How are you guys flying in a fight?

[Olham 164]

The very most of the time with OFF I have been flying the Albatros variants.

In dogfights, I never used any aerobatics or combat maneuvres - I closed up to the best target and shot it up - or down.

Now I am flying the "Krauts vs Crumpets" Campaign again, and Jasta 6 has the Fokker Triplane now.

My last fight was my first against Sopwith Camel.

Now, those RNAS-Camel jockeys can show you, what an evasive maneuvre is!

Since I still wanted to shoot the guy down, I had to follow (no way in an Albatros! You'd just pick a new target).

The Dreidecker is pretty solid compared to the Albatros - the wings I mean.

So I followed that Tommy to see, what he would come up with.

He did mainly vertical downward rolls, which he pulled out of unexpectedly to the left, to the rear, just everywhere.

Still though, he could not shake me off (and had invested all his altitude after short time).

I had never been flying anywhere near that in an Albatros!

 

How do you guys fly in your fights? (Please name the plane type with your report).

Edited January 9, 2011 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

You all know the tactics depend on the aircraft type, and there are so many different choices for each situation that there's no point in trying to describe them all here.

 

But I fly a lot of two-seaters, and I have learned to use some methods that help me to stay alive. If I'm flying a two-seater that's capable of flying really high (such as the DFW or the Hannover), the best defense is to climb as quickly as possible and maintain the altitude for as long as possible. Often combat can be avoided altogether with this method. WW1 aircraft are usually so underpowered that almost nobody can catch me if I'm staying high. If they climb quickly, I will be faster and outrun them. If they try to maintain higher speeds, they can't climb well. This limitation, ie. not being able to climb quickly and still maintain high speed, has saved my pilot's life more than once.

 

If I'm attacked and can't avoid the situation, then I always try to maintain my flight's formation as tight as possible, and see that all the rear gunners have good fields of fire against the attackers. A tight defensive formation with 4-6 observer guns firing at the enemy is not easy to beat, especially for the AI pilots. But if it becomes impossible to maintain formation and enemy aircraft are coming from all sides, I break away and fight back. Many of the two-seaters can be surprisingly effective in dogfights. I've even managed to shoot down a Sopwith Tripe when flying a DFW. The rear gunner watches my back while I try to hit as many enemies as possible. When they are damaged, they are less dangerous, even if I don't manage to shoot them down. Then if I'm deep behind enemy lines, I try to gain some altitude, but if it won't work, it's best to gather speed by diving and try to reach friendly lines. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

[Olham 164]

You're one of those "secret heroes" who never get mentioned, when it's about the "Blue Max", Hasse Wind.

Always keeping the really important goals in mind - always bringing back the valuable photos.

[Hasse Wind 46]

Speaking of crazy maneuvers, they are often dangerous because it's so easy to lose your aircraft's energy while performing them. And some planes that seem to be very agile and are able to do quick maneuvers, like the Pfalz D.III, are deceptive for inexperienced pilots, because they have a habit of losing their energy very quickly. Quick stunts may save your pilot's life for a while, but when your plane has blown all its energy and you find yourself flying just over the treetops, surrounded by enemies, they won't help you anymore (unless the AI loses its ability to fight close to ground). It's very important to avoid such situations, and your tactic of switching targets in your Albatros when a Camel or some other nimble opponent is turning and rolling all over the sky is absolutely the correct one. But it's so easy to become fixated on a target and keep hunting it till the end, even if it's the wrong thing to do. I don't particularly enjoy flying the really nervous rotary fighters (Camels & Fokkers), but even they benefit greatly from maintaining altitude.

[Olham 164]

When HitR was new, I was not a good pilot at all, and found TrackIR still quite straining.

Now that I have become better, the Fokker Dr.1 is a joyride, I must say!

I feel almost invincible in it!

(Did perhaps MvR feel the same on his last flight?)

[Hasse Wind 46]

When HitR was new, I was not a good pilot at all, and found TrackIR still quite straining.

Now that I have become better, the Fokker Dr.1 is a joyride, I must say!

I feel almost invincible in it!

(Did perhaps MvR feel the same on his last flight?)

 

Possibly. And it's a very dangerous feeling to have, as I'm sure you've learned to know it the hard way in OFF!

[Javito1986 14]

When I was flying the Camel I was very acrobatic in flight. I'd throw that little plane every which way, and was perfectly capable of clinging to just about any German plane's tail, or breaking away if I came under fire.

 

These days I fly the SE5, a rock steady, stable gun platform. I don't do anything fancy with it. Maintain altitude, pick a target, dive, aim for the pilot, plane falls, and I climb back up to my original altitude and rinse and repeat. Nothing to it! SE's less flashy than the Camel but you're more likely to survive the war in it.

