VFC_Baxter 19 Posted July 3, 2012 I flew a couple of those this morning for the Austrian side and was pretty surprised that I managed to knock out some Archie with my machine gun. In reality was that possible? I figure if I hit the ready use ammunition it might have been. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Grinseed 19 Posted July 3, 2012 I flew a couple of those this morning for the Austrian side and was pretty surprised that I managed to knock out some Archie with my machine gun. In reality was that possible? I figure if I hit the ready use ammunition it might have been. Knocking out Archie units with a handful of bullets or destroying trucks likewise never seemed too realistic to me and a few months back I was trying to strengthen ground objects by adding armour parameters in the data.inis for them. I did succeed with help but as I was preparing to move house I never, completed the task fully and then I got caught up modding Ojcar's AA series for FEG just before I did move. I am still not organized enough yet to restart or finish either project, so I will direct you to this thread: http://combatace.com/topic/69757-harder-ground-objects/page__p__544336__fromsearch__1#entry544336 in which I outline how to toughen up ground objects. Smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast. Cheers Grinseed Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Trotski 936 Posted July 4, 2012 Yeah i totally agree, besides which taking on AAA with a twin vickers or Spandau would surley in real life be tantamount to suicide, taking out the crews however would stop those bounders shooting at the jolly old crate eh wot !! most ungenlemanly way of fighting a war old chap !!!.......but seriously, .303 ammo wouldnt do a lot of damage to an archie, and I would imagine the pilots would avoid them like the plague, so yes young master Grinseed please get the mod done to the guns mate :drinks:http:// Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ojcar 157 Posted July 4, 2012 ....Or just use your imagination. AAA guns can be hard to destroy with machine-guns. On the other hand, the AAA guns crewmen aren't! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Trotski 936 Posted July 5, 2012 Yes Ocjar that is very true, but even so it is too easy to kill em, I have taken out Archie batteries with one short burst before now, and in reality I dont believe the pilots of the day would have attempted it, as it stands at the moment the tepmtation to kill the annoying buggers is too great lol lol lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ojcar 157 Posted July 5, 2012 You can try to add some armor (look at the tanks), but be in mind that even the tanks of the day were somewhat vulnerable to point-blank machine-gun fire. I think that is needed a total rebuild of all ground objects, to avoid inconsistances (trucks harder than tanks, etc). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Trotski 936 Posted July 5, 2012 hmmmm yes that is an idea, probably soemting along the lines of what Grins is in the middle of..and I agree about the inconsistancies too !! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
33LIMA 972 Posted July 5, 2012 I find it's a different ball game with Ojcar's Armchair Aces. Yes the AA guns are still easy to kill (they way they fireball is probably more unrealistic than their vulnerability; an accurate burst should often be enough to put one out of action for a bit). But with ground AA MGs in the sim (I get the impression these replace some AA guns) it is a lot more dangerous to fly low, and quite deadly over enemy airfields where the AA MGs tend to be concentrated. You can probably get the same effect by installing the AA MG mod recommended for Armchair Aces in stock campaigns, if you don't have Armchair Aces itself installed (you should, it's so good!). Even without ground MGs I find it is unwise to loose altitude behind enemy lines just to annoy some Archie, especially with Armchair Aces, Bloody April and other campaigns which seem to have more enemies in the air, just waiting to descend upon you if you let yourself be dragged down into the weeds. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Trotski 936 Posted July 5, 2012 ohhh yeah...those airfield defence mg's are a little nasty to be sure, a little too accurate though in my opinion, I have done anti aircraft shoots with a machine gun ( a GPMG ) which fires a lot quicker than those old lewis and vickers did, and trust me it isnt easy to score hits , and certainly not as effective as those AI Mg's either last time I did an anti aircraft shoot we had 6 GPMG's on the firing line, with a radio controlled drone target, the standard rate of fire for AA shoots is 50 round bursts.......from 6 guns.........at 1000 - 1200 rpm.......and we were all highly trained and experienced gunners too.....errrrr we didnt hit the drone once in three