whats the secret?

[hurricane3 2]

Been trying out the Rittmiester falls mission, I didn't do anything with the editor files , but took a chance and got all the plane skins, and some effects files. When I try the mission in hard or medium ,I can't see the other planes, when I fly it in easy I can spot the other planes but can't seem to get close enough to hit them. I also find planes that I've been shooting at end up just sitting on the ground, not shot down ,but it's as if they just decided to land.So whats the secert for getting kills, and why mostly in easy mode are planes on the ground.I get to 0.6 miles or kilometers of a plane and think surely at this range I can hit him but no dice.

[+whiteknight06604 934]

i'm pretty sure you need to be much closer than half a mile to hit the enemy and on the easy settings the enemy has a much easier time landing so whemn they are damaged and go down they tend to land saftly rather than crash.

[33LIMA 972]

I'm not sure about that particular mission; reading the download notes it seems to be designed to provide a particular challenge ie evade the triplanes and save May before he becomes MvR's 81st. But I don't see why it should be any harder to spot or shoot down planes, in that mission, compared to FE generally. I would suggest getting the knack of things in common-or-garden Single Missions, before branching out into player-made missions.

 

I play at 'Hard' settings with all the visual aids turned off, including the inflight map which I've edited so it displays no plane icons, just your waypoints and route. Despite this, I can't say I have ever had any probs locating the bad guys. I fly mostly the Germans so rely a lot on Archie bursts; when I get closer I can then see the exhaust trails then the planes. AA fire can reach across the Lines a mile or more (as in real life) so even flying as RFC, it helps. I tend to fly precombat and postcombat in external view and pan around a lot; my flight-mates seem to be fully occupied keeping formation so it's up to me! It takes a bit of practice but I find I can manage without the aids and it's much more realistic with no target cone, waypoint cone, target box, or display read-outs on screen. If I fail to spot the enemy, they often spot me, so we generally get to meet up! Played this way, FE teaches you to maintain a good lookout, and the price of getting caught by surprise; one of the reasons I like it so much and play without the aids.

 

In Single Missions or Campaigns you are quite likely to bump into enemies en route but if you Alt+N to your objective you will usually find enemies in the vicinity. At the pre-flight planning map, as well as moving my waypoints to place them over more prominent features, I also move my 'initial point' - the waypoint before my objective - a bit further away from the objective. This gives me time to approach the objective cautiously, gaining height and with time to scan for the bad guys likely to be there somewhere, as I approach. If you are anywhere near the Lines, Archie will show the way. If not, then it's down to the Mk1 Eyeball. FE has its limits but I find it noticeably better than either OFF or RoF, at rendering distant planes on-screen, so you have time to react to them if you see them first. Even with no aids, map icons etc I just don't find locating the enemy to be a problem. I don't use padlock untill after I have acquired them visually, so as not to 'cheat'.

 

If you're firing at 0.6 (miles or Km) I'd be surprised if you hit anything, let alone get any kills, even if you have gunnery on easy mode. The only time I'd fire at that sort of range is in the hope I get a lucky hit, either so as to get someone off a flight-mate's tail or to make a fleeing enemy turn so I can cut the corner and catch him up. The 'Hard' setting gives me a realistic ammo load (Normal is more, double I think) so I can't waste my rounds, but manage to get kills just fine with just that. As in WW1 you need to get much closer, within about 100m or less. Learn where your rounds go at that range, in relation to your windscreen, centre-section bracing wires or other prominent part of each plane (In the Albatros, I use the little header tank thingy at the front end of the cylinder block) and use that as a 'battle sight'. Short bursts concentrating on the centre mass, leading the target slightly if he's crossing your line of sight. Even on 'Hard' Flight Model, I find the planes in FE are quite tractable (more so than OFF for example) and it's possible, and a lot of fun, trying to stay with a jinking target at close range. Having joystick buttons set for padlock toggle and straight ahead view helps, I find.

