"Dark Blue World" - The Air Scenes

[Olham 164]

The film "Dark Blue World" is not all about air combat; if you want to know more, see Wikipedia about it:

http://en.wikipedia....Dark_Blue_World

 

But someone has put the air scenes into YouTube, and I have found all four - for all who haven't seen it.

Enjoy! (PS: A pity they only had the Hispano-Suiza version of the Bf 109 - but the Spits are great!)

 

Dark Blue World - Air Combat 1/4

 

Dark Blue World - Air Scenes 2/4

 

 

 

 

Dark Blue World - Air scenes 3/4

 

Dark Blue World - Air Scenes 4/4

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I've got the film...the air fighting is good...but, I'm afraid, I found the film quite dull

[Dej 17]

I've got the film...the air fighting is good...but, I'm afraid, I found the film quite dull

 

A bit fomulaic, agreed. But it did highlight a rather shameful episode of 'turning a blind eye' on the part of the UK. Those foreign nationals who fought so valiantly for our country in the BoB and subsequently earned automtic British citizenship in my mind. And they should have been defended and protected as British citizens even if they returned to their native country. Not be allowed to be starved and murdered by a invasive foreign regime.

[Hauksbee 103]

A pity they only had the Hispano-Suiza version of the Bf 109 - but the Spits are great!

Like the D.VII's after 1918, the Me-109 stayed in production long after hostilities had ceased. But, I always wondered about the changes made to post-war 109's. The 109G (Gustav) was a sleek and elegant fighter. Why change it? Did the changes that destroyed its looks make it a better plane? Here's the Wikipedia on it:

 

In Spain, two versions of the Bf 109G-2, the Hispano Aviación HA-1112 "Tripala" and "Buchon", were built under license, the former with the Hispano-Suiza engine, and the latter with the same Rolls-Royce Merlin engines that had powered Spitfires. Many of these aircraft have been used for theatrical purposes, posing (rather unconvincingly, given their very distinctive undernose air intakes, mandated by the R-R Merlin engines they used) as "Emils" and "Gustavs" in Battle of Britain and Tuskegee Airmen, respectively. These modifications were carried out in the Hispano Aviación factory in Seville. Germany had agreed to let Spain have 25 un-assembled Bf 109G-2s to help familiarize the Spanish with the Messerschmitt plane. The wings and airframes arrived but not the engines, so the Spanish installed the French Hispano-Suiza engine, and then fitted Rolls-Royce Merlins as late as 1956. A few were still in active service until the late 1960s.^[107] The Ha 1112 was produced until 1958.

 

I was also told that the Spitfires in the dogfight scenes (all of which far exceed the number of currently flyable Spits) were radio-controlled models.

 

In looking for the pics., I found these interesting few paragraphs on the 109.

 

Even when outclassed, the Messerschmitt could surprise its adversaries. Thomas L. Hayes, Jr., a P-51 ace of the 357th Fighter Group with 8 1/2 victories, recalled diving after a fleeing Me-109G until both aircraft neared the sound barrier and their controls locked. Both pilots took measures to slow down, but to Hayes' astonishment, the Me-109 was the first to pull out of its dive. As he belatedly regained control of his Mustang, Hayes was grateful that the German pilot chose to quit while he was ahead and fly home instead of taking advantage of Hayes' momentary helplessness. Hayes also stated that while he saw several Fw-190s stall and even crash during dogfights, he never saw an Me-109 go out of control.

 

Allied pilots who had the opportunity to sit in the 109's cockpit claimed it to be so narrow that they could barely work the control column between their knees. "The windscreen supports were slender and did not produce serious blind spots," said Eric Brown, "but space was so confined that movement of the head was difficult for even a pilot of my limited stature." The British and their American colleagues were also appalled at its minimal instrumentation. Soviet ace Vitali I. Popkov, who scored 41 victories in LaGG-3s and La-5FNs, flew a captured Me-109 and, like his Western colleagues, came away amazed that its pilots had been able to perform as well as they did.

 

It has been said, however, that where you sit is where you stand, and German Me-109 pilots saw things from a decidedly different perspective. Franz Stigler, a 28-victory Experte, test-flew captured American fighters and commented: "I didn't like the Thunderbolt. It was too big. The cockpit was immense and unfamiliar. After so many hours in the snug confines of the [Me-109], everything felt out of reach and too far away from the pilot. Although the P-51 was a fine airplane to fly...it too was disconcerting. With all those levers, controls and switches in the cockpit, I'm surprised [American] pilots could find the time to fight."

