Checking my geography...

[Wrench 9,874]

for those not reading the WW2 forums, there's a new northern Europe terrain in the works.

 

So, I'm just checking to make sure I've divided the 'world' into the appropriate country regions.

 

(I also understand WHY no one has really attempted the Norwegian coast line -- it's gonna be a frakking nightmare!!!)

 

it covers approx. 1/3 the region the EAWEuro WW2 rebuild did, so I know I"ll be adding the airbases from Amsterdam north. France and the UK south of Kingston-upon-Tyne will not exist.

It's the Danish bases I'm not to sure of (especially Luftwaffe ones) Safe to assume 'modern' airports were/are built from the old ones?

 

Sweden poses a unique problem, as I KNOW JRL wants it for more modern times, but for ww2 usage, it's neutral (of course, that don't mean I won't add things!!)

 

[+gerwin 451]

Since you are just starting with this, maybe you can consider adjusting (distort, scale horizontally etc) the heightmap you are using for this.

Europe has a high longitude which causes the raw DEM data to look distorted, everything looks 'wider' then it is.

 

Regarding your question, I do miss Belgium, below the Netherlands. (And luxembourgh, but that one is pretty small)

[Wrench 9,874]

could be that I use 120% for scale, too.

 

Bodo is about as far north as we can go (wall-wise). My most major worry are the lochs south of inverness to the Irish Sea, the firths along the coast, and them triple-damned cursed fjords!!!!

 

as to BeNelux, that's pretty well covered on the EAWEuro WW2 map

[+gerwin 451]

I meant that belgium is present, just labelled as france currrently.

 

The area of choice makes sense.  Only wonder if including ireland is interesting in this regard. But the faroe Islands are on that edge too.

DEM Distortion is pretty extreme, If you compensate with photoshop it will probably result in showing much more of scandinavia:

I tried it with google earth (not google maps), which shows the earth as the sphere that it is.

[Wrench 9,874]

Yes, I know that I labeled Belgum as France (apologies to our Belgian friends). But as stated, France and Belguim are NOT part of this map.

I'm sure you're aware of "The Wall", and moving the western edge further east would fuck up those parts of Scotland I wanted a fair distance from it (even if they play no part, and won't get targeted north of Glasgow). Ireland is BEHIND The Wall. The Orkney's and Shetlands, oth, make a nice place to stage raids from into Norway

 

for ww2 operations, i'm not that interested in Sweden (sorry JRL!). As it's "neutral' .... This is more designed for the strike wings from northern England and Scotland for cross North Sea anti-shipping, strikes, and raids in general

 

As to DEM distortion ... the orthographic projection causes this. It took me 4 hours to get the 'shape' as it is now. End Users will just have to deal with it. This is one of the reasons no one works these higher latitudes; they're all twisted out of shape in that not-so-fully-functional TE.

 

If you think you can fix it, I'll send you the ENTIRE Terrain Editor, the 'operational' terrain as it stands (minimal targeting and shitloads of retiling needed to replace the damned road tiles that seem to have preference & perdominate all over the cursed thing...

But I'm not messing with it.

[+gerwin 451]

The wall of course, I must admit I forgot about it.

 

Regarding the DEM distortion. I will dig out my old mapping project files and see how I can do in 1km precision, what I can already do in 4km precision: Generate any area in any desired projection. Then use TFDtool code to convert it to HFD.

 

That is all I can do, besides making annoying remarks ;)

[Wrench 9,874]

not annoying, per se.

you raised some VERY good points!! It's just we're, unfortunately, limited by a relatively outdated terrain engine. To say nothing of a terrain editor that less than fully functional.

 

a place like Norway/Scandinavia would be a perfect use for LOD based terrain. Although I shudder to think of how large the file would be (since we can't see the Iceland lods, to get a general idea), and how low the frame rates would be (using IcNA as an example). Conisdering this is a 1500x1500 km terrain....how many thousands of megs ??? :(

[+Brain32 265]

a place like Norway/Scandinavia would be a perfect use for LOD based terrain. Although I shudder to think of how large the file would be (since we can't see the Iceland lods, to get a general idea), and how low the frame rates would be (using IcNA as an example). Conisdering this is a 1500x1500 km terrain....how many thousands of megs ??? :(

 

Actually It might not get so bad, you can always make lods with less polygons, when I was experimenting with new terrain creation I aimed at regular HFD based terrain polycount, even like that advantages of lod based terrain would be a huge improvement, not to mention what would be the possibilities with lower lod system...

