Collisions (Again)

[Nicholas Bell 117]

The number of collisions my AI squadron is suffering in campaigns is getting to the point of absolute frustration.  I've got the damage model and gun lethality to a more realistic level I can live with, but I lose at least 1 or 2 planes to collisions on every mission.  Especially bad in German campaigns, but it cuts across the board on nation, aircraft type, AI experience level.  And it's not just happening in a head on merge, either. 

 

I realize this is not a new complaint, having done a search on the topic and read the discussion about whether edits to the AI might be having an impact .  Just wondering if anyone has independently found anything in the last few years to solve this problem (or at least point to the source).  I'm at the point of thinking about eliminating collision points (other than those required to land properly) and putting up with planes flying thru each.

 

Thanks.

[+VonS 1,424]

Hi Nicholas, I haven't noticed the problem too much with mid- and late-war scenarios and aircraft, but on occasion when flying early-war missions I do see or get into these crashes with AI. Usually the early monoplanes are involved in this, Pfalzes, Fokkers, Morane monoplane types - but it doesn't happen excessively, and usually involves a head-on collision between enemy pilots, or if a wingman and I are attacking the same plane and are too close this may happen. I'm currently tinkering with the AircraftAIData.ini file to fill the "gaps" for data ini files where there are no settings for AI pilot experience/training (since this is more efficient than plugging the info. individually into each relevant data ini file) - have already tested this a couple of times in the Palestinian early-war scenarios and noticed more varied and challenging dogfighting, with some enemy pilots obviously unexperienced, and others being difficult to shake off and using good maneuvers to avoid my shots - this may also help with collision avoidance. Will post the file here when done testing it (it should be installed into the "Objects" folder of the user folder for FE2).

 

Von S

Edited April 20, 2016 by VonS

[Nicholas Bell 117]

I remarked out the wing collision points for all the planes (both sides) I have in a campaign.  I left the nose, fuselage, tail, vertical & horizontal stabilizer collisions points.   Excellent results.  3 missions with large numbers planes and had only 1 collision.  One friendly hit the ground chasing a DISABLED Camel which was about to force land, so hitting the ground is not affected.  Planes were able to land normally.

 

Thinking I might put the wingtip collision points back in and leave their damage status as HEAVY.

 

Feeling optimistic about this.
 

[+VonS 1,424]

Very interesting developments Nick. I haven't tried reducing morale for pilots yet but for those who want to give it a try, here's a modified version of the AircraftAIData ini file to install into your "Objects" folder. I went through a couple of versions of the file, this is a second attempt at it - and from limited testing I've had good results, only one collision between one from my flight and an enemy plane, as they were firing at each other in a head-on pass. Otherwise from what I could see from my vantage point flying above the furball, planes generally seem more careful and methodical in dogfights, with a good variety of skills. Novices tend to avoid the vertical, aces like to swoop down or up underneath you. Some of the better pilots are now tough to shake off.

 

In one flight with two wingmen (we were in Fokker E.IIa types), trying to attack a balloon in the Mid East theatre, four Bullets intercepted us. The really interesting part was that two of the Bullets headed directly at us, while the other two broke off and did a wide ascending turn, out of our reach, and tried to get behind us. That kind of variety I hadn't seen before tweaking the pilot skill levels.

 

The file seems to work well in conjunction with data ini files that are missing pilot skill level info. - I looked at the pilot skill data that is in the data ini file for the Halb. D.V done by Geezer and modified it for the file posted here (since the Halb. is a good mid-powered, mid-war plane that works well as a benchmark of sorts). What's good about the skill set info from the Halb. D.V is that it gives some important parameters but isn't excessive and doesn't nail down everything, leaving some stuff up to variety and the game's default AI code.

