Jet Thunder : Angola - any chance?

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Greetings from South Africa to all the folks at JT...

 

I am not sure how many of you are aware of the Angolan Theater Project we at combat360 have been developeing for Falcon 4 over the last 2 years.

 

Please if you have time go look at the update threads at

 

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....r=asc&start=345

 

With the new AF release for Falcon 4, and the possibility of having to possibly redo a serious amount of our work to fit in with AF, the thought comes to mind to take our teams efforts somewhere else. So what has JT in common with the Angolan Theatre. For starters it took place in the same era (70-80's) which for us in Falcon meant a lot of "retro-engineering" to get F4's modern avionics "aged" to suit our theater. The second is we share quite a huge DB od high poly 3D models that is common amongst our 2 projects. As you might know all our models by far outweigh anything in Falcon 4 when it comes to detail.

 

Our team has well over 250 new models ready pertaining to the campaign. The SAAF has been fundamental in supporting our project, by giving us virtually umlimited access to documentation, pilot interviews and photographic access to all aircraft involved, we have literally photographed every square inch of most of the a/c involved. - hence all out terrain and model textures being photographically modelled.

 

The terrain and model shots in the threads above should give you an idea - one problem with the F4 engine is that existing 3D models and cockpits had to be "downsized" tremendously to be able to fit into the F4 environment, despite that I think we have achievd great results.

 

From a research perspective, our campaign and every sortie is based on "historically" correct data, we have had the pleasure of 2 great advisors who like me took part in the real war in Angola, that being General Rafael del Pino (commander Cuban AF in Angola) and General RS Lord, commander of the SAAF operations during the war and author of the classic book about the Mirage F1 un SAAF service "VlamGat".

 

In a further post I will post a complete list of aircraft and resources that can be shared.

 

Here lies our 2nd option... We take the plunge at this stage, and swop our develeopment over as a "additional theater - Jet Thunder : Angolan Conflict" project.

 

Skillsets - well again the pictures should say it all, apart form C++ skills, all graphics, sound production and folio work (I have been a recording musician for over 15 years), SRTM or DEMdata manipulation, and we have chaps such as TOPOLO (Dassault) and SAAF pilots to dev and help test our FM Data.

 

Hope we can talk - Best Regards

Mad Dog McEwan - South Africa

combat360.com

 

 

Team

====

 

'Mad Dog' McEwan - all UI work, FM data, all textures, all terrain tiles, installer, tacedit, f4browse etc work.

'Kasper' Kriel - lead 3D modeller - all HLOD modelleing, features modelling, stores edits and finding "new bits and bobs within F4" and some C++ codeworx

'Gabriel' Cronje - TE work

Pedro - C++ codeworx

 

Major contributors

==================

 

TOPOLO - all FM data on Mirage and Cheetahs

ccc - for a HUGE HUGE amount of lowres a/c models and 90% of ground vehicles

Twister - terrain/theatre/pathmaker work

Hannes "noname" Wagner

 

 

Techical Advisors/voice overs etc

=================================

Brig.Gen Dick Lord - SAAF ret, F1AZ pilot, was in charge of SAAF ops during war

Gen Rafeal Del Pino - Cuban DAAFAR ret, MiG-21/23 pilot, commander of Angolan Air Force during war

Col Barries Barnard - Impala Mk2 combat pilot, border war ace, 85CFS

Koos "Rapier" Kieeck - Impala Mk2 combat fighter instructor at 85CFS

Kirk Kinnear - real cockpit project for Angolan Theatre (Imp2 and F1 pits), simkits, sim instruments.

 

 

temp aclist - will do a F4Browse dump tonight

 