 

One of the neat features in FE is that planes don't just blow up, break up, go down with a dead pilot or go on fire. Engine damage can cause their prop to slow down and then stop (you may have seen this already) and they will then force land. Still counts as a kill, and if it happens to your squadron-mates in a campaign, you will see that they are generally not reported as KIA, maybe wounded at worst.

 

I would encourage anyone playing FE to make the initial effort to get used to playing with everything at 'Hard' (except enemy skill at Normal in Campaign, unless you want the extra challenge) and 'Alt+D' a couple of times to turn off the remaining on-screen aids. It's one of FE's strengths that this more rewwarding and immersive approach is not particularly difficult to follow; and it's the 'Hard' settings, not the 'Normal' ones, that are most realistic, in relation to flight model, ammo load, landing, etc.

[hurricane3 2]

Thankyou both for your replys , I guess I'am not a born fighter pilot because in hard or medium I have trouble spotting the enemy much less getting close enough to get a kill. So far I can only spot the enemy in easy mode, I just can't seem to spot them or get close enough before I get shot down.

I guess I have to keep practicing , or get a stronger pair of glasses.

[hurricane3 2]

I tried to edit my post but it didn't work, I still can't figure out why some planes are on the ground, they don't register as kills in the briefing screen, so that has me baffeled.

[33LIMA 972]

Re planes on the ground, if you mean the planes you can see if you cycle thru them using the F6 key, remember that FE puts other flights into the air, besides your own, going about their own business. I know that some of the planes I see on the ground using F6 are casualties from combats that I didn't even see, and were not shot down by my flight.

 

I'd suggest playing German for a while, and using the Roster to make sure you fly with at least 4-6 in your flight, so that you are not swamped by enemies; in FE, a combat often draws planes like moths to a candle and what looked like easy meat can turn nasty quickly, if most of the newcomers who arrive while you're otherwise occupied, are bad guys. I think it was Mannock or McCudden who said that flight leaders always had to keep an eye out for this sort of thing and be ready to disengage if things got sticky.

 

Playing German also means you will more often have the enemies pointed out to you by the black puffs of German AA fire, long before you could make out planes.

 

Back off rather than engaging, if the odds are not in your favour - eg a flight of 3-4 2-seaters is a tricky enough proposition for 4 of you so if they have an escort as well, just steer well clear and look out for easier prey instead. FE is not one of those sims where you should attack every time. Try to stay above an enemy flight, and keep a bit of distance, until you are sure you are going to engage them. If you see two groups of friendly AA bursts, steer away, or else you may end up the meat in their sandwich. Then, engage one flight only if the other draws away. Like Nelson at Trafalgar, splitting the Franco-Spanish fleet in two and dealing with one half, before the others could intervene.

 

It's not so much a matter of being an expert pilot, or a great shot. It's more about patient persistence to gain the experience, like they did in real life. You've read the books and the articles, just do what Boelcke or Mannock would have done - 'Always above, seldom on the same level, never underneath', all that sort of thing.

 

Another thing is to avoid target fixation, you may think you just need to stay behind that enemy just another few seconds to get that kill, but the instant tracers start whizzing past or whack into your plane, break hard and turn into your attacker first, or your target fixation will make you someone else's kill. Again, basic Boelcke Dicta stuff. Dogfighting and patrol-leading is what the Third Wire sims do especially well, FE in particular; better than most others, so it's not the case that you will do any better with a different sim. What worked in real life in WW1 is usually what works in FE, and likewise what got pilots killed in WW1 will have the same effect in FE.

 

Re not being able to get close enough to enemies, make sure you gain height en route to the combat area. Granted the sim will take you to your 'assigned' height if you Alt+N; but get into the habit of gaining height at every opportunity, as a matter of habit, so you can convert that to speed and overtake enemies, or stay up and clear of them if the odds aren't right. If you're below them, a tail chase will be a long one, even if you have a faster plane, and if you're in a slower one you'll never catch them unless they turn to engage. Fly an Albatros DV not a slow DRI (even then, if an SE5 really wants to break off combat, you will have trouble catching him).