[Olham 164]

Well, actually rather not so hard - we have reincarnation here in OFF - MvR didn't .

[Slartibartfast 153]

Must admit I am still flying the Sopwith Strutter and against the early types I generally get into turning fights which against the Einnie is fairly straightforward for the newer types though it gets more interesting as I have to calculate on if I can take my opponent in one pass but I generally go wagon wheel and hope the rear gunner gets lucky but I seem to be able to turn inside most of the fighters around so thats what I do... other times I will attempt to dive away and hedge hop...

[Hasse Wind 46]

Must admit I am still flying the Sopwith Strutter and against the early types I generally get into turning fights which against the Einnie is fairly straightforward for the newer types though it gets more interesting as I have to calculate on if I can take my opponent in one pass but I generally go wagon wheel and hope the rear gunner gets lucky but I seem to be able to turn inside most of the fighters around so thats what I do... other times I will attempt to dive away and hedge hop...

 

You could shoot down Einies with the T Model, if it was able to fly.

 

For a two-seater challenge, join a BE.2 squadron in 1917 and go looking for a fight.

[Hellshade 110]

I don't have a ton of experience in the DR 1 but in many ways it's like the Sopwith Triplane I love so much, only much twitchier and with twice the firepower.

 

I can't give you specifics on DR 1s vs Camels but I can tell you how I train to fly any craft I am interested in.

 

The best way (for myself at least) to learn how to fly a plane is to setup a bunch of Quick Combats where it's you against one other manueverable plane (Camel, Triplane, DR 1, etc) on Ace level. Then your job is to get on his tail and stay there. Don't shoot him down. See how long you can stay on his tail through all of his manuevers without him losing you and, if he does lose you, how to quickly recover to get back on his 6' again. Try and stay on his tail for at least 5 or more minutes (before shootingt hem down) on multiple fights and you'll be ready for the next step. As a little help, I will say that if they are more manuverable than you, stay farther back so you have more time to react to their defensive tactics. If your plane is equal or better than theirs, then slowly get closer and closer as you get better at staying on their tail. Pretty soon you'll see that you can stay so close on their tail without them losing you that you can open fire and have hit percentages regularly at 50% and above.

 

After you've gotten really good at staying on his tail...set up Quick Combats with 2 enemy planes so that now you have to watch your 6 while trying to stay on the tail of one of them. Practice switching targets when possible. Keep adding planes each time you start to feel confident that you can handle the number of planes you are against.

 

I must admit that at first I hated the single gun tripe because of it's lack of firepower. But once I mastered manuevering her in the skies, I was able to knock down a great many planes in a single mission using limited fuel and ammo because I could get exactly the firing solution I needed to hit them nearly every time. With good discipline to check your 6 regularly so you don't get target fixation, you'll live quite long and have a successful career.

 

I admit that real pilots rarely if ever got that much training on the planes they flew. But I got tired of making new pilots constantly so I decided I better learn to fly. Once you have mastered the flying, the fighting is a breeze. Especially with twin guns. You'll be the terror of the skies, Olham. Good luck up there.

 

Hellshade

[carrick58 23]

Stay High and sometimes due Hammerheads. Helps a little

[Olham 164]

Hellshade: You'll be the terror of the skies, Olham.

 

Oh yeah, I am already!

And I wanted to travel round England before the war began - I think I can forget about that!

 

Your learning method is a very good idea - I think MvR would have liked it.

[Hellshade 110]

Training Mission (3:38) 1080HD

 

I'm not very good on the DR1 but here's a quick example of how I train. If you take the time to do it repeatedly it will teach you how to master the FM of nearly any aircraft.

 

Hellshade

Edited January 10, 2011 by Hellshade

[TaillyHo 2]

Interesting topic, Olham. I wonder whether 'aerobatics' are used more for evading or attacking?

 

Hellshade's video (above) makes the pertinent observation (for me!) that throttle control is as important when pursuing/attacking as stick and rudder. Certainly in my 'usual' Strutter vs Einie battles, I spend too much time 're-acquiring' my target because I've had to swerve away to avoid running into the slower Fokker. Maybe that full-on/ full-off 'switch' (rather than a graded throttle 'lever') was precisely what was needed for dog-fighting.

 

I've been judging my improvement in OFF by my accuracy % average for each pilot ... but Hellshade's challenge of seeing how long you can simply stay tucked in behind an EA would be a whole new ball-game!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, often fly Camels or SE5a's

 

I'm afraid I'm one crazy sonofabitch when it comes to dogfighting...I would be a real 20 minuter if I flew like I do in OFF.