AM.3C Bosbok

An-2

An-22

An-24

An-26

An-32

AS350 Ecurecil

Buccaneer S.Mk50

Beechcraft King Air

BN2 Islander

Boeing 707

Boeing 707-328 Tanker

Boeing 737

Boeing 747SP

C4M Kudu

C-47 Dakota

C-47 Dragon Dak

C-47 Ambu Dak

C-47 TP Dak

C-54 Skymaster

Canberra B(1) Mk12

Canberra T.Mk4

CASA C-212

Cessna 185

Cessna 310

CH-2 Rooivalk

Cheetah C

Cheetah D

Cheetah D2

Cheetah DC

Cheetah E

Cheetah R

Do-27

EMB-312

F-27 Friendship

Gazelle

IL-62M

IL-76

MB-326KC Impala Mk II

MiG-15 UTI

MiG-17F

MiG-21MF

MiG-21bis

MiG-23ML

MiG-23UB

Mil Mi-6

Mil Mi-8

Mil Mi-24/25

Mil Mi-17

Mirage F1AZ

Mirage F1CZ

Mirage IIIBZ

Mirage IIICZ

Mirage IIIDZ

Mirage IIIEZ

Mirage IIID2Z

Mirage IIIRZ

Mirage IIIR2Z

Nord Noratlas

Piper Arrow

Piper Cherokee

SA-316 Alouette III

SA-316 Alouette III Gunship

SA-321 Super Frelon

SA-330 Puma

SA-332 Cougar

SA-365 Dauphin

Shackleton MR.3

SU-22M

SU-25

SU-27

Tu-134A Crusty

Yak-40

Edited May 19, 2005 by Mad Dog McEwan

[+Dante-JT 6]

Greetings from South Africa to all the folks at JT...

 

I am not sure how many of you are aware of the Angolan Theater Project we at combat360 have been developeing for Falcon 4 over the last 2 years.

 

Please if you have time go look at the update threads at

 

http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....r=asc&start=345://http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/...r=asc&start=345://http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/...r=asc&start=345://http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/...r=asc&start=345://http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/...r=asc&start=345://http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/...r=asc&start=345

 

 

I was aware but I was a long time without checking it, I have to say that the progress you show in those threads is stunning!!!!

 

With the new AF release for Falcon 4, and the possibility of having to possibly redo a serious amount of our work to fit in with AF, the thought comes to mind to take our teams efforts somewhere else. So what has JT in common with the Angolan Theatre. For starters it took place in the same era (70-80's) which for us in Falcon meant a lot of "retro-engineering" to get F4's modern avionics "aged" to suit our theater. The second is we share quite a huge DB od high poly 3D models that is common amongst our 2 projects. As you might know all our models by far outweigh anything in Falcon 4 when it comes to detail.

 

 

I love Falcon 4, probably my #1 flight sim of all time, unfortunately I didn't followed its progress since SP3 days... I understand very well your trouble getting F4's avionics aged enough - JT is being focused from the ground up in 60 to 80's aircraft so it may suit you well (when its ready enough).

 

As I'm a tech-junkye, please give me some technical aspects of the models you're doing (poly number, texture size, damage hitpoints/assembling parts etc) and why the F4 engine is being outweighted by them.

 

 

Our team has well over 250 new models ready pertaining to the campaign. The SAAF has been fundamental in supporting our project, by giving us virtually umlimited access to documentation, pilot interviews and photographic access to all aircraft involved, we have literally photographed every square inch of most of the a/c involved. - hence all out terrain and model textures being photographically modelled.

 

We got a bit of support from FAA (Fuerza Aerea Argentina) and recently, of Museo Malvinas (1982 conflict's museum in Olive, Argentina). We have some ex-combatents in the british side as well sending very good documentation about the british hardware used. But looks like you guys are even better covered than us in this aspect ! Awesome!

 

The terrain and model shots in the threads above should give you an idea - one problem with the F4 engine is that existing 3D models and cockpits had to be "downsized" tremendously to be able to fit into the F4 environment, despite that I think we have achievd great results.

 

That river tiles are completely unbelievable ! Fantastic work! Tell me some tech specs, I'm curious now!! :) For example, what size is each terrain tile in the sim's world (in kilometers?) For example, in JT we're starting to go into chunks of 10km x 10km terrain, each can have a multitexture tile (of 2048x2048 res, but 1024x1024 is safer now, S3TC compressed for sure), then a high definition detail texture to give the sense of speed at tree-top level comparable of what you see in flight sims like the IL-2 series.

 

From a research perspective, our campaign and every sortie is based on "historically" correct data, we have had the pleasure of 2 great advisors who like me took part in the real war in Angola, that being General Rafael del Pino (commander Cuban AF in Angola) and General RS Lord, commander of the SAAF operations during the war and author of the classic book about the Mirage F1 un SAAF service "VlamGat".

 

 

 

 

Here lies our 2nd option... We take the plunge at this stage, and swop our develeopment over as a "additional theater - Jet Thunder : Angolan Conflict" project.

 

It's very interesting for us, because it was a conflict of country A vs. country B, with approx. same technological level, not a conflict about coalision A vs. country B with severe tech. level unbalance (like war in Iraq 1991 or today or the Balcans in the 90's), so, as historical modern conflicts go, it's one of the few left with this characteristics that may fit well into a good tactical fighter flight simulation.

