Naval Phantoms Question...

[macelena 1,070]

I´ve been reading lately, on how some USN and USMC squadrons, flying F-4J in Vietnam, transitioned to F-4Ns after the war, in example, VF-84 and VF-41, before getting the Tomcats. Theorically, it is a downgrade, at least when you compare the weapons systems, over the wich, i would take the J before the N anyday. Is it related to flight hours, the Ns being just rebuilt, or something?

 

There would be other squadrons upgrading from B/Ns to Js later in the 70s before getting Tomcats, so i don´t know much about the sense this all makes

[MAKO69 186]

I would say that most of the "J" models, because of Vietnam had all the good used out of them. Airframes timed out and trapped out. Between all of the US air arms there where over 1400 F-4 Phantoms lost during Vietnam. Most being USAF models, but a good chunk being Navy "Js". The US Navy is dealing with frames being timed and trapped out right now. Its known wars speed up the wear and tear on war machines, this problem is felt among all the branches and their equipment. Many aircraft got timed out from the Vietnam Conflict. Late model F-8 where due for an upgrade, but they timed and or trapped out. The USAF Thunderchiefs some analysts feel because of the heavy loss/work load that the Thuds had mantained those planes lost 20 years from the airframes. More than half of the Thuds ever built were lost during the war, that ment double time work for the plane. Pilots of the USAF only had to do 100 missions, the planes possibly did thousands. The Navy with 6-8 month deployments with the potenttial of doing double the USAF 100 mission requirment, somtimes more. "WAR IS BAD" for your "WAR MACHINES". Hope it now makes a little more sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[+daddyairplanes 10,146]

actually primary reason was that the B and therefore the N handles better fying off the Midway class carriers. Roosevelt being a prime example (VF84, VF41). the B's were alot more tired with the production run having wraped up around 65 or 66. but what Mako says is true bout war being bad on equipment, thats why Project Beeline came about. bit of trivia, the Marines actually flew B models (not upgraded Ns, straight B) until 1978, and J's until the early 80s. back to the original answer if you check who went from J to N, betcha they either flew off the Midway, Coral Sea or FD Roosevelt ooooorrrrrr they were a Marine unit and the Navy took their Js away!!!

[macelena 1,070]

Indeed, the Midway class and the wartime stress were the only things that made sense to me. It remains interesting, if not surprising, that CVWs, like CVW-14 aborad Coral Sea during Eagle Claw, had Marine F-4Ns wich would come up against an enemy flying Tomcats or Phantoms wich were at least as good as your own. Personally, in SF2 games, i´ve been enjoying flying the "underdog" Phantoms in the late 70s, and an Iceland campaign flying VMFA-323 F-4Ns from Keflavik is is quite fun.

[+Swordsman422 61]

Another explanation I have often heard about why Atlantic Fleet VFs went to B/N from J was to cycle more Js into Pac Fleet for use over Viet Nam or to repalce airframes lost there. A lot of the Atlantic squadrons that got their Js in the mid 60's gave them up to Pac Fleet squadrons from 70 onward. VF-84, for example, upgraded to Js in February of 1967 and used them on deployments in 68-72, three of which took place on USS Franklin D Roosevelt. Their Js were sent to Pac Fleet units and they were "downgraded" in 74. Not that it mattered much. 2 years later, they were converting to F-14s.

 

Edit: Here is an example of a VF-84 J operating from the Roosevelt. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/F-4J_Phantom_II_VF-84_on_FDR_1970.jpg

Edited December 15, 2012 by Swordsman422

[+Typhoid 231]

Indeed, the Midway class and the wartime stress were the only things that made sense to me. It remains interesting, if not surprising, that CVWs, like CVW-14 aborad Coral Sea during Eagle Claw, had Marine F-4Ns wich would come up against an enemy flying Tomcats or Phantoms wich were at least as good as your own. Personally, in SF2 games, i´ve been enjoying flying the "underdog" Phantoms in the late 70s, and an Iceland campaign flying VMFA-323 F-4Ns from Keflavik is is quite fun.

 

Early '80's we were flying the F-4S off of Midway.