navychief 1 Posted August 7, 2004 Glad you liked the site, Scout! And the thing is, it is nothing but the truth. Those video clips are not fraud. They are a chronological record of the distortions made by a man who wants to be our next President and CIC. It is more than scary; it is frightening. Firehawkordy, Wouldn't it be great if they would turn Saddam Hussein loose in an Ordnance Workcenter for a few hours? Let them "interrogate" him a little. Heh, heh. By the way, I was always envious of the comraderie that AOs share. They are the tightest-knit rating in the Navy; in my opinion! Navy Chief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falcon Six Two 0 Posted August 7, 2004 And the strongest... Look at the size of that bomb! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 And the strongest... Look at the size of that bomb! We have a few toys that are supposed be used to load weps,the only time we used them is when a admiral or some such was around,otherwise, it was 'ready nose,ready tail.......but it was damm efective and fastest way load up a strike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 Glad you liked the site, Scout! And the thing is, it is nothing but the truth. Those video clips are not fraud. They are a chronological record of the distortions made by a man who wants to be our next President and CIC. It is more than scary; it is frightening. Firehawkordy, Wouldn't it be great if they would turn Saddam Hussein loose in an Ordnance Workcenter for a few hours? Let them "interrogate" him a little. Heh, heh. By the way, I was always envious of the comraderie that AOs share. They are the tightest-knit rating in the Navy; in my opinion! Navy Chief yeah,we go from the guy said 'depends of what is is' to Mr Bush to this guy that can't order a damm ham sandwich...as for saddam,I have to admit problly be more fun turn him over the the wifes,mothers sisters and daughters of the guys he killed,had their tongues cut etc....or my ex.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
navychief 1 Posted August 7, 2004 Your EX? Man, that is cold! Speaking for myself, I am not sure I would wish the wrath of my EX on my worst enemy!!! Heh, heh, heh.... Navychief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
finiteless 0 Posted August 7, 2004 ... RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! ,,, the SKY is FALLING! ... the SKY is FALLING!! The tried and true fear-mongering propagandist techniques sure die hard huh? Look guys, I read your links and I think you got this guy all wrong (and apparently it's a wilful deliberate getting of it wrong), read the page linked below in total. I'm not trying to have a spat with any of you 'vets' or old-hands, but I think some of you are tremendously biased and dedicated to believing the worst, regardless of the 'facts' being smeared about, and are just twisting stuff around without a substantial basis for doing so. READ: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp As the maxim goes; don't believe all that you read--nor should you just read one or two selected 'sources' ... so I read around about this guy, because I really don't know who Kerry is, and I'm only interested because the US president elected has a very big affect on us here in Australia also, so I want to know about his combat record and his 5 medals, and the corroborated combat accounts (rather than just buying into the rabid nonsense getting said about this chap in some of the threads and posts above). So don't take it personally, but I don't appreciate the needless political spin being applied by the anti-Kerry brigade here-in, who would have me believe this guy is a stupid egotistical self-serving louse, when he clearly is not. But besides all that, have a great weekend! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firehawkordy 34 Posted August 7, 2004 Okay, I read the link you provided. I have to say that it didn't change my mind. What it did do was re-affirm my opinion that he was there just to get his ticket punched. You don't know about Adm. Zumwalt's policies and how they, although made for the best of intetions, degraded the Chains of Command and caused more harm than good. Kerry took advantage of a liberal policy to get an early rotation home, get an early out, and betray his shipmates. I have other reasons for not wanting him in office, one of which is that he wants to raise taxes. President Bush cut our personal taxes and and Kerry wants to take more money out of my pocket. All tax relief Bush has given, Kerry wants to take back. This is true with any Democrat, they want money for all their social programs and expect the middle class to pay for it. I work hard for what pay I get, I resent anyone taking more than their fair share of it. Another reason I dislike Kerry is this, I have yet to hear one solid policy from him. All I hear are vague promises, the term smoke and mirirors comes to mind. If he his nebulous promises do work then he's attacking Bush for not running for the door when the attacks on 9-11 occurred. What was he suuposed to do? I think that you really have to live here a few years to understand why the military dilikes and distrusts a Democratic President. The Dems have a way of looking sweet and innocent and appealing to people with short attention spans and memories. Republicans, because they are still trying to live down Nixon, have a hard time getting the voting public to listen with an open