Ok, so I finally have SF2V... but

[+comrpnt 16]

Hi folks, I bumped this from the TW forum as, so far, no responses. Perhaps I'll get more luck here.

 

Howdy, long time no post. Finally I now have SF2V and I'm just getting up-to-speed with it - especially single scripted missions (which is what you'd expect if you've seen my previous SF1 work here).

 

Well, I say getting-up-to-speed but actually I've stalled.

 

Is it me, or does SF2V have a 'feature' regarding starting single scripted missions on the ground with user and AI aircraft. In the past I've always started my missions on the ground, either on the ramp, or lined up behind an AI flight of aircraft as they prepare for take-off. All was well (in SF1). But not any more it seems - or is it just me?

 

Taking a standard simple scripted mission off-the-shelf from my WOV (SF1) collection - immediately the mission starts the AI flight all appear (briefly) set up in front of me in 'flying' formation (USBomber), gear up and going no where. Then they dropped to the deck and blow up. Mmm, what is going on? From the debug panel the AI behaviour was set to AVOID_GROUND - clearly these guys thought they were flying at mission start, despite what I'd scripted for them.

 

So, here's my question: Does SF2 now ignore the script settings of StartOnGround=True?

 

Here's hoping that someone can fill me in with the gossip that I may have missed these past months since version 2 was released. Is this a known problem for scripted single missions?

 

Thanks in advance, kind regards,

 

comrpnt.

[+Piecemeal 450]

Nice to meet you on CA mate.

I may have read the message the wrong way, but what you're saying is that you've attempted to use a scripted mission in SF2V from your WOV install? If so, I think I read somewhere else in the SF2 forum that people have been having problems using missions created by a third party (Kreelin's?) mission editor.

You probably know this anyway but all of the SF2 series have a built-in mission editor created by TK, which I've used on a load of occasions to create scripted missions of all kinds. Not a bad little feature either.

As regards what I mentioned about third party editors, I'll see if I can locate the discussion and place a shortcut here for you.

One more thing about the series two, for me anyway; when you're making the initial switch from series one, some things can be a little confusing at first. But within a short space of time you'll find that it's a lot easier to handle. not to mention the file structure being a lot tidier and a lot easier to navigate.

 

Edit:

Here's a shortcut to the discussion I mentioned above. Hope it's of help to you:

 

http://combatace.com/topic/65721-kreelin-mission-editor/

Edited June 23, 2011 by Piecemeal

[+comrpnt 16]

Hi Piecemeal, thanks.

 

In terms of the way I think about the set of TW sims. To me WOV, WOE, SFP1 and SFG are all SF1 games. SFV2, SFE2 etc are SF2 games.

 

First I took a WOV (SF1) mission I scripted, and tried it on SF2V - no joy. AI only flights won't start on the ground. So, I created a single mission in SF2V, saved it, and compared the SF1-compatible (WOV) script I wrote with the auto-generated SF2 script I'd just saved.

 

A few minor changes, fair enough, but nothing radical. So, I tweaked my original WOV script and tried again. Same result. AI only flights in SF2 do not appear to start on the ground. Instead they assume a flight configuration and formation, at the start location I specify, and then crash and burn.

 

I can't believe that I'm the first to notice this - so really at this stage I'm just looking for confirmation that this is the way things are in SF2 with starting AI flights on the ground. In which case, I'll stick with SF1 'cause at least it does exactly what I say, not some rough approximation of what I want.

 

BTW - thanks for the link. I'll check it out. Up to now I've always written my mission scripts using a standard Windows plain text editor which has served me well :-)

 

Cheers, regards, comrpnt.

[+Piecemeal 450]

In my experience when using TK's stock mission editor there don't seem to be any problems of that nature with AI aircraft from either side when flying scrpited missions. I'd suggest trying out a simple scripted mission using the editor in SF2V, these will be saved in the 'Missions' folder in .MSN file format. Open the file then with notepad and compare the differences in the setup. Maybe that could answer some questions.