 

Re getting close to enemies, scouts will often engage your flight on sight so they come to you. Once in a dogfight, if they keep turning, try a high or (more often ) low yo-yo to gain on them; don't necessarily stay in a level turn behind him, trying to gain - 'use the vertical plane, not just the horizontal'. Or watch for them to reverse their turn and jink back across your nose, a fairly regular tactic, when you can cut the corner and gain ground. If you can manage to put a round or two into them, it will often cause them to react or 'panic', by weaving or evading, and you can use this to close the range. Keep hitting the 'Target next air enemy' key to cycle thru the enemies close to you and break if he's a threat, go for him if he's a possible kill, rather than staying fixated on a particular plane who may be too far away or too far above you. Seek out the easier kills. Avoid becoming one.

 

Make sure when creating a Campaign, that you have the enemy skill set to 'Normal' not 'Hard' - the latter seems to pit you against aces most of the time.

 

As you'll probably appreciate from what you've read, much of what you describe sounds exactly like what real WW1 pilots experienced on their early flights; not being able to see enemy planes, opening fire at what they latter learned was too great a range, that sort of thing. Success will come with experience, but you do need to persist, to get over the initial 'This just isn't working!' frustration. As Biggles would have said, 'Dogged is, as dogged does' :)

Edited November 15, 2011 by 33LIMA

[+whiteknight06604 934]

i don't know about anyone else but your advise and tips will certgainly help me out. thank you.

[hurricane3 2]

Thanks so much for your advice, I'am going to print out these posts and read them before I go into combat.My biggest problems are not being able to see the enemy planes and not being able to get close enough when I do.

Flying in normal mode at least gives me a target cone, although a lot of times the cone will continue to point out planes on the ground. The red info that appears in the lower right will say ,for instance ,Fokker DRI ,speed 1 or 2 miles an hour, with distance etc.

If I chase that cone ,I'll find a DRI sitting on the ground prop turning over.Maybe this is because AI planes won't go below 100

 

' and land instead. At least this is what it says in the info that comes with ,the mission "The Rittmeister Falls" and it says to extract some files and change some settings which I'am not about to do as I want nothing to do with the SFPIE Extract Utility. Thats one thing about the Third Wire series I don't like.

[+malibu43 142]

... At least this is what it says in the info that comes with ,the mission "The Rittmeister Falls" and it says to extract some files and change some settings which I'am not about to do as I want nothing to do with the SFPIE Extract Utility. Thats one thing about the Third Wire series I don't like.

 

Well, to be honest, if your not following the instructions that come with the mission, I wouldn't expect the mission to work properly. That's probably your problem.

 

Like LIma said, try some of the randomly generated single missions and see if you have better luck there.

[33LIMA 972]

Thanks so much for your advice, I'am going to print out these posts and read them before I go into combat.My biggest problems are not being able to see the enemy planes and not being able to get close enough when I do.

Flying in normal mode at least gives me a target cone, although a lot of times the cone will continue to point out planes on the ground. The red info that appears in the lower right will say ,for instance ,Fokker DRI ,speed 1 or 2 miles an hour, with distance etc.

If I chase that cone ,I'll find a DRI sitting on the ground prop turning over.Maybe this is because AI planes won't go below 100

 

' and land instead. At least this is what it says in the info that comes with ,the mission "The Rittmeister Falls" and it says to extract some files and change some settings which I'am not about to do as I want nothing to do with the SFPIE Extract Utility. Thats one thing about the Third Wire series I don't like.

 

You might want to try this setup. It may not work for you but I use the same basic approach with most aircombat sims including RoF and OFF as well as FE and I find it makes a big difference in air combat.

 

To do this you'll need a joystick with some buttons you can 'program' (=assign to certain keystrokes, using the FE in-game menu Options/Controls/Customise). I assume you have this. I have attached my FE control assignments file (Options.ini - I had to change the file extension to .txt to upload it but you can just change it back to .ini and save it in your First Eagles/Control folder) . You can use this or just do what I describe below. My file also has the hatswitch buttons set up to pan the field of view.