 

I've tried to provide for a spectrum of behaviors by tinkering with the "Dogfight" entries in the file. The "AIData" at the top of the file is a subtle modification on the default entry provided in the AircraftAIData ini when it's extracted from the relevant CAT file from the game. I haven't touched any of the "bombing" data info yet but that might be something to work with to improve two-seater behavior in the game. I'll tinker more with this file and include it in a Ver 8.0 upload of the FM tweaks, but in the meantime here's the file as it is.

 

Von S

 

 

[Silberpfeil 363]

Very interesting discussion and findings, gentlemen! I look forward to further developments!

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Very interesting developments Nick. I haven't tried reducing morale for pilots yet but for those who want to give it a try, here's a modified version of the AircraftAIData ini file to install into your "Objects" folder. I went through a couple of versions of the file, this is a second attempt at it - and from limited testing I've had good results, only one collision between one from my flight and an enemy plane, as they were firing at each other in a head-on pass. Otherwise from what I could see from my vantage point flying above the furball, planes generally seem more careful and methodical in dogfights, with a good variety of skills. Novices tend to avoid the vertical, aces like to swoop down or up underneath you. Some of the better pilots are now tough to shake off.

 

In one flight with two wingmen (we were in Fokker E.IIa types), trying to attack a balloon in the Mid East theatre, four Bullets intercepted us. The really interesting part was that two of the Bullets headed directly at us, while the other two broke off and did a wide ascending turn, out of our reach, and tried to get behind us. That kind of variety I hadn't seen before tweaking the pilot skill levels.

 

The file seems to work well in conjunction with data ini files that are missing pilot skill level info. - I looked at the pilot skill data that is in the data ini file for the Halb. D.V done by Geezer and modified it for the file posted here (since the Halb. is a good mid-powered, mid-war plane that works well as a benchmark of sorts). What's good about the skill set info from the Halb. D.V is that it gives some important parameters but isn't excessive and doesn't nail down everything, leaving some stuff up to variety and the game's default AI code.

 

I've tried to provide for a spectrum of behaviors by tinkering with the "Dogfight" entries in the file. The "AIData" at the top of the file is a subtle modification on the default entry provided in the AircraftAIData ini when it's extracted from the relevant CAT file from the game. I haven't touched any of the "bombing" data info yet but that might be something to work with to improve two-seater behavior in the game. I'll tinker more with this file and include it in a Ver 8.0 upload of the FM tweaks, but in the meantime here's the file as it is.

 

Von S

 

AIRCRAFTAIDATA.zip

Thanks, von S!  Will check it out this weekend.  Certainly sounds interesting!

 

I know the code has at least some ability to make the AI appear to be doing some really realistic maneuvers.  Just a "little" matter of finding out what variable causes it and making it repeatable...haha!

 

Only able to fly one mission last night, but saw what appeared to be an incredibly SE 5a pilot.  Saw him perform a perfect Immelman.  Later he did a wonderful hammerhead to reverse onto one of my wingmen.  It was kind of sad to see his plane side-slipping down after I pinged him at mid-range...pilot KIA.  Sometimes I think it's a bit too easy to kill pilots - despite my reducing their hit box size.  Wonder what impact increasing the pilot's structural factor would have...

 

Oh, no collisions either.

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Very interesting developments Nick. I haven't tried reducing morale for pilots yet but for those who want to give it a try, here's a modified version of the AircraftAIData ini file to install into your "Objects" folder. I went through a couple of versions of the file, this is a second attempt at it - and from limited testing I've had good results, only one collision between one from my flight and an enemy plane, as they were firing at each other in a head-on pass. Otherwise from what I could see from my vantage point flying above the furball, planes generally seem more careful and methodical in dogfights, with a good variety of skills. Novices tend to avoid the vertical, aces like to swoop down or up underneath you. Some of the better pilots are now tough to shake off.

 

In one flight with two wingmen (we were in Fokker E.IIa types), trying to attack a balloon in the Mid East theatre, four Bullets intercepted us. The really interesting part was that two of the Bullets headed directly at us, while the other two broke off and did a wide ascending turn, out of our reach, and tried to get behind us. That kind of variety I hadn't seen before tweaking the pilot skill levels.