mind. I know and realise that our Presidents have flaws, but I want to have a man in office that I can trust, I can't trust Kerry. I dont think that Bush has all the answers too, but at least he is trying. Kerry brings to the table ideas that have been disproved long ago but still appeal to the left. I can say this about the man Kerry, he did serve his country, but not to completion of his commission, and he served for his own purposes. That said, I would have requested a transfer to another unit than be under his command. Kerry is an elitist, he has no connection with the Voting public. I by the way do listen and read up on anyone who would want to be President. I look at all the facts surrounding the cannidates. When the first Bush ran for re-election I voted for Peroe because of some things said on the campaign trail and that he promised no new taxes and promptly raised them. So dont ever think I am blindly following the pack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
finiteless 0 Posted August 7, 2004 Thanks firehawkordy, your words make a lot more sense to me than the other stuff within this thread. We have a current opposition social-democratic type "Labor Party" here in Australia as well, and a national election coming up in about 2 months, or less (it's the Oz variant of the current British Labour party of Tony Blair's), who are likewise distrusted by most of the military, mainly because of their poor economic record, repeated budget deficits, higher taxes and massive commonwealth debt accumulation during their last term in power, and all of that has big implications for military planning, programs and budgets; which really should be sacrosanct from the political football game, but isn't. It's complex, because this quite distrusted quasi-socialist opposition Labor are offering a much more robust airforce between 2010 to 2020 time period, than the much more financially prudent current government which has been making great strides in cleaning up Labors 1980s to mid 1990s economic mess. So yes, I'm sure the situation is likewise very complex in your country's politics as well, I just wish the wilful smearing and disinformation tactics were not being so avidly utilised and repeated all the time, because if Kerry does get into power, the chances are he will do a fairly creditable job, me thinks--at least, many here hope so, because George W. Bush is generally not liked in this country, regardless of how close the alliance between us otherwise is. Most people here would be rather relieved if GWB lost in November, and if Kerry is to be the new guy he doesn't look nearly as bad as GWB from our perspective. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
navychief 1 Posted August 7, 2004 Firehawkordy quite eloquently expressed my feelings to a "T". However, I want to add a few more comments. Finiteless, Here in the US, the media is unbelievably liberally biased. It's always been that way. A few years ago, FOX News came into being, and finally provided a balanced alternative to the leftwing-slanted information spewed by all the other news media channels, including NPR (National "Propaganda" Radio). I listen to the garbage put out by some of Kerry's supporters, and the frustration builds within me. Forums like this allow me, and other like-minded individuals, the opportunity to vent. I admit that as a retired military man, I definitely have biased opinions about who I want to see as our CIC. 1992 brought the beginning of 8 years of having Clinton as our CIC. Yes, his office demanded respect, but as an individual, Bill Clinton was a disgrace. Every time I saw him on TV, it was a constant reminder of his proven disdain for the military (evidenced by his protest against the US involvement in Vietnam when he was in Moscow!). I was ashamed to have Clinton as my President, and even more so as my CIC. He tarnished the office of the President. Now along comes Kerry. He is self-serving and not to be trusted. Our country was attacked viciously on 9/11. I do not want a President who is interested in turning over the control of our troops overseas to the incompetent boobs at the UN. I do not want a President who is interested in UNDERSTANDING the anger of the terrorists who attacked us. I want a President who is strong, decisive, and is not afraid to initiate a strike against those who intend to harm us. Finiteless, you stated you wished the "willful smearing", and "disinformation tactics were not being so avidly utilised", yet you make comments about military people, such as, "the system that feeds and cloths you, and provides you weapons, training and a fat pay cheque, and without which you would be just so much poor trailer-trash." That understandably evokes ire. Additionally, I, like Firehawkordy, am sick of handing over more and more of my hard-earned pay to the govt. Kerry, if allowed into office, will assuredly do his best to raise taxes again, and "steal" more of Americans ability to survive, financially. All this, simply to fund social programs that have been proven NOT to work. I made the statement that I believe a large majority of people who intend to vote for Kerry are doing so, simply because of extreme and misguided hatred for Bush. I still believe this. If Kerry is elected, I am convinced that the defense of our country will be diminished. Navy Chief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 Now along comes Kerry. He is self-serving and not