 

I have an old Saitek Cyborg 3d and I used the above in-game FE menu - not my stick's driver s/w, which doesn't work with Vista - to assign Button 2 (top left of my stick) to the F1 (cockpit view front) command.

 

I then assigned the 'Toggle padlock' command to Joystick button 4, top right of the stick.

 

I then assigned two buttons on the base of the joystick to 'Padlock NEAREST air target' (Button 5) and 'Padlock NEXT air target' (Button 6).

 

Also assigned other joystick base buttons to 'Padlock Nearest GROUND target' and 'Padlock NEXT GROUND target', tho these I very rarely use

 

When I'm in a dogfight I hit joystick Button 4 to toggle padlock on and then hit 'Nearest air target' (Button 5) or 'Next air target' (Button 6). 'Nearest' is good to start as that may show up a bandit right behind and about to shoot, rather than a target.

 

I do this until I have my view padlocked on a target that I want to attack and then I go for him. If I feel a bit disoriented while my view tracks the bandit, I very briefly toggle padlock off again, (Button 4) or snap back to front view (Button 2), then toggle padlock back on to the target I'm after. It's like looking away for an instant from a target you've been holding in your vision, just to regain your bearings, then snapping your eyes back onto him again.

 

This I find works well in most sims and in FE it's a lot more realistic and I find actually more intuitive than trying to chase a target indicator cone pointing at a target I can't see. With the cone, an off-screen target could be reversing his turn for all you know, and the first you see of that is that he whizzes across your front and is suddenly off the opposite side of the screen. With padlock, you can see what way your target is manoeuvring. The trick is usually to keep your 'lift vector' (the imaginary line drawn vertically up from your wings) towards the target, and your wings in the same plane as his, so if he rolls right, you roll right, etc, etc. You can't react quickly enough to a target, if you're chasing a cone pointing at an off-screen target. With padlock, you're watching the target's every move and can match him quickly, move for move.

 

I don't use padlock until I can see the bad guys on screen and an about to engage or be engaged, as this is a bit of a cheat. Then, I regard it as my pilot quickly looking around, from plane to plane, and reasonable compensation for the limits of 'flying' with a monitor and no peripheral vision.

 

I found this setup works quite well after only a little getting used to.

Edited November 16, 2011 by 33LIMA

[33LIMA 972]

PS another point worth mentioning is, in campaign missions, you can happily IGNORE the 'fail'/success' ratings you get in briefings. It makes NO difference to how the campaign goes. Don't worry if you never even make it to your mission 'objective'; concentrate on damaging the enemy while surviving AND minimising casualties to your own flight. The campaign goes your way, with the enemy being repulsed or your own ground attacks being successful, depending on this and not on the notional (and unrealistic) success or failure rating.

[hurricane3 2]

Lot's of good ideas here, I have all CH controllers,,stick, rudder pedals, throttle quad, yoke and pro throttle usb (which I only use for jets in my other sims).Even though malibu 43 gave me a scolding for not following directions, I have to admit he's right.

The only reason I downloaded "The Rittmiester Falls" is because I've always had a very keen interest in MVR and wanted to at least get some kind of feel of what his last flight was like.

I just don't feel I'am smart enough to mess about with the SFP1E Extract Utility ,I've had enough trouble in the past with weapons ( loseing them) to go mucking about with the Extract Utility.(I know I sound British but even though I'am a Yank and proud of it. ,I dearly love all things British)

And I can understand not chaseing the target cone around, even in single missions I've chased it only to find it was pointing to a plane on the ground.I've since learned that in normal mode ,when the red info box says ,Fokker DRI ,speed 1 mph, to ignore it.

So I'll try using your control assignments and advice and see how long it takes to get blown out of the sky. Thanks for taking the time to give me all your expert advice.