 

I just have to say that at the moment and in the following 2 or 3 months, we're still too much in "structural" phases of development of our engine (yes, we're still developing a flight sim engine and not already the flight sim itself) and we aim to be very modular, expandable and without serious limitations that my limit simulation's detail. Our current goal is to develop the Sea Harrier FRS.1 fully (we have all tech. documentation about it, and it's by far the most sophisticated and complicated aircraft in the Falklands theater) onde we have it flying in a convincing way with the basic systems working and so be able to fly a complete mission (air-to-air at least) then we will be able to start a internal testing, where knowledgeable people like you and your project mates will be able to test it and comment/give suggestions/help. The Mirage III is still far away, we don't know how our flight physics system will deal with its delta wing and supersonic flight. Probably it's a problem for our mate Yyrd to deal later :)

 

 

Skillsets - well again the pictures should say it all, apart form C++ skills, all graphics, sound production and folio work (I have been a recording musician for over 15 years), SRTM or DEMdata manipulation, and we have chaps such as TOPOLO (Dassault) and SAAF pilots to dev and help test our FM Data.

 

SRTM and DEM data manipulation, its such a rare skill :) I'm the person doing this in Thunder-works! What is the resolution of the terrain meshes you are collecting from the Angola theater?

 

Hope we can talk - Best Regards

Mad Dog McEwan - South Africa

combat360.com

Team

====

 

For sure! You can talk further to me by email

[scary_pigeon 0]

blimey. that is scenario that has to happen. I was not really concious off it till now.

 

I am wondering if amongst this effort are there any people who know LUA.

 

I think LUA wasnt around when falcon4.0 came into being and it really very nice. our cockpit, sound fx, dials, electronic displays, keyboard interaction, flightmodel etc, etc - all goes through LUA - so it might be possible for JT compatable cockpits to be created.

[SDirickson 0]

I've been going to the freefalcon forums at least twice a week to see any of the new developments on the Angola project. Frankly, I put away Falcon 4 until it was released.

 

If this merger would happen, it would be incredable. I can honestly say that I would buy this sim over any other on the market, period.

[Aerny 0]

BIG FISH

 

Let get to diner!

 

 

cheers,

 

 

Aerny

[Wilko 0]

Man that would be so good to have both of those conflicts in there

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Dante

 

damn I just typed you a long reply... and pasted all over it in notepad.... I will retype another long post later.

 

I will try anf get Kasper to fill you in on 3D modelling specs, but on the texture side all models use multiple sets of 1024x1024 bmps converted to dds format. The theatre is 1536x1536 kms in dimension and the tiles are split into 3 levels of detail, each covering roughly a square km.

Sets are 512x512 for Hdetail and then 256x256 and 128x128 for detail at diff heights.

 

I think we should complete the project for Falcon 4 as is (as it is allready far in dev) BUT at the same time begin communicating, if you are interested offcourse, on how we could colloborate.

 

I acknowledge that you are still in sim engine phase but I think this is a good place to get onboard, as we can def contribute in all areas. C++ coding is on hand but about Luea I am not too familiar at all... models and textures etc no problem for help.... pits as well (are there no 2D pits?? only 3D?)

 

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

 

 

Well - the show must go on - despite AF

 

Cheetah D2 on the prowl over Southern Angola

 

 

Operation Reindeer, the Cassinga raid - Para tests by Kasper - ignore the stock c130 (modified with tail ramp)

 

 

Impala Mk2, C-47 and SA330 Puma test flights - some new tile tests

 

 

 

 

Updates Thread Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

Updates Thread FreeFalcon >> http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Cheetah D2 GIB texturing progress

 

 

Bucc S.50 contrail tests

 

 

Bucc S.50 2D cockpit panel tests

 

[HawkHums 0]

SHEESSH that looks good !!! (Angola)

I havent been here for a while and dont wont to take away anything from JT but

I must have this game !!!!

Im from JHB Krugersdorp so Ill be visiting your site more often from now on.

 

Ive aways want a sim with the SAAF featured. LEKKER !!!

 

When you done with that you can start a HeliSim featuring the Rooivulk...

just kidding.

 

Anyway Im very impressed.

Hope you and the Devs for JT get together too.

[+Dante-JT 6]

I will try anf get Kasper to fill you in on 3D modelling specs, but on the texture side all models use multiple sets of 1024x1024 bmps converted to dds format. The theatre is 1536x1536 kms in dimension and the tiles are split into 3 levels of detail, each covering roughly a square km.

Sets are 512x512 for Hdetail and then 256x256 and 128x128 for detail at diff heights.

 

How many sets of 1024x1024 bmps are used per aircraft? The textures in the models are so incredible! We're using just one bitmap of 1024x1024 per aircraft in Jet Thunder so it's quite outdated for todays standards of Lock On 1.1 using multiple sets of 2048x2048 in that Su-25T... but our warships are using at least 3 textures (3 bmps at 1024x1024) so it's technically possible (I hope!) to keep your models looking so fantastic in JT's engine as well.

 

The terrain textures are gorgeous! But, how it looks at tree-top level? Is there a bump/detail texture overlay? I consider a fine detail texture / noise / grass / whatever essential for feeling of flight at low level (speed).

 

I think we should complete the project for Falcon 4 as is (as it is allready far in dev) BUT at the same time begin communicating, if you are interested offcourse, on how we could colloborate.

 

Indeed! I should dust off my Falcon 4 just for this! :) Speaking in Falcon 4, I've yet to send a spare Falcon 4 CD to scary-pigeon (Steve) who lost his game cd. (I wonder how Steve would get used to the 2D cockpits in F4, he is so fussy with 3D cockpits with mouse-look! )

 

I acknowledge that you are still in sim engine phase but I think this is a good place to get onboard, as we can def contribute in all areas. C++ coding is on hand but about Luea I am not too familiar at all... models and textures etc no problem for help.... pits as well (are there no 2D pits?? only 3D?)

 

Yes, there are no 2D cockpits, only 3D cockpits, not a problem at all except that as I've said, Steve is totally obsessed with his mouse-only view control method and at the moment JT doesn't supports any other view method a thing that indeed confirms that we're very 'sim engine' phase as you said, not exactly playable by anyone other than Steve practically C++ help will be welcome specially in the things we have very badly covered (or not at all) like wingmen comms, arming screens, mission planning screens, ATC comms, the ground war, the whole view system etc etc.

Edited May 24, 2005 by Dante-JT

[+Crusader 2,082]

Wow,

 

Angolan Theater Project looks great :)

 

I'll have to get Falcon4 .......

[scary_pigeon 0]

enginewise, theres no hard limit to texture size

 

i'm sure when people have the game in their posession they will be doing nutcase 5000x5000 pixel textures for aircraft.

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

[some shots from last night ACM tests. Had 4 teams of 3 aircraft (Mirage IIICZ, Mirage F1AZ, Cheetah D2 and Impala MkII) having an all out ACM camp. Strange but almost predictable, the Impala's generally came out best of the lot, as the fast movers had a hard time trying to stay on the Imps sixes, kept overshooting.

 

The F1AZ's achieved the most "kills", The D2's next followed by the IIICZ's. The FM's (Mirage FM's by TOPOLO) are working very well indeed, the flight envelopes appear and behave very realistic indeed, TOPOLO has solved the mystery with the Mirage F1's at low speeds (they kept droppping out of the sky before - AI), and I have seen no "weird" jinxing.

 

The Imp's are realy great to fly, super smooth and highy maneouvreable, same goes for the Cheetah D2, which is currently using a modified F1 FM, TOPOLO is working on the Cheetah FM.

 

 

 

 

Updates Threads:

 

Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

FreeFalcon >> http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

CombatAce >> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8585

CheckSix >> http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/inde...showtopic=56496

 

Website >> http://www.combat360.com

[SDirickson 0]

Keep up the good work all around. Ever since Jane's IAF, I've been waiting for a decent sim that modelled that era of aircraft. As fun as an F-15E or F-22 can be, there is something satisfying about dropping an iron bomb on a target with nothing more than a depressed gunsight.

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Whirlwind tour indeed - going to photograph the Mirage F1AZ and CZ from pitot tube to afterburner petals. It's been a while since I did some updates but yep we are still steaming ahead as planned. I have 75% of the new terrain tiles done, otherwise been working on non DB related items. The most current DB is with Kasper at the moment to add the new airbases, features and update the new aircraft stores. Afterwards I just need to modify the new objectives and make minor changes to the new units.

 

I worked also on the version 2 of the Tactical Reference Section, we allready changed the TACREF section as per the screenshot below, but I have now redone them to the new style (see below). So with the Angolan Theatre you will basically be getting a "whole online multimedia library" about the war. (equipment, weapons, people, places, units, operations, history). I have posted screens of all the other UI screens before so you can get a look at the new UI - it is 100% changed from original Falcon.

 

Old tacref

 

New tacref

 

 

Mirage F1AZ over Ovamboland

 

More later

 

Update Threads:

 

Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

FreeFalcon >>

 

http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

CombatAce >> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8585

CheckSix >> http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/inde...showtopic=56496

combatsim >> http://s7.invisionfree.com/COMBATSIM/index...?showtopic=4065

 

Website >> http://www.combat360.com> http://www.combat360.com

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Night flight testing - have posted some screens before about our "discoveries" about nightlighting. At the moment all aircraft feature new dynamic skin lighting (in other words strobes are seen miles away and it lights up the aircraft skin around the strobes location), new AB plumes that rotate, extend etc AND that can be clearly seen at night - a first for Falcon indeed.