[+comrpnt 16]

Mmm, ok. When you say "TK's stock mission editor" do you mean the wizard that is part of the Create Mission menu inside SF2 itself - or is this some other separate utility that I've missed along the way? I did use the Create Mission wizard to do exactly as you say, and saved the results - and it gave me a few new attributes to consider, over and above those I'd been using for years with the SF1-era games - like WOV and WOE.

 

One thing I have found out just now - with further tests - is that flights where you're the lead and have n wingmen are fine and behave as expected, with everyone in the right place. BUT, define another flight - with only AI aircraft in it, and StartOnGround=TRUE, and chaos rules. Smoke, fire and failure all round :-(

 

Again, I may have missed an essential element of my mission script, specific to SF2, but I can't see it (yet).

 

Cheers, regards, comrpnt.

[FastCargo 412]

Mmm, ok. When you say "TK's stock mission editor" do you mean the wizard that is part of the Create Mission menu inside SF2 itself - or is this some other separate utility that I've missed along the way? I did use the Create Mission wizard to do exactly as you say, and saved the results - and it gave me a few new attributes to consider, over and above those I'd been using for years with the SF1-era games - like WOV and WOE.

 

One thing I have found out just now - with further tests - is that flights where you're the lead and have n wingmen are fine and behave as expected, with everyone in the right place. BUT, define another flight - with only AI aircraft in it, and StartOnGround=TRUE, and chaos rules. Smoke, fire and failure all round :-(

 

Again, I may have missed an essential element of my mission script, specific to SF2, but I can't see it (yet).

 

Cheers, regards, comrpnt.

 

I had this problem after a particular patch was installed for SF2V for the Classified Mission Mod. Afterward, the KC-135 that starts at takeoff would do exactly what you mentioned...start with it's gear up and crash immediately. I forgot what I did that fixed it....check the Classified Mission Mod and look at the specific mission to see what is different.

 

FC

[Murphy'S 15]

Already tried it, ai flights appears no more on flight decks ( even if told to do So), they land on carriers at the end of mission but they do not take off from.

 

Asked the question to TK, He told me it's by design.

 

Maybe Time to make a kind of petition

[+JimBeamer5 23]

Paul, I may be speaking out of turn but I'm pretty sure Murphy's is correct. Only your flight will start on the ground, all the others will spawn over their start airfield. It's a "feature" not a bug. As to why they immediately crash and burn, that's a new one on me. What I can say is that when I design a mission with moving ground objects, if I don't give them waypoints that just stop, naturally enough. I assume your giving your AI flights proper waypoints, so I'm flummoxed. I've never had a problem with AI aircraft - with the exception that sometimes they run out of fuel if I give them too long a mission.

 

JB5

[Murphy'S 15]

They can not take off from carriers but they can do it from ground airfield ( already saw them doing this)

[+JimBeamer5 23]

Strange, I just did a mission and the MH-47's took off normally - the C-130 Tanker spawned over the airfield. Yeah, strange.

 

JB5

[+comrpnt 16]

Hi guys, perhaps I have opened a can of worms here - or simply exposed a 'feature' to a wider audience. But for me, the whole idea of spawning AI flights in formation over an airfield at mission start "sucks", in comparison to having the AI flight taxi out and take off in front of me on the taxiway. I want to be part of that flight, to take off just behind, form up with them, and then head on over to the target area together. All of my previous mission packs for the SF1 series relied on this behaviour from the AI aircraft, to add to the immersion.

 

In response to your previous replies to this post - and many thanks for the info so far everyone - I'm starting to build up a picture of what SF2 will give me. Also, FC, cheers! I'll walk through you MSN details for the classified mission to see if I can gleam any insight into the KC-135 ground-based start.

 

As for my own tests - so far they show that an AI flight starts airborne, regardless of the mission script definitions. The only piece that seems to be used is the x/y coord of the lead aircraft.