 

British Captain Eric Brown said that the captured Me-109G-6/U2 he test-flew in 1944 was "delightful to fly" at its cruising speed of 240 mph, but in a 400-mph dive, "the controls felt as though they had seized!" On the whole, he concluded that "providing the Gustav was kept where it was meant to be (i.e., above 25,000 feet/7,620 meters), it performed efficiently both in dogfighting and as an attacker of bomber formations."

 

[Olham 164]

The Messerschmidt Bf 109 was a rather light fighter, and as such she was probably best, when she

was not armed too much.

Werner Mölders loved his Bf109-F, which carried two machine guns above the engine, and two

2 cm cannons (with only 60 rounds each) in the wings. That craft must have been a joy to fly.

 

But later they made her heavier by putting different weapons in, and that took some off of her performance.

Still though the Bf109-G6 was a dangerous fighter with a pilot like Hartmann at the stick!

 

The different look of the Hispano-Suiza version comes simply from the fact, that the Spanish engine

was a V-motor. You can see two bulges on the nose cowling left and right at the SPAD already.

Different engine - different nose shape.

[Hauksbee 103]

After looking up "Dark Blue World" it seems that the Spits were not RC Models after all. Most of the flying footage was borrowed and CG modified from "Battle of Britain".

[Olham 164]

Ah, that explains the Hispano-Suiza-Messerschmidts!

[redpiano 6]

I haven't seen any movie with good air combat scenes or enjoyable out of combat story.

[Olham 164]

Yes, they all are somewhere wrong - research, physics, whatever - never quite right.

[Capitaine Vengeur 263]

Some of the weirdest dogfights could be seen a few time after WW2, during the Israeli War of Independence of 1948, when the IAF's Messerschmitt 109 flown by Jewish pilots (actually Czech-built Avia S.199) fought Arab Spitfires, some of them possibly flown by German mercenaries!!

[JimAttrill 24]

Some of the weirdest dogfights could be seen a few time after WW2, during the Israeli War of Independence of 1948, when the IAF's Messerschmitt 109 flown by Jewish pilots (actually Czech-built Avia S.199) fought Arab Spitfires, some of them possibly flown by German mercenaries!!

 

And 'Screwball' Beurling, possibly the greatest ever marksman was killed flying a Czech-built Me109 to Israel. He wasn't Jewish, he was just in it for the fight I think. A lot of fighter pilots had difficulties settling down after WWII.

[Hauksbee 103]

Some of the weirdest dogfights could be seen a few time after WW2, during the Israeli War of Independence of 1948, when the IAF's Messerschmitt 109 flown by Jewish pilots (actually Czech-built Avia S.199) fought Arab Spitfires, some of them possibly flown by German mercenaries!!

 

One of life's great ironies.

[Hauksbee 103]

Yes, they all are somewhere wrong - research, physics, whatever - never quite right.

I agree (mostly) The movies get it wrong because they feel that a scene gets more exciting if they pack it with so many planes that they're damned near wingtip-to-wingtip. History Channel's "Dogfights", on the other hand, always looked very good to me. I've maintained, and still do, that anyone wanting to make a airplane movie, first gets a complimentary copy of OFF and MUST play it for at least 8 months.

[Olham 164]

Cripes, who wrote or said those words you use for your signature, Capitaine? A heart of metal - very sinister...!

[carrick58 23]

I was at the Chino, Ca. Airshow the other day and heard News. The word is that they are doing a rebuild of a Spanish Ha 1112. I couldn' t find out when or if Original parts were going to be used. While I was there I saw a shocking sight. A flight of four War Birds ( a Vee with a tail\end Charlie or maybe they call that a Diamond) . The P-51 was in front nestled in with 2 P-38s Followed by an F-4 Phantom Jet.. How the F-4 stayed in the air going that slow . I will never Know.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Dej...you're quite right of course...It was a shocking indictment which the UK should hang it's head in shame for!

[Hauksbee 103]

Dej...you're quite right of course...It was a shocking indictment which the UK should hang it's head in shame for!

It was regrettable, for sure, but to take any action on the matter was to go head-to-head with the Soviet Union, and we all know how intractible they could be. In 1945, I think Britain had more than enough on its plate just digging out from the rubble of the war.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

It was regrettable, for sure, but to take any action on the matter was to go head-to-head with the Soviet Union, and we all know how intractible they could be. In 1945, I think Britain had more than enough on its plate just digging out from the rubble of the war.

 

I guess so Hauksbee....the Soviet Union eh?... Sh*t it!