 

Another night lighting effect we added was to gorund vehicles (see screens posted before), so that trucks etc have headlights that can be seen at night, and some switch off their lights when they become aware of your presence.

 

Whilst on the new list, you have seen the vids of the pilot animations, as in head, arms and legs move in all 3D views, also the helmet visor, and control columns are animated. Mirages with the "mice" shock cones in the airtakes move as well according to power settings, so do the turbines on all jet aircraft when viewed from the front.

 

[scary_pigeon 0]

looks splendid.

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Minor screens

 

Dak over ovamboland - screenshot clean - resized only

 

Olifant Mk1 in action

 

Impala Mk2 climb out (ignore loadout)

 

Gripen Pit 1st tests

 

Mirage F1AZ delivers a stick of 14 Mk82's to Sam Nujoma

 

Mirage F1AZ showing off 14 bomb configuration used by SAAF

 

More later

 

 

Update Threads:

 

Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

FreeFalcon >> http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

CombatAce >> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8585

CheckSix >> http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/inde...showtopic=56496

combatsim >> http://s7.invisionfree.com/COMBATSIM/index...?showtopic=4065

Website >> http://www.combat360.com> http://www.combat360.com

[Phlerp 0]

Do you have a gripen model in the works or would you like to have some help?

[subarug 0]

Both Angola AND Jet Thunder NEED to be released... I cant stand FS2004 but have to have just so I can look at some of my favourite planes (lets not talk about how they fly) Lock On and BVR is just not my cup of Tea. These two conflicts were the last of theyre kind.

 

Both these sims also very soon will open up to another market as the Remake of the old Animated series Area 88 gets released in America, people will be popping on flight sim to send out some old aircraft to dogfight.

 

I only hope these titles get released and soon.

 

So you know what I was referring to with Area88 (you may already)

http://www.advfilms.com/Films_PRDetails.asp?ID=1692

 

Take Care!

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

Flew some campaign missions last night - some shots from my flight of F1AZ's.... The F1AZ is still being textured, so ignore current textures. The 14 bomb SAAF configuration is working like a dream and a ground targets nightmare.

 

 

 

More later

 

Update Threads:

 

Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

FreeFalcon >> http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

CombatAce >> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8585

CheckSix >> http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/inde...showtopic=56496

combatsim >> http://s7.invisionfree.com/COMBATSIM/index...?showtopic=4065

 

Website >> http://www.combat360.com> http://www.combat360.com

[subarug 0]

Mad Dog you have a PM :)

[Incendiary Lemon 0]

Looks lovely

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

We are having a combat360 team meeting at Swartkop AFB outside Pretoria tomorrow (Sat, 16 July) at 11h00B, oustide the SAAF Museum canteern next to the flightline.

 

Objective of the meet will be to give a project update, meet new team members, and allocate tasking to complete the beta release. I have invited some new folk who want to contribute froma coding, research and modelling perspective.

 

We will also discuss other combat360 objectives and assign some roles and responsabilities.

 

Below are some screenies update - (pardon the quality, taken on my old bloody laptop whilst on business in JHB)

 

 

TACREF UI Screen samples

 

 

More later

 

 

Update Threads:

 

Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

FreeFalcon >> http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

CombatAce >> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8585

CheckSix >> http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/inde...showtopic=56496

combatsim >> http://s7.invisionfree.com/COMBATSIM/index...?showtopic=4065

Website >> http://www.combat360.com> http://www.combat360.com

[Mad Dog McEwan 0]

A few 1024x768 sized screenshot desktops for you..... Cheetah D2's on patrol

 

CHEETAH D2 DESKTOP Screen samples

 

 

 

download here

1 >> http://www.combat360.com/4f4/screens/2005-07-13_004208.jpg

2 >> http://www.combat360.com/4f4/screens/2005-07-13_004297.jpg

3 >> http://www.combat360.com/4f4/screens/combo1.jpg

4 >> http://www.combat360.com/4f4/screens/combo2.jpg

 

 

More later

 

 

Update Threads:

 

Frugals >> http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthr...31&page=2&pp=50

FreeFalcon >> http://www.freefalcon.com/forum/viewtopic....12d795c72326c82

CombatAce >> http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=8585

CheckSix >> http://www.checksix-forums.com/forums/inde...showtopic=56496

combatsim >> http://s7.invisionfree.com/COMBATSIM/index...?showtopic=4065

Website >> http://www.combat360.com> http://www.combat360.com