a gardener or house keeper that only has a small newspaper article of birth on some island as their basis to citizenship. Okay that was a stretch but the fact remains they only care about their immediate ramifications and not solving the problem in a realistic way that not only supports the US Citizens but emphasis their importance.

[+Old Diego 66]

Only too true, Erik. I think that if people would just be honest with what they want and not be hypocritical, a real solution would eventually surface. For example; during a period when much of the labor was away fighting WW2, a solution was found in the Bracero Program. Everybody won.

[Ruggbutt 45]

I'm all for the Braceros program again. As long as we have these people on paper and we know who they are. I'm about fed up seeing that an illegal killed a cop and skeedaddled across the border. Mexico won't give them up cuz AZ has the death penalty. No sir, we need to know who is coming in and what they're up to. The gubmint already knows what the rest of us are doing. Let's put everything on playing field and lets make it fair to all.