Edited October 17, 2013 by Brain32

[+gerwin 451]

Fortuntately the TFD format is open, so any program can take over the functionalities to generate a proper TFD heightmap.

 

Example

-download GTOPO30 W020N90 1km heightmap of europe area.

-Open as RAW with photoshop, adjust levels, convert to 8-bit per channel. save as png.

-Use Xplanet to make a custom earth view with this png. (Xplanet=not easy to use at all)

The result is 3000x3000 pixels, countries are about the same scale as stock germanyCE, the map is 1.5 times larger then a stock map.

-making a HFD from this is not a problem. I will put back that functionality in TFDtool.

 

I agree, the TFD/HFD system is not well suited for pronounced coastlines and rivers.

 

 

 

[Wrench 9,874]

well, I was totally wrong...

 

been looking at this in game, with the TFD tool generated planning maps (yah!!), and you're 100% correct Gerwin.  When in game, the planning maps show things shifted east at least 100km, if not more

As can be seen by the red dot locations of the LW airbases, and the placement of the enemy A/C icons. Does the same in the UK, to say nothing of the Front Line, which should run down the middle of the North Sea.

 

This is definatly caused by the east/west distortions on the height map, from the DEM. The base height field or whatever, MUST be perfectly orientated N/S, and E/W, otherwise these displacements happen.

 

Now, I don't know what to do... 5 days work shot (and not just 3 or 4 hour days -- we're talking 10-16 hours a day I do this.). Somehow or another, I need to 'square up' the height map - in ways I don't know how to!!- retile and retarget Everything (fortunately, only 34 target areas at the moment).

 

and damnitall ... I'd gotten Loch Ness and the valley heading south just about the way I wanted it! To say nothing of the fjords!

 

and the 2nd damdest thing is, the charts I'm using (yes, REAL nav charts!) have the Mercator distortion built in, (see attached HUGE chart jpg - these are the types of maps I use when building terrains, just so's you know ! <grin>)

 

 

[+gerwin 451]

This is definatly caused by the east/west distortions on the height map, from the DEM. The base height field or whatever, MUST be perfectly orientated N/S, and E/W, otherwise these displacements happen.

 

DEM files are supplied in rectangular format/projection, which is a purely for storage and easy data access. But about the worst globe representation.

A nice globe map projection is still crappy in some areas, or in some way. The only proper representation of the world map is a 3D sphere.

If you pick just one area of the globe to map flat, one uses a projection of choice fitting for that area. Either way, when flat it remains a compromise.

 

Nice map BTW, that navigational chart.

 

I don't know exactly what you were trying to do with the Aircraft icons on the planning map. Do you want to translate actual longitude/latitude locations to a TW game map?

 

Will gladly supply a TFD of an area of choice in something better then rectangular format. As shown in my previous post. Though I am still trying to improve on the quality.

[Wrench 9,874]

the weird thing is, it seems to be ONLY on the planning map screen.

The in-flight map, in game, looks to correct. Obviously, one doesn't see the Front Line divider.

I wonder if used the Scale = 120 might have done that??

 

this is very odd. it also may be something that can lived with, if it's only on the planning map screen. The map is square, and so are the planningmaps

 

Damn Round Earthers are messing up our game!! (at least the high lats!!  ) I'm going to join the Flat Earth Society!!!

 

I'd be willing to experiment with whatever you can come up, Gerwin. ( I still have 2 other terrains in the works, to - Kamchatka rebuild (waiting for Russo to finish the Laser, and Formosa/South China/Philipines for ww2)

I'll just create a new TE for this to experiment with (that's easy enough, I do it all the time!!). AND ... rewrite the texture list so the damn roads are NOT at the top!!

 

below is what I used when importing from the w020n090 dem

 

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Wrench, why 120 scale?

 

I didn't think you could use real nav maps for this game, except near the equator: WoV for example. What did TK use for WoE planning map?

 

If you could use this...its 3dem offerin sinusoidal projection which may not correspond to nav maps you are using, but if its better, I can change colours to 8bit Tooth Extractor format.

 

36 degrees max ~~> http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d178/Lexx_Luthor/NorthSea2.jpg

 

36 degrees, or less, serves just on pizza slice, so no gluing slices required.

[Wrench 9,874]

already handled, but thanks for the advice.

 

as for the map, you may have heard of this strange thing called "building the targets ini"