I'm extremely aggressive in combat, and really take the fight to the Enemy

 

Though my current Pilot seems to have a charmed life!....I have crashed once, but survived...I think if I worried to much, he'll be dead in days...but he keeps getting Kills...though I'm sure, his days are numbered, but he'll go out in a blaze of Glory

[Olham 164]

Haha, you beat me by days, Hellshade! I also "recorded a flight with the Dr.1 yesterday,

but the cutting and editing may well take some more time.

 

The video shows well, how incredibly agile the Dr. 1 was.

It often feels, as if it didn't have to follow the rules of gravitiy as much as other aircraft,

or the rules of inertia of masses in motion. The advantage of instability.

 

The video also shows, how much sense an olive drab or other camo makes on upper surfaces.

Whilst the blue undersides don't disguise a craft much, due to the silhouette effect against the

brighter sky, the upper surface camo may well make you lose a craft out of your sight.

 

TaillyHo: I wonder whether 'aerobatics' are used more for evading or attacking?

 

The video also answers that IMHO - if you want to get a pilot, who uses them for evasive maneuvres,

you'll have to use them for your attacks, too. But the starter is mostly the evading one.

And you're right - throttle or blip-switch control make a big difference.

 

I confess, that since getting TrackIR it took me almost a year, to become a halfways decent combat pilot

on the Albatros, and now on the Dr.1, I saw that I had really learned a bit - I can handle it much better.

Still far from being a Werner Voss though!

Edited January 10, 2011 by Olham

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

I concur with all the sage advice and thoughts put forth here by the other OFF veterans. I also use Hellshade's exact same training method when starting in an unfamiliar aircraft. As to the use of aerobatics in a dogfight, I recommend using every trick in your book as needed, with the caveat that your first thought should always be to keep your alt and energy. Those two are without a doubt "life" in aerial combat. And never ignore Dicta Boelcke:

 

1. Try to secure advantages before attacking. If possible keep the sun behind you.

 

*'Advantages' for WWI aircraft included: speed, height, surprise, performance and numbers.

 

Speed - the pilot with the faster of two machines has control over the combat. He has the choice to break off combat and retire. The slower machine can not catch him. The pilot of a slower machine must stay on the defense. He can not run to safety. A fast moving aircraft can perform elaborate manoeuvres, giving its pilot many options. A machine flying close to its stall speed can do little beyond wallowing in a more or less straight line. Aircraft engines available in 1914 and 1915 provided just enough thrust to keep machines airborne at 80 mph, and not much more. Level flight was fine, but climbing to a higher altitude took several minutes and cut air speed nearly in half. Diving, on the other hand, could add half again to a plane's top speed. By 1916, engine power and speed increased. By the end of the war, aircraft were operating regularly at speeds over 130 mph. Speed was critical.

 

Height - From the advantage of flying above his opponent, a pilot had more control over how and where the fight takes place. He could dive upon his opponent, gaining a sizable speed advantage for a hit and run attack. Or, if the enemy had too many advantages, numbers for instance, a pilot fly away with a good head start. On average, WWI aircraft climbed slowly. Altitude was a hard earned 'potential energy' store not to be given away capriciously.

 

Surprise - getting the first shot before one's opponent is prepared to return fire was the 'safest' and preferred method for attack. Most air victories were achieved in the first pass. Without all-seeing devices like radar, a pilot could approach his foe stealthily, using clouds, haze or even using the enemy aircraft's own wings or tail to conceal his approach. The glare of the sun, especially, provided an effective hiding spot.

 

Performance- Knowing the strengths, weakness and capabilities of your own aircraft, and that of your foe, was also critical. Who was faster, who could turn tighter, how many were there, etc.? He argued against foolish acts of 'heroism.' If he could not 'secure advantages,' he would not attack. One of Boelcke's pupils, Manfred von Richthofen, learned this rule very well and became the war's top scoring ace.

 

A documented example of Boelcke 'securing advantages' took place on 17 September 1916. Boelcke and his pilots intercepted a flight of bombers and fighters crossing the lines. He chose not to attack right away, but had his Jasta climb higher above the bombers, keeping themselves between the bombers and the sun. There they circled and waited. When the bomber pilots, observers and fighter escort pilots were preoccupied with the destruction they were causing on the ground, Boelcke signaled for his pilots to attack. Several enemy aircraft went down and Jasta 2 lost no one.*

 

2. Always carry through an attack when you have started it.

 

*Rookie pilots would start a fight, but instinct (fear) would convince them to break it off and run. This inevitably presented the rookie's tail to his opponent's guns, making the rookie an easy victory for his enemy. Boelcke learned that it was far better to stay and continue mixing it up -- waiting for his opponent to make mistakes or flee -- than to break and run. To turn tail and run was to surrender most, if not all, of the advantages a pilot might have had.

