SF-2 Sea Hurricane IIc drop in FM

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Attached is a drop in FