+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 4, 2014 the good his all these will work great in SF2 whit some edits! Yes. The models will function in both FE2 and SF2. When Italy declared war on Britain (June, 1940), the first WW1-style dogfights took place over the Libyan/Egyptian border, mostly along the coast. I originally thought the game map need only be 200 miles wide, but then realized it could be used for both the short biplane airwar of 1940 and the later 1941-42 desert war that most gamers know about. So I am now thinking about a map 400 miles wide, stretching from El Agheila to El Alamein, that could be used in both FE2 and SF2. Shot below shows original idea, with Italian airfields in green and British airfields in blue. The Italians mostly operated from established bases with facilities, while the British frequently operated from "forward landing grounds" - big flat spots in the desert with temporary facilities mounted on trucks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+KnightWolf45 1,147 Posted December 4, 2014 (edited) watt about the north africa/ tunisia terrain made by Edward iirc! Edited December 4, 2014 by cocas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 4, 2014 Didn't know there was one. Thanks for the tip - I'll look for it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+KnightWolf45 1,147 Posted December 4, 2014 tunisia only found a gen 1 terrain http://combatace.com/files/file/10465-ww2-tunisiawestern-med-update-pak/ north africa gen 1 http://combatace.com/files/file/9365-north-africa-western-desert-ver2/ but should more less easy to convert to Gen 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,424 Posted December 5, 2014 ww2 redone (by me) versions for sf2 are in the sf2 terrains downloads 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+KnightWolf45 1,147 Posted December 5, 2014 ww2 redone (by me) versions for sf2 are in the sf2 terrains downloads dint find then! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+KnightWolf45 1,147 Posted December 6, 2014 then i not blind? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 6, 2014 (edited) Found the SF2 North African map - thanks. Finished mapping the Hurricane MK1 and have been applying the baseline colors. Interesting thing about the 1940 desert war is that the classic RAF dark earth/mid stone/azure blue camo was not specified 'til mid-1941. So, most RAF aircraft in the first 6-12 months flew with euro-camo. Many older aircraft, originally sent to Africa in the pre-war silver finish, were field painted with improvised colors. Edited December 6, 2014 by Geezer 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,424 Posted December 7, 2014 no, Daniel, my friend you're not blind!! I'd forgotten the versions I'm using are the 'tweeked' for SF2 ones (just the new shader statements) The SF2 "Eastern Med" version is for modern times . this is the ww2 version in 1st Gen downloads http://combatace.com/files/file/9365-north-africa-western-desert-ver2/ it needs a MAJOR overhaul. something along the lines of what I did for the modern version. it would be an awful lot of work, even with the new tiles I made for "Eastern Med" It was the Tunisia/Sicily/Italy/Libya I was working on this time last year, revamping to match the one above. Never finished it, as it would need the targets ini rebuilt, too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+KnightWolf45 1,147 Posted December 7, 2014 cant you reuse the modern and just tweak the targets/types ini to save work? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 7, 2014 Wrench: As you know, I am slowly making a bunch of new WW1 ground/terrain objects for the FE guys. If you are willing to wait a while, I could also make some Mediterranean objects for your map upgrade. Shot below is of an old example - the roof tiles are now more varied. Plus, I have a BOATLOAD of WW2 vehicles that could be used. Sample below is overkill, where I was attempting to simulate the rag-tag, gypsy caravan look seen in so many of the desert war photos. Only the US managed to standardize on a few vehicle types - the other combatants used dozens of different vehicles. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,424 Posted December 8, 2014 OMG! Those vehicles are AMAZING!!! Love the wrecker/tow truck. A question: shouldn't the umbrella say "CINZANO" ???? (LOL!!) I'm not ready at the moment to go back to the Med, as I'm still working on East Asia (there's a thread in the WW2 forum on "THAT terrain") Plus some new Thunderbolts and Beaufighters Daniel and I are working on. But, yeah I think I can look at it at some point next year. Redoing the "modern" one back to WW2 would be a 'job of work', but mostly retargeting. It's quite doable. Have to remove the modern airfields and SAM sites and such, but not too terribly difficult. I'll look at it in the near future (early next year maybe) 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FrankTB 14 Posted December 8, 2014 Geezer I "love" the bus with the bags on top. Believe it or not but the very first vehicle I ever got to drive was a WW2 GMC which I think they used to call a Jimmy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 8, 2014 Progress shots of skins. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 9, 2014 I was experimenting with panel edges that were raised in 3D above the rest of the aircraft surface. I gave up - it was too much work. After deleting the edges, I made better progress because I did not have to wrestle with weird shadows caused by the raised panels. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) OMG! Those vehicles are AMAZING!!! Love the wrecker/tow truck. A question: shouldn't the umbrella say "CINZANO" ???? (LOL!!) I'm not ready at the moment to go back to the Med, as I'm still working on East Asia (there's a thread in the WW2 forum on "THAT terrain") Plus some new Thunderbolts and Beaufighters Daniel and I are working on. But, yeah I think I can look at it at some point next year. Redoing the "modern" one back to WW2 would be a 'job of work', but mostly retargeting. It's quite doable. Have to remove the modern airfields and SAM sites and such, but not too terribly difficult. I'll look at it in the near future (early next year maybe) I'll be tied up with the WW1 objects for a while, so there is no hurry. I would like to experiment with lots of fender trash, as extra gear hung all over the vehicles is common in most of the old photos. Dunno if it is feasible, but maybe we can test a few to assess impact on frame rates? I can add Cinzano to the "liberated" umbrella, and maybe a veddy Brrrritish tea pot (by the front wheel). Edited December 9, 2014 by Geezer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) Geezer I "love" the bus with the bags on top. Believe it or not but the very first vehicle I ever got to drive was a WW2 GMC which I think they used to call a Jimmy Yep, the popular name was Jimmy. The famous Jeep got it's popular name because it's official designation was GP, for General Purpose. The interesting thing about the desert war is that there were almost no trees or buildings in that part of 1940 Libya - it was empty desert. This could simplify map building as there were very few villages or towns? It will also add more emphasis to the vehicles and guns on the ground because that's all there is for gamers to attack, besides a couple of small harbors. Edited December 9, 2014 by Geezer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
manitouguy 0 Posted December 9, 2014 might there be the occasional oasis ??!? and were there camels?? or am i in the wrong desert? this will all be really cool! do i need to purchase something other than fe2 to be able to fly as it progresses? really lovely work and the way you group it all together with such character is superb! regards, Ron Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 9, 2014 (edited) might there be the occasional oasis ??!? and were there camels?? or am i in the wrong desert? this will all be really cool! do i need to purchase something other than fe2 to be able to fly as it progresses? really lovely work and the way you group it all together with such character is superb! regards, Ron I have no idea what else may be required, as this concept is still in its infancy. The 1940 desert war was a transition war - it combined equipment and doctrine from both WW1 and WW2. Consequently, the mod falls in a gray area between FE2 and SF2 because the last biplanes share the skies with early monoplanes. SF2 has the most game features, but is dedicated to high altitude jets while FE2 has fewer game features but is dedicated to low altitude biplanes. Note that Wrench and his band of merry propheads have done an amazing job of adapting SF2 to WW2 monoplanes. Neither is a perfect fit, but I am going with FE2 for now because it can display more detailed terrain - important for an air war fought at low altitude. If the mod concept ever progresses to "phase 2" - the better known desert war of 1941-43 - than it might make more sense to transition to SF2? Time will tell....... EDIT: Another reason for going with FE2 is that FE was specifically developed to model the complex dynamics of biplanes, not swept wing jets (like SF). Biplanes are the stars of the 1940 show, not monoplanes. There is only one monoplane fighter required for the first six months of the desert war, the Hawker Hurricane. Edited December 9, 2014 by Geezer Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+KnightWolf45 1,147 Posted December 9, 2014 Geezer for panels its better to use bump maps i export then for if needed my best guess for this would be plain jane SF2 whit very self contained mod whit all features biplanes and monoplanes props fly just has well in SF2 and we can try to use high res titles on the terrain to give it detail! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Geezer 3,569 Posted December 9, 2014 Bump maps in TW sims are not an option for me. I have an older edition of Max (R9) - TK's export plugin (with bump map) only works for newer versions of Max. I have thought about larger ground tile artwork for SF2. If I understand correctly, SF tiles are 1000x1000 meters, while FE tiles are smaller - 500x500 meters. If the same size artwork is applied to the two different tiles, then FE has twice the pixel density and thus, twice the visual detail. Stated another way, SF requires 2048x2048 tile artwork to look the same as FE with 1024x1024 tile artwork. Has anyone ever tested an SF map with REALLY large tiles, to determine the effect on frame rates? Another possibility: use several different sizes of artwork to reduce impact on the game engine. This may not work in every situation, but in the 1940-42 desert war most of the action occurred in a narrow strip along the coast line, extending south into the desert roughly 100 km (or so). REALLY large tile art could be used along the coast, but - to reduce impact on performance - smaller tiles could be used further inland (where nothing happened). Bear in mind that 70 years ago, that part of the world was howling wilderness once you moved away from the coastal strip. Deep in the desert, there were no oil fields, pipelines, or agricultural experiments like there are today. With nothing to attack, the average gamer would only fly deep into the desert if he were sight-seeing, and then discover there is nothing to see! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wrench 9,424 Posted December 10, 2014 the average gamer would only fly deep into the desert if he were sight-seeing, and then discover there is nothing to see! Not necessarily true; there's all those "Lost Cities" . Like Hamunaptra. Or Am Shere (so speaks the Master of the Terrain Easter Egg <grin>) ----------- The tile set I used, for example on the "modern' North Africa, is the stock 3rd Wire IsrealME, with some additional tiles for the ports and such. These had been renamed to the Desert tile set naming conventions for ease of the terrains rebuilding. These are 256x256 OTH, Stary's High Res IME set is 1024x. In all honestly, it isn't really necessary to go to 2048 as it will affect frame rates. The and terrains just don't have the level of detail. OTH (again!) a featureless desert is easy to create with the tiles we have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