 

As an example, when Manfred von Richthofen met British ace Lanoe Hawker in November 1916, each persisted in trying to get on the other's tail. Both stuck to Boelcke's second dictum. When their endless circling had brought them down near the ground behind German lines, Hawker had to chose between landing and capture or fleeing. He chose to flee. Richthofen was then able to get behind him and shot him down.*

 

 

3. Fire only at close range and only when your opponent is properly in your sights.

 

*A common rookie's urge was to start blasting away upon sighting his first enemy machine. Shots taken at ranges of 1000 yards stood little chance of hitting their mark. The rattle of machine gun fire would alert the intended target and gave them time to react.

 

The machine guns available for aircraft during the Great War were not highly accurate at longer ranges. Add to that the difficulty of aiming from a moving, bouncing gun platform at a fast moving target and it is a marvel that anyone ever hit anything. Boelcke preferred to fly to within 100 yards or less before firing, to ensure hitting what he aimed at with his opening burst. Once the rattle of his guns was heard, the advantage of surprise was gone, so it was best to make that first shot most effective.

 

Another aspect of making each shot count was the limited supply of ammunition carried in WWI aircraft -- usually only several hundred rounds. This could amount to less than 60 seconds of sustained fire. Reloading in the air varied from dangerous to impossible. Spraying the sky with lead in hopes of hitting something, eventually, was not an option. Shots had to be chosen carefully. Early in the war, when a sense of chivalry still held sway, some men allowed their opponents to depart if they were out of ammunition or had jammed guns. Total war did not allow such courtesies to last for long.*

 

 

4. Always keep your eye on your opponent, and never let yourself be deceived by ruses.

 

*The first part, 'keeping your eye on your opponent,' sounds obvious enough, but it needed to be stated. In the hustle and bustle of an air fight it was easy to lose sight of your adversary. A restatement of this rule might be: never assume you know where your opponent is or will be. If a pilot 'lost' his foe, the advantage shifted to the foe. A successful pilot did not allow himself to be distracted from his opponent.

 

Ruses. It was not an uncommon practice for a pilot to feign being hit, going into a supposedly uncontrolled spin or dive, in order to exit a fight that was not going well. This practice traded on the chivalry of their opponents. To continue hammering a man who was already going down, was thought unsportsmanlike. Boelcke recognized that too many enemy were being allowed to escape and return to fight another day. War for national survival was not sport. He taught against the accepted notion that once a machine began to spin down, that one could move on. If it was a ruse, the enemy pilot would pull out at the last moment and either escape or return to attack, perhaps now having gained the advantage of surprise. Boelcke wanted his pupils to follow their opponent down. Make sure they were out of the fight or resume the fight if necessary.*

 

5. In any form of attack it is essential to assail your opponent from behind.

 

*Firing at a machine flying across one's path required 'leading' the shot -- aiming ahead of a moving target to compensate for its speed. While a few pilots were adept at the mental calculations necessary and good areal marksmen, most were much less adept. The velocity of a moving gun platform, the speed of bullets plus the speed and direction of a moving target could be a lot to consider in the heat of battle. Furthermore, in deflection firing, the target could cross the stream of fire whose bullets were 200 feet or more apart. Such crossing gave less exposure to the bullets.

 

Head-on attacks or head-to-tail attacks required little or no calculated deflection in aim. Head-on attack, however, exposed one directly to the enemy's guns. Far safer and more effective to have one's target and bullet stream all traveling in more or less the same direction. This required little or no 'leading,' and exposed the target to a greater concentration of fire.

 

Because of the prevalence of attack from the rear, aircraft design adapted to allow for rear firing guns in two-seaters and larger bombers.*

 

 

6. If your opponent dives on you, do not try to evade his onslaught, but fly to meet it.

 

*This rule is related to dictum #2 above. The instinctive reaction of many rookies was to turn and flee from an approaching attacker -- especially a diving one. This simply presented their tail to the attacker, usually with disastrous results. Boelcke taught that a pilot had to conquer that instinct. Turning to face the attack could force the attacker onto the defensive, or at least keep the situation unsettled, which was far better than presenting your tail. Even though climbing to meet an attack would reduce speed, it was better to try to bring one's own guns to bear than flee.*

 

 

7. When over the enemy's lines never forget your own line of retreat.

 

*If a pilot chose to flee a superior force, or was coming down with damaged machine, it was critical to spend what little time he might have going in the right direction. This rule sounds as though it is stating the obvious, but Boelcke found it necessary to include. More than a few pilots came down behind enemy lines because they got confused and lost their way. In WWI, areal navigation was done mostly by sight. Taking regular note of landmarks helped a pilot get his bearings quickly, perhaps making the difference between safety and captivity.*

 

 

8. For the Staffel: Attack on principle in groups of four or six. When the fight breaks up into a series of single combats, take care that several do not go for one opponent.