to be trusted. Our country was attacked viciously on 9/11. I do not want a President who is interested in turning over the control of our troops overseas to the incompetent boobs at the UN. I do not want a President who is interested in UNDERSTANDING the anger of the terrorists who attacked us. I want a President who is strong, decisive, and is not afraid to initiate a strike against those who intend to harm us. Control of US forces to the un was tried in somalia...we remember what happened there,dont we...those 7 mins after President Bush was advised of what had happened sealed My belief in the Man,you could SEE in his eyes what we ALL felt,you could SEE in his eyes that this was NOT going go unpunished(like the cole,khobar,wtc 93 etc)..but he stayed there with the kids,finishing what he had been doing...Me for one cant see what the hell he could have done then and there,for ANYONE to say Id have done this or that is a LIE because One can NEVER say what one Would do..I also believe we dont need a president that wants to understand those animals,one can't negotiate with a pit viper can one..you find a viper you Kill the damm thing..comments bout the wmd's have been made,one ought to think of what was stated..those guys will only understand when it is THEM looking over THEIR shoulders,when it is THEM dying as they are found,it is NOT a matter for law enforcement,never has been..and its NOT for oil either,hell if it was oil we invaded the wrong countries..but thats another can..before comments are made,Im NOT a baby killer(no matter if kerry says we ALL in Nam were),Im NOT a drug user..If One Democrat came up with WORKING ideas,with FINITE comments on how This or that would be done,I could vote for a person like than(no matter the sex of the person)..at the start of this (sept 11 2001) it was said we needed clean the swamp,well now we ARE IN the flipping swamp and ARE cleaning it....last but NOT least Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 ... RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! ,,, the SKY is FALLING! ... the SKY is FALLING!! The tried and true fear-mongering propagandist techniques sure die hard huh? Look guys, I read your links and I think you got this guy all wrong (and apparently it's a wilful deliberate getting of it wrong), read the page linked below in total. being smeared about, and are just twisting stuff around without a substantial basis for doing so. READ: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/service.asp As the maxim goes; don't believe all that you read--nor should you just read one or two selected 'sources' ... so I read around about this guy, because I really don't know who Kerry is, and I'm only interested because the US president elected has a very big affect on us here in Australia also, so I read around about this guy, because I really don't know who Kerry is,So don't take it personally, but I don't appreciate the needless political spin being applied by the anti-Kerry brigade here-in, who would have me believe this guy is a stupid egotistical self-serving louse, when he clearly is not. But besides all that, have a great weekend! [The tried and true fear-mongering propagandist techniques sure die hard huh?] Yep look at michael moore and his partners.. [and apparently it's a wilful deliberate getting of it wrong] Nope it is the guys OWN WORDS..All of them..the guy votes for Action then votes NOT to provide Equipment [just twisting stuff around without a substantial basis for doing so] Oh Trust it,theres QUITE a bit of basis.. [so I read around about this guy, because I really don't know who Kerry is,] Sorry to say it but you Still dont..the guys combat record dont mean SQUAT(he HIMSELF said being in the military WAS NOT a requirement to being President),when 30+ people say something is wrong,the odds are damm good there IS..In combat those AROUND you can see,hear from others what you did or done,one dont need be in same boat to see one being hesitant,one dont need be in same boat to see a MINOR scratch be brought up to a Purple Heart standard,one dont need be in same boat to see a fellow officer do thing just for himself or because he thinks it would look good... [but I don't appreciate the needless political spin being applied by the anti-Kerry brigade here-in, who would have me believe this guy is a stupid egotistical self-serving louse, when he clearly is not.] bout the only thing I can say bout this is take the blinders off,stop drinking the kool-aid..I DO agree tho,the guy is not stupid................... as for you not appreciating it.....nahh,nope.no I will bite my tongue..other than to say the 'old' tired thing bout free speech..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 Ok kiddies,heres a sick sick individual..... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5629119/ and we are called the anti kerry brigade lol...this might be another reason we ARE... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 Hearing Kerry speak is about as motivating as watching a safety training film about VD.I better stop before I'm acused of being narrow minded. least the folks in the vd training film are alive.. lol lol.. :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 Ok folks,we been talking bout 'medals' and at times its been said how impressive 5 medals are,below are two links that just might change your mind about TRUE heroism,if being in military(which funny 12yrs back was NOT a requirement) is a requirement for President then I nominate both of these Courageous Men http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/2..._1/0_frame.html http://www.homeofheroes.com/hallofheroes/2..._1/0_frame.html Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 7, 2004 you know how much trouble an AO can cause Hell FireHawk we dont cause trouble at all,we are shy,innocent sweet things.... tho without Weapons the birds on a birdfarm are just scheduled airliners and the boat is just another cruise ship..... :D But in Reality we ALL know it takes the WHOLE TEAM,from the cook,to the clerk to the snipe to the bosu'n to the radar operator to the Grunt to the ParaTrooper to the Pilot going off the pointy end of the boat to do the Nations work... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
finiteless 0 Posted August 8, 2004 (edited) navychief, thanks for your post and I hear what you are saying, and can't really disagree a whole lot, fair enough, but as firehawkordy also said, Bush does not have all the answers either, it seems to me he is going to drive your economy to ruin with that combination of low taxes and phenomenal defense and security budgets; and inevitably there will be a national change of political direction at some point, and the Federal budgets will have to be deeply cut again, and taxes will have to be raised to cover this incredible splurge (it's not just Dems that are blowing your national budget all the time ;) ), and if it is a Dem president which has to do it, then we'll see yet another repeat of the 1990's politics ... with the usual vilification of the people who have to necessarily rein-in the current spending over-reaction, or allow an economic crisis to develop ... seems to me there are no easy answers here. (BTW; oil is a BIG motivator in all this as well, because if the flow is deeply cut or interrupted via regional Islamic militant actions, so is your economic prosperity, so to say that there is no connection between mid-east oil and what is happening combat and security-wise is a thoroughly unconvincing claim--no good fooling ourselves, they are inextricably linked issues) Edited August 8, 2004 by finiteless Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
finiteless 0 Posted August 8, 2004 Ok kiddies,heres a sick sick individual..... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5629119/ and we are called the anti kerry brigade lol...this might be another reason we ARE... I think everyone would agree, that guy faking his execution is a freakin cretin, ... but what on earth does that have to do with Kerry? Sorry, I don't see any connection. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
navychief 1 Posted August 8, 2004 Hey Finiteless, I read your post several times, and I have to agree with you on every point. Arrrrggghhhh!!! Seriously, I agree with you about the excessive spending and all, and at some point - whoever is in charge will have to raise taxes. What I do NOT want to see, however, is increased spending on social programs that have been proven NOT to work, and are nothing but handouts. I also do not want any control given to the UN. We must not give up control of our own defense forces, ever. Good post, Finiteless. Navy Chief Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 8, 2004 I agree with you about the excessive spending and all, and at some point - whoever is in charge will have to raise taxes. What I do NOT want to see, however, is increased spending on social programs that have been proven NOT to work, and are nothing but handouts. I also do not want any control given to the UN. We must not give up control of our own defense forces, ever. raising taxes ought be on a as required basis,but dont tell you are going do it,dont tell it as a devisive thing,it ought not be that...those social programs ARE the problem,nothing wrong with helping folks that are down,but I see nothing wrong with folks doing social work or some type of work even if a few hrs a day,that is Not derogatory,degoratory is collecting and doing Nothing offered as social service work..and as for the un,we all saw real good examples of what un control of our forces does,there was somalia then we saw the dog and pony show about iraq..and there are many more examples,the un problly does real good as administrators but as warfighters they cant do it..yes our troops ought Never be given over to others to command Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 8, 2004 oil is a BIG motivator in all this as well LOL LOL..try telling that to the folks in ca that are paying much more than 2 bucks a gallon! lol.just kidding,you made sense with the comment bout interrupting the flow,and those guys DO want that badly.. damm did I just agree???????????????? :D that WAS a good well laid out posting finite Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scout_51 0 Posted August 9, 2004 Cheers guys. :) LOL LOL.see we not as 'crazy' or irrational as you might have thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
finiteless 0 Posted August 9, 2004 LOL, ahhh, but we are all crazy, or else we would not be regularly at each others throats, inter-personally or intra-nationally or inter-nationally. QED ;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Fates 63 Posted August 9, 2004 NC, your PM box is full...could you please edit that so I can send you a PM... ;) Fates Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