 

Subject to details from FC, this 'feature' I'm seeing kills SF2 for me. In the past with SF1 (post Oct 2008 patch) I had to bite my lip with my static aircraft pointing off at a skewed angle due to a heading bug (who remembers that?), and now with SF2 my mission starting positions are screwed. Argh!

 

(Rant over)

 

Back to the mission design drawing board.

 

Regards, comrpnt.

[+PureBlue 71]

Welcome back mate, please post your example msn file here.

 

All I can say is, AI flights do start from airfield runways, no problems at all there. We just need to find what's different in your SF1 msn file to a SF2 msn file.

 

Carrier starts for AI only flights though, that seems to not work as desired. BUT there is a workaround. I've seen it in Rising Sun, many AI flights taking off from carriers at mission start. So it's possible but not as easy as it was in SF1.

 

 

On the other hand, The in-game Mission Generator (not mission designer IMHO), sets up the mission a little differently. It will arrange the StartTime for AI flights so that the TimeOnTarget values will be close with other flights in the game. It's a way of guaranteiing good action in the mission.. I'll generate a few MSN files with it and post here. Because the in-game ME doesn't come with SF2V, only with the EXP2 AFAIK?

[+comrpnt 16]

Cheers - nice to be back. Here is a simple mission which illustrates the trouble I'm having:

 

There are a few new definitions I've not seen before - marked with ??? below. As you can probably tell, I based the structure of this MSN on one I saved from the in-game mission creator.

 

//                                     comrpnt - simple circuit AI sqn test
[MissionHeader]
AircraftType=F-4D_67
MissionMap=VietnamSEA
MissionType=RECON
StartDate=05/01/1969
StartTime=10:00

[Weather]
WeatherType=CLEAR
WeatherAlt=2000
WeatherThickness=10
HasHighLayer=FALSE
HighLayerAlt=4000
FogAmount=0.60
ContrailAlt=4000
//                                     Force AI to take off heading North
StartWindDirection=180.0
StartWindSpeed=0.0
WindGustingAmount=0.60

[MissionData]
GeneratedMission=FALSE
AdjustStartPosition=FALSE
AdjustBaseWaypoint=FALSE
CreateStaticAircraft=TRUE
CreateHelpFlight=FALSE
//                                     There's a war on so max everything out!
EnemyAirActivity=3
EnemyAirDefenseActivity=3
FriendlyAirActivity=3
FriendlyAirDefenseActivity=3
//                                     Which AircraftMission below are you?
PlayerMissionID=2
PlayerPositionID=1
MissionNumber=1

//*****************************************************************************
//                                     Da Nang origin=636000,492000
//                                     Leading squadron
[AircraftMission001]
AircraftType=F-4D_67
Name=Anvil
FormationType=USFighter
Texture=USAFCamo1
Squadron=555TFS
AircraftNumber=1
Size=3
RandomChance=100
StartTime=0
MissionType=RECON
//                                     *** What does BaseArea do???
BaseArea=Da Nang Air Base
//                                     *** What does LandArea do???
LandArea=Da Nang Air Base
TargetArea=Da Nang Air Base
ObjectiveID=1
RatingForSuccess=50
StartOnGround=TRUE
CarrierBased=FALSE
Position=636000,490800,0
Heading=0
Speed=0
Alignment=FRIENDLY
AmmoPercent=100
FuelPercent=100
Loadout=Recon
TracerMixRatio=6
//                                     *** What does KillMarking do???
KillMarking=0
PilotTrainingStandard=EXCELLENT
Nation=USAF
//                                     Take off (mandatory WP)
Waypoint[01].Command=TAKEOFF
Waypoint[01].Position=636000,492000,0
Waypoint[01].Size=100
Waypoint[01].Speed=140
//                                     Depart airfield airspace (mandatory WP)
Waypoint[02].Command=DEPARTURE
Waypoint[02].Position=636000,503000,610
Waypoint[02].Size=1500
Waypoint[02].Speed=140
//                                     Head South - pick up Approach
Waypoint[03].Command=APPROACH
Waypoint[03].Position=646000,471000,2510
Waypoint[03].Size=1500
Waypoint[03].Speed=100
Waypoint[03].Objective=TRUE
//                                     On finals
Waypoint[04].Command=LAND_LINEUP
Waypoint[04].Position=636000,481000,1210
Waypoint[04].Size=1500
Waypoint[04].Speed=70
//                                     Land
Waypoint[05].Command=LAND_TOUCHDOWN
Waypoint[05].Position=636000,491125,0
Waypoint[05].Size=50
Waypoint[05].Speed=55