 

The file seems to work well in conjunction with data ini files that are missing pilot skill level info. - I looked at the pilot skill data that is in the data ini file for the Halb. D.V done by Geezer and modified it for the file posted here (since the Halb. is a good mid-powered, mid-war plane that works well as a benchmark of sorts). What's good about the skill set info from the Halb. D.V is that it gives some important parameters but isn't excessive and doesn't nail down everything, leaving some stuff up to variety and the game's default AI code.

 

I've tried to provide for a spectrum of behaviors by tinkering with the "Dogfight" entries in the file. The "AIData" at the top of the file is a subtle modification on the default entry provided in the AircraftAIData ini when it's extracted from the relevant CAT file from the game. I haven't touched any of the "bombing" data info yet but that might be something to work with to improve two-seater behavior in the game. I'll tinker more with this file and include it in a Ver 8.0 upload of the FM tweaks, but in the meantime here's the file as it is.

 

Von S

 

AIRCRAFTAIDATA.zip

 

Von S.

 

This is looking good - I think a key factor is the reduction in the defensive angle.  I had two separate occasions in single missions (flying as German) where the target flight flew by and kept going.  Given they were SE-5s and SPAD 13s in each case I was unable to close on them - they just kept moving!  This didn't happen in any of the campaign missions that I flew however.  In the campaign missions the results fluctuated from too heavy to perfect.  The last mission I flew yesterday was a balloon defense.  Took 4 DVII (mercedes).  There were 4-6 Allied aircraft in the general vicinity.  My flight got 1 Camel - and it wasn't by me.  I engaged a Camel and we continued to circle and make ineffective head-on passes at each other until he decided to bug out and fly home.  Using debug I noted he had light damage only, and his current instructions were Waypoint.  On the last head on I separated a bit and I'm thinking he may have lost sight of me (a function of that reduced defensive angle?).  In other missions I've noted numerous planes with light or no damage with either RTB or WAYPOINT instructions moving them out of the fight.

 

One negative I noted was an uptick in the number of planes hitting the ground.  Increasing your SafeAltitude resolved this.  I'm thinking this may have to do with me flying in 1918 and you're testing mid-war aircraft with lower speeds and therefore less difficulty pulling out.

 

I'd suggest on higher powered aircraft using MaxRollCombat=360 and MaxPitchCombat commensurate with the planes climbing ability & stall speed (up to 75 degrees).  With this I've seen practically all the classic maneuvers - full loops, barrel rolls, Immelmans, spit-s, hammerheads.  SE-5's, SPADS and Camels really show their stuff.

 

Also, I think ChanceTurnDirection needs to tested more.  I'm thinking that lower values might be more useful than using 100 for ACE pilots.  In defensive situations the AI's changing direction when in a turn fight is not helpful to their survival.

 

On the original subject, I'm good with eliminating the wing collision points as a good method of getting the number of collisions under control.  I very occasionally see one which is fine by me - like once in 10 missions.

[+VonS 1,424]

Hi Nick - thank you for the thorough comments. I'm impressed by the developments on this. I've added in the meantime ChanceContinue and ChanceCheckNewTarget commands to the general aircraft ai data ini file and will test the modifications soon. I've also tinkered with the two-seater bombing commands but noticed they were beginning to crash more when attacking ground targets so I removed the two-seater commands entirely from the file and will rely on the game's AI for that.

 

You're correct that I was testing with the early war planes - largely with the Pfalz and Fokker Eindeckers, also the Morane Bullets - the Tabloids and Schneiders are some of the earliest planes to contain dogfight skill levels in their data ini files so this general file is bypassed by those planes - this particular file is largely a stop-gap measure for the early monoplanes so that I don't have to plug in dogfight skill info. into each of those data inis for the earlier planes.

