Harriers blowing up on take off

[Viggen 644]

Finally managed to get around to trying the SF2NA expansion. Flying Harriers off the Saipan in '86. But, my wingies keep smacking the deck with their tails on take off and crash into the water maybe 200 feet infront of the ship. I could have sworn there was a solution someone posted to that issue (in general, not with the expansion) but I'm having a brain fart this morning. Anyone care to help?

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

http://combatace.com/files/file/12751-lha-mod-for-stock-sf2na-version/

 

 

 

Try this.

[Viggen 644]

That's already a part of the expansion.

[+daddyairplanes 10,235]

are they taking off first? general consesus i've seen is that they are trying to keep formation with you doing 32 kts 125 ft off the water and failing miserably. but the issue isn't just Harriers as i've watched N model Phantoms do the same when i was working the skinpack. most of my fire ups at teh time were to check skin not fly, and i had left it on the Kitty Hawk off Iceland rather than a runway in Germany or Dhimar.

[+331Killerbee 840]

AV-8A,AV-8C or AV-8B?   Watch to see what the AI's Nozzle position is.  Are the Positions the same as Yours at Take Off? Hard Mode or Easy? Are You trying a VTOL Take Off or STOL?

 

 

I used to work on Harriers. I might be able to Help.

[Viggen 644]

They get their gear off the deck, pull up and then tail strike and stall into the water.

 

AV-8A. Didn't check their nozzle position because I was under the impression the AI didn't use them. I've got the AI on normal and am trying a STOL due to my ordinance- which I didn't take into consideration. I may have had the aircraft too heavy?

[+331Killerbee 840]

If a AV-8A, Fully loaded, All 5 Stations Loaded (2 Drop Tanks with 3 Mk 82's or 5 Mk 82's) shouldn't do that at all. Even in either Mode. A STOL Launch is proper.

 

 

Is the Harrier's FM Stock?   Give Me some Time to test My Installs out. I'm going to try SF2Europe and SF2NA and see if there's any differences. Is the Saipan Stock?   I don't know. I never play NA. I'm going to now.

 

 

Like I said, Bare with Me. I'll figure it out.

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Try it anyway. This is JSF Aggies mod. You cannot overload AV-8As and expect them to take off. I am using the WOE SF1 AV-8A converted to SF2 standards using SF2NA as my arena. One thing I noticed was the droptanks for that version where way too heavy. I swapped them out for the Hunter tanks and it seemed to fix the rest of the flight nose diving off the end of the boat. Also remember, you cannot expect to have more than two 500lb. class weapons loaded if you have drop tanks and you are trying to do a STO off the boat using that mod. I think the main reason is you don't start from the back of the boat. Look up some of Gunny Killerbee's old posts on the subject. I read all of them over the past couple of weeks and my eyes where opened to the world of the Harrier.

Edited December 5, 2013 by CrazyhorseB34

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Just tried 5 Mk82's loaded, my wingman got off the boat no problem. The wingman's nozzle position was straight back. Me on the other hand, taking off from the "cat1" position had to bump my nozzels down a bit to get an extra lift off the edge. This is getting interesting. KB, where on a Tarawa class did AV-8A's start their takeoff run from? With this mod you starout out around the middle off the ship. See pic. Should you not start further aft?

 

 

[+331Killerbee 840]

You've got it correct. about mid-Tower would be the LSO.

 

Try raising the Cat's end up a Hair in the Z Axis. It works.............That's how I get AI Helo's to launch off some of My dedicated Helicopter Carriers.

Edited December 5, 2013 by 331Killerbee

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Roger.

[+331Killerbee 840]

BTW, That's how to do a Ski Jump also..........

 

 

Yep. It looks like a FM Issue. The old Data.ini from Woe works the best. Forget the old "C's" .ini. It's worthless now. Aggie's works better with the Hunter Tanks as Crazyhorse has suggested. It looks like what Crazyhorse said, The best combination is the FM from WOE with Hunter Tanks or lighten the Harrier's Tanks in the Weapons Editor....

 

 

331KB

[Viggen 644]

Alright, I'll test that tomorrow. Going to try it as it again first.

[+331Killerbee 840]

[+JSF_Aggie 1,291]

With my mod, the first "catapult" position, your position, gets no benefit of a fake catapult.  You have to throttle up, release brakes, then vector the nozzles down prior to the end of the deck.

 

Since the AI doesn't vector their nozzles, spots #2, #3, and #4 have help from a catapult.  I may need to increase this with the current flight models.

 

The down side to this, is if you have a flight greater than 4.  Your #5 guy will start in the first slot, and with no fake catapult, will go into the water.

 

There's room to move them back further.

 

I'll play with it tonight when I get home.

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Aggie, your mod works exactly like you intended it to for my needs! It gives you the option to do a VTO if you are light enough. Weight is the key. Another thing, Harrier II's scream off this thing with little problem. It is the older ones with less hp that need vector help from "cat1".

Edited December 5, 2013 by CrazyhorseB34

[+331Killerbee 840]

Guys

 

 In the Data.ini of the AV-8B's, They have these Entries:

 

[AIData]
AileronDeltaRoll=1.2
AileronRollRate=-1.0
ElevatorDeltaPitch=1.0
ElevatorPitchRate=-0.1
ThrottleDeltaSpeed=0.05
ThrottleVelocity=-0.01
DeltaSpeedForAfterburner=50
DeltaSpeedForAirbrakes=-50
MaxPitchForAltitude=30.0
MinPitchForAltitude=-20.0
PitchForThrottle=0.005
PitchForAltitude=0.001
PitchForVerticalVelocity=-0.001
RollForHeading=15.0
RollForHeadingRate=-0.5
MinRollHeading=15.0
MaxRollForHeading=65.0
PitchForRoll=0.23
FormationSpeedForPosition=0.8
FormationSpeedForRate=0.5

 

The AV-8A's and Harrier1,Gr1,Gr7 don't have these Entries. They are placed between [Flight Control] and [Detect System]. I think this might be a big difference.

 

 

[+CrazyhorseB34 937]

Thanks! I am going to plug that in my AV-8A data right now.