passes !!! so maybe just maybe those AAA mg's at airfields need to be less accurate.....as do rear gunners in 2 seaters Far far too accurate in my opinion ( speaking as a machine gunner ) I know that rear gunners had a good kill ratio, however not that good !!! food for thought maybe guys ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VFC_Baxter 19 Posted July 6, 2012 ohhh yeah...those airfield defence mg's are a little nasty to be sure, a little too accurate though in my opinion, I have done anti aircraft shoots with a machine gun ( a GPMG ) which fires a lot quicker than those old lewis and vickers did, and trust me it isnt easy to score hits , and certainly not as effective as those AI Mg's either last time I did an anti aircraft shoot we had 6 GPMG's on the firing line, with a radio controlled drone target, the standard rate of fire for AA shoots is 50 round bursts.......from 6 guns.........at 1000 - 1200 rpm.......and we were all highly trained and experienced gunners too.....errrrr we didnt hit the drone once in three passes !!! so maybe just maybe those AAA mg's at airfields need to be less accurate.....as do rear gunners in 2 seaters Far far too accurate in my opinion ( speaking as a machine gunner ) I know that rear gunners had a good kill ratio, however not that good !!! food for thought maybe guys ? What sized drone and what speed was it going? I would assume that firing a machine gun at a WWI plane might be a bit easier than firing at a fast moving modern target, but I might be wrong. I do recall watching a bofors firing on my parol boat at a target at sea and it was either dead on or 3 miles away depending on the roll of the ship at the time :-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Trotski 936 Posted July 6, 2012 yes, that is exactly what i mean about rear gunners being too accurate, if his aircraft is moving about ( and even in level flight it wouldnt be a really steady gun platform ) and taking evasive action, the poor old observer worked really hard to try and get a bead on what he was shooting at , even during WWII the massed guns of the B17's and B24's had little effect on incoming german fighters, yes of course they did get kills, but not that many !!! The drone was a 10 foot wingspan job, not moving terribly fast either, about 100 mph I would imagine, to simulate a helicopter more than a jet, so around the same sort of speeds a WWI aircraft would be moving at !! hard to hit trust me !!....with AAA artillery though it is a different matter, as the blast fro a near miss would really spoil a pilots day !! I am not trying to say that ground base MG's were ineffective, just that they were not a s accurate as prrtrayed in FE.....this buggers must have laser targeting, and imperial storm troopers shooting them hahahahahaha We were taught that the principle of AAA it is the aim of it to distract and discourage the enemy Aircraft from the target, any kills scored are a bonus, however the Germans had great success with 20 mm and 30 mm light flak, as they used it in large area deployments, but those things had a high rate of fire, explosive amunition and usually 4 barrels !!! To further illustrate my point ( and sorry I am going on a bit ) if you watch news reel of kamakaze attacks on US shipping, not the amount of AAA in the air at any one time it takes a hell of a lot of firepower even to knock down one determined enemy So to summarise, please dont anyone jump on me and say I am dissing the AAA I am just saying it is good actually.....just a little too good especially the mg's !! the actuall Archie is probably modelled quite correctly, however to get back to the original point ( 'cos I wandered off a bit, typical of me trangressin' ) the AAA artillery is a little too easy to kill, but like someone has already said, the crew of said Archibold gun would have been exposed and vunerable, so maybe ocjar was correct by saying use your imagination when it come to strafing guns Shutting up now, I can hear all the zzzzzzzzzzz's coming out of the site hahahaha Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ojcar 157 Posted July 6, 2012 I think the AAA can be too effective, but you must have in mind that in real life you don't face one or two guns over a target. The game terrains are much less populated than real ones. So it's a matter of "two too good AAA" in game against "an entire battery" in real life. About the AI gunner on planes, this is the reason behind Peter01's idea of making _gunner versions of the machine guns. These are porked versions of existing machine guns to have less deadly AI gunners (specially against your fellow AI pilots) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Trotski 936 Posted July 6, 2012 Good point ocjar, I hadnt actually realised that about the gunners......show I dont read everything that maybe I should eh !!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
