Slartibartfast 153 Posted June 6, 2011 (edited) All courtesy of the Farnborough Airshow... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7512732.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7510364.stm The F-22 does have good nose pointing ability... and I found that the Eurofighter display was very boring... Edited June 6, 2011 by Slartibartfast Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted June 6, 2011 The F-22 does have good nose pointing ability... and I found that the Eurofighter display was very boring... Its ability to pull up when it looks like its out of energy is very impressive - just watching that gives me nightmares from when I used to dogfight it in Allied Force! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast 153 Posted June 6, 2011 I remember flying online years ago with Janes FA and annoying the F-22 drivers with a Eurofighter... always how the hell did I do that??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted June 6, 2011 I suppose they are not far off each other in certain areas of airframe agility - in AF the Typhoon seems to be a similar flight model but with one advantage that makes it better in the guns only fight - which anyway is down to the pilot - so you must have been good. Shame that's the only area the Typhoon can compete with the F-22 in. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted June 6, 2011 I think that having a decent A-G capability, 12 missile-stores and that nifty IR-seeker also make it quite competitive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast 153 Posted June 6, 2011 I suppose they are not far off each other in certain areas of airframe agility - in AF the Typhoon seems to be a similar flight model but with one advantage that makes it better in the guns only fight - which anyway is down to the pilot - so you must have been good. Shame that's the only area the Typhoon can compete with the F-22 in. Not really I used their speed against them with my last hope of all last hope move... Dive inverted for the deck and pull out just before splashing... the F-22's usually lawn darted... okay sort of sneaky as if they normally made it out I was already rolling in for a face shot or a strafing shot from above... Anyway back to the real thing... yes the F-22 is nice but I think it is too much its the golden bullet at what point do you send it in ??? The Eurofighter is viable against all threats at present flying... well it is when all the software is finally sorted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted June 6, 2011 Not really I used their speed against them with my last hope of all last hope move... Dive inverted for the deck and pull out just before splashing... the F-22's usually lawn darted... okay sort of sneaky as if they normally made it out I was already rolling in for a face shot or a strafing shot from above... Anyway back to the real thing... yes the F-22 is nice but I think it is too much its the golden bullet at what point do you send it in ??? The Eurofighter is viable against all threats at present flying... well it is when all the software is finally sorted... Think it will be retired by the time we get round to doing anything about it The US experience of using Stealth since 1983 heralds tactics and capability we can only dream of - which is why we are getting the F-35, and the PAK-FA and J-20 are being developed. The US have had the money and luxury to develop cutting edge systems and fair play to them - any war they have to fly into will be totally one sided against Air and and modern IADS threats - or it can sit at home like the F-106 did for all those years - dont suppose they care because the F-35 will probably be selling like hot cakes for the next 30 years off the back of the 22 just like its predecessor the F-16 did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted June 6, 2011 Many, if not most of the air-forces that bought F-16s can't afford F-35s. I certainly don't buy into that stealth-hype: It's nice when you want to go to war with another super-power, but for bombing a third-world country (99% of today's combat-missions) it's completely pointless and ridiculously expensive. ...and I'm not quite sure if I wanna see a clash between two superpowers... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted June 6, 2011 Many, if not most of the air-forces that bought F-16s can't afford F-35s. I certainly don't buy into that stealth-hype: It's nice when you want to go to war with another super-power, but for bombing a third-world country (99% of today's combat-missions) it's completely pointless and ridiculously expensive. ...and I'm not quite sure if I wanna see a clash between two superpowers... Well the amount of F-16 operators in 1980 didn't amount to anywhere near the amount there are today over 30 years later Stealth is combat proven and is not hype - the fact that countries are going out of their way to develop such airframes really tells you something. Stealth is such a massive advantage and the US have had years to refine tactics to make the most of it - combine it with Sensors like EODAS its as good as it gets. Its sad to see that jets like the F-16 are finally outclassed in everyway but nothing lasts forever.........thats progress! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted June 6, 2011 The F-16 came into service as a low-cost fighter and later got technologically beefed up. Most "poor" countries do fly A/B models (some upgraded, some not) or early C/D-Models. The step up from an F-16 Block 52+ to an F-35 is quite something. In 30 years, most of today's F-35s will have been upgraded and new airframes will already have the features, leading to constant or increasing (inflation) costs. F-35s aren't quite that low-tech and user-friendly as the F-16As exported in the 1980s. The JSF is gonna need a lot more MX (big $) and care than those Vipers. That is not gonna change. So unless the JSF will be exported with huge MX-packages or training-packages or other goodies to the buying country, export will pretty much be limited to NATO and other "allies" in the first world. In 30 years, there will be a lot more dones around, so some countries might sack their manned fighters altogether. Concerning the newly arisen stealth-race: True, there are more countries working on stealth-designs, than the US or the F-35-consortium. But both projects known today (PAK-FA and J-20) are projects from countries that are - at least in the short term - more interested in the prestigeous news of an "own" wonderfighter, than an actual introduction into service. Especially Russia is a couple of years away from being able to AFFORD such fighters - look at the rate they're accepting their Su-34s, an aircraft that first flew 15 years ago... Stealth-technology mostly has advantages for those that exclusively use it. A war between two stealth-countries mostly kills that advantage. The F-35 is a fine fighter and will certainly be atop most other aircraft in terms of strike- and attack-capability. The question (at leat to me) is what it could do without, to make it simpler and cheaper. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted June 7, 2011 Many of these so-called Third World countries have crap for an AF but a formidable ADA network. Syria is rumored to have SA-17s and 22s. You can bet Israel wants F-35s to let them operate closer to those guys than their F-16s will let them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) The countries that have such a network can be counted on less than a hand. Syria and Iran have an axe to grind in their conflict with Israel. Then, there's still the question of expertise and knowledge. Edited June 7, 2011 by Toryu Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted June 7, 2011 (edited) The step up from an F-16 Block 52+ to an F-35 is quite something. Yes so is the capability of the F-35 though! The JSF is gonna need a lot more MX (big $) and care than those Vipers. That is not gonna change. Who cares - blame whoever allocated the budget True, there are more countries working on stealth-designs, than the US or the F-35-consortium. But both projects known today (PAK-FA and J-20) are projects from countries that are - at least in the short term - more interested in the prestigeous news of an "own" wonderfighter, than an actual introduction into service. Have the Russians or Chinese quoted this? The question (at leat to me) is what it could do without, to make it simpler and cheaper. You could reduce the computing capability. The F-35B is always up for debate - but a supersonic stealth Harrier thats a lot safer to fly cant be bad. At the end of the day its coming into service now so only time will tell how it does in conflicts and sales. Edited June 7, 2011 by MigBuster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted June 7, 2011 Many of these so-called Third World countries have crap for an AF but a formidable ADA network. Syria is rumored to have SA-17s and 22s. You can bet Israel wants F-35s to let them operate closer to those guys than their F-16s will let them. Yes you can understand that - If you have to fly over any IADS in the future - given the choice between a jet where there is a good chance you will be fired at and one you likely wont be fired at, pilots are going to be glad of the F-35 - which should make the job safer and easier for now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Toryu 156 Posted June 8, 2011 for now Exactly. We'll see how it does after advances with integrated AD Systems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted June 8, 2011 Still better than the F-16 which will become a death trap. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