 

*In the first year or so of WWI, air combat was more of a one-on-one affair. The early aces, like Pegoud, Garros, Boelcke and Immelmann, hunted the skies alone. Later in the war the sheer number of machines in the sky increased. Several reconnaissance machines traveled together for mutual protection, further protected by escorting fighters. Boelcke recognized that the days of the lone hunter were over. Many young pilots, however, still came to the front expecting to dash valiantly into battle alone as an errant knight, only to be quickly overwhelmed by multiple enemies.

 

Boelcke tirelessly lectured his pupils on the need for teamwork -- sometimes scolding them for acting too independently. Attacking in a group allowed the leader to concentrate his attention exclusively on his target, while his 'wingmen' protected his tail. Air battles later in the war could involve dozens of aircraft from each side at the same time. The sky could become a swirling tangle of machines. When 'your' side was at a numerical disadvantage, it was especially important not to double up on one opponent. The concentrated fire was of dubious value, since you were just as likely to get in each other's way as hit the enemy. Doubling up also left an enemy machine somewhere unbothered and free to tail one of your side's machines. Later in the war, teamwork became the primary key to success and survival.

 

Air battles later in the war could involve dozens of aircraft from each side at the same time. The sky could become a swirling tangle of machines. When 'your' side was at a numerical disadvantage, it was especially important not to double up on one opponent. The concentrated fire was of dubious value, since you were just as likely to get in each other's way as hit the enemy. Doubling up also left an enemy machine somewhere unbothered and free to tail one of your side's machines. Later in the war, teamwork became the primary key to success and survival.*

 

 

Above quoted from Johannes Werner's biography of Boelcke, Knight of Germany, (1990, Greenhill. Original German, 1933 Boelcke: der Mensch ) Text between asterisks (*) are later interpretative commentary by Micheal Shackelford.

 

 

 

.

Edited January 10, 2011 by RAF_Louvert

[carrick58 23]

When faced with overwhelming numbers or dis advantage, I use a simple maneuver . I get up to ramming speed and " Run like ELL"

[Olham 164]

...which may not get you too far in a Dr.1 chased by a SPAD XIII or an S.E.5a, Carrick.

Sometimes, you can only fight - or try the "flying below grass root level" method.

[Waldemar Kurtz 1]

given that my most common 'mount' is the Fokker E.III or a two-seater-- I have to use tactics that will always work well against faster and more agile enemies.

 

I use the nose-to-nose turn, or "counter turn" all the time. if somebody attacks me I turn against them and stay in that turn as long as I can get away with. the AI tends to keep turning in one direction so if they're turning in a clockwise turn I'll go counter-clockwise (or vice versa). this allows me to get in numerous snap shots against the enemy's engine. of course, the same holds true for the enemy. but it's better than having a Nieuport 17 sitting on the tail of my Fokker E.III and sending me down in seconds. this at least grants me a few minutes of life. if another adversary moves in to get behind me I just change directions and perform a counter-turn against the more threatening opponent.

 

the variation of this is that sometimes instead of performing a flat counter-turn I will climb or dive, and then move towards the same altitude as the enemy (basically just using a high or low yo-yo turning against the enemy). with this variant I can make it even harder for the enemy to attack. I prefer the high yo-yo-- because if they get their sights on me I can just push the nose down and it gives them even less time to make a shot.

 

if given a chance I try to have one of my wingmen attack the fellow on my tail. this will force them to break away. I then turn immediately on this enemy and start shooting him up. I usually don't spend more than one solid gunnery pass on the enemy because my wingman is trying to shoot him down. it makes life easier for my wingman if I deal some damage-- and then I can clear his tail if things get bad for him.

 

I've learned to not be TOO picky about victories in the Fokker E.III-- the main thing is to get home alive. the second thing is to have my wingmen survie. the third thing is to neutralize the enemy's actions. and lastly, to score some victories. if I can rough up a Nieuport 17 so badly that he runs away it usually means that I have the other three to worry about. so not getting a victory seems better than getting killed.

 

I almost never use acrobatics. about the most I'll try is a flat-scissors or a defensive spiral (which can work well against sesquiplane types)

 

I aslo like to use diving turns because the Nieuports can't follow without their wings snapping off.