 

On a related note, I will take your excellent advice regarding MaxCombatRoll and MaxPitch Combat and will increase the values for some of the late war (mid-1917 and later) planes like the Alb. D.3 and the Nieuport 17/23 - maybe using those as a starting point to tweak the relevant values higher - and will test the changes. If successful I will give the later planes these higher values and roll it into a later upload of my FM tweaks.

 

To the wider audience out there, I'm currently revisiting the Martinsyde G.100 and G.102 data inis - there is a small "bug" in the game where, in a bombing mission (in the single mission mode), if you drop your bombs, the plane's weight is not dynamically reduced but stays as if there's a full bomb load present for the rest of the mission - I had initially tested the G.100 in such a setting, dropping all bombs, then testing the speed, thinking that its 158 kph was with the bombs gone - this proved to be a mistake because when flying the G.100 in offensive mode, the top speed would shoot beyond 175kph. That problem has now been resolved, with the G.100 having a top speed of 158kph with no bombs, a top speed of about 135kph when on a bombing mission, and the G.102 having a top speed of 171kph with no bombs, and about 150kph with a bomb load. Will roll those updates into a "Version 7.5" in a week or two. Also revisited was the Dh.2 - for a long time I was unhappy with the rudder input/effect on that one - now it is solved - it had the wrong (inverted) input and orientation for the rudder (a longstanding error) which required two settings to be reset to false. Will roll that into the 7.5 version of the FM tweaks, and will also include the latest hitbox modifications done by NBell.

 

Happy flying,

Von S

[Do335 382]

Hi Nicolas,

Wonder what impact increasing the pilot's structural factor would have...

I use Structuralfactor 4 for korea mod plus some armor. it seems there abouts! ofc these things can't be extremely precise... think i tested 5 and tuned it down later.
but i dunno what FE's general pilot hitbox size is, in Sf2 it is 0.5 wide, 1.0 long and 1.2 tall.

and a question.... also thinking of deleting some collision points as AI bashing into each other gets very annoying. wondering what points did u delete... on all the wing sections, or only outer wing sections, or outer + mid?

Edited May 2, 2016 by Do335

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Hi Nicolas,

I use Structuralfactor 4 for korea mod plus some armor. it seems there abouts! ofc these things can't be extremely precise... think i tested 5 and tuned it down later.

but i dunno what FE's general pilot hitbox size is, in Sf2 it is 0.5 wide, 1.0 long and 1.2 tall.

 

and a question.... also thinking of deleting some collision points as AI bashing into each other gets very annoying. wondering what points did u delete... on all the wing sections, or only outer wing sections, or outer + mid?

 

Thanks for that feedback on the pilot, that's higher than what I would have expected.  You've saved me some work!  Size is about the same. 

 

I eliminated all the wing collision points, just leaving the nose, fuselage, tail, and tail control surfaces.  I still get a few more collisions than I would prefer.  I'll be doing something similar when I get back to SF2 (I swing between FE2 and SF2 - don't fly them both at the same time...).  One thing I was thinking about was that the collision points are also needed for landing.  This is simply in FE2 since the landing gear are components of the fuselage and tail.  In SF2 aircraft the landing gear are often components of the wings, so some investigation on how to approach this is in order.

[Do335 382]

ok got it thanks, more tinkering indeed.... gonna post back if having anything solid.

 

interesting that FE uses collision points for landing.... apparently sf2 is all set by the wheel model node and everything. But what happens when the wheel is shot off and the wing doesn't have collision points to contact the ground when landing? i think it is a bastage to test this bahaha

Edited May 2, 2016 by Do335

[Do335 382]

Well, I've deleted all the collision points except the fuselage, nose and tail. So far so good. The collisions still happen time to time but feels about only 10% or even less vs before.

Now I can more freely give wingmen engage orders on bombers and slow flying aircraft. Before this I wouldnt dare for they certainly will ram those.

Basically, I like this method a lot! Thanks for the