//                                     Da Nang origin=636000,492000
//                                     PLAYER'S aircraft - lined up behind Sqn
[AircraftMission002]
AircraftType=F-4D_67
Name=Bison
FormationType=Single
Texture=USAFCamo1
Squadron=555TFS
AircraftNumber=4
Size=1
RandomChance=100
StartTime=60
MissionType=RECON
BaseArea=Da Nang Air Base
LandArea=Da Nang Air Base
TargetArea=Da Nang Air Base
ObjectiveID=1
RatingForSuccess=50
StartOnGround=TRUE
CarrierBased=FALSE
Position=636204,490680,0
Heading=260
Speed=0
Alignment=FRIENDLY
AmmoPercent=100
FuelPercent=100
Loadout=Recon
TracerMixRatio=6
KillMarking=0
PilotTrainingStandard=EXCELLENT
Nation=USAF
//                                     Take off (mandatory WP)
Waypoint[01].Command=TAKEOFF
Waypoint[01].Position=636000,492000,0
Waypoint[01].Size=100
Waypoint[01].Speed=140
//                                     Depart airfield airspace (mandatory WP)
Waypoint[02].Command=DEPARTURE
Waypoint[02].Position=636000,503000,600
Waypoint[02].Size=1500
Waypoint[02].Speed=140
//                                     Head South - pick up Approach
Waypoint[03].Command=APPROACH
Waypoint[03].Position=646100,471000,2500
Waypoint[03].Size=1500
Waypoint[03].Speed=100
Waypoint[03].Objective=TRUE
//                                     On finals
Waypoint[04].Command=LAND_LINEUP
Waypoint[04].Position=636000,481000,1200
Waypoint[04].Size=1500
Waypoint[04].Speed=70
//                                     Land
Waypoint[05].Command=LAND_TOUCHDOWN
Waypoint[05].Position=636000,491120,0
Waypoint[05].Size=50
Waypoint[05].Speed=55

//                                     What do these definitions do???
[Callsign]
GroundCallsignID=7
FACCallsignID=1
TACCCallsignID=1

//end of MSN file

 

All help and guidance gratefully received.

 

Regards, comrpnt.

[+PureBlue 71]

I see what you mean now.

If you setup a second AI flight to takeoff from the same airfield as yourself, with similar takeoff times, AI flights crash and burn.

Same thing happens in the Classified Mission Mod. The KC-135 will spawn a few meters high and just drop to burn on the runway.

 

If I space out the AI flight, for example with Starttime=17.0, they start the mission in the air at cruise speed over the airfield. Was it like this before?

 

Also, there are still problems with AI carrier based flights taking off from their carrier..

 

Something else, set PlayerPositionID=X, and I think it should've let me fly wingman? No easy luck there.

 

I'm sure if it can be done, you'd be the man to solve it

although it seems there are a few bugs in there for sure..

Edited June 25, 2011 by PureBlue

[+PureBlue 71]

Hey comrpnt,

 

I think you should check this out with the latest Aug 2011 patch.

 

It seems that, AI flights taking off from carriers problem is fixed.

 

See the posts here: http://bbs.thirdwire.com/phpBB3w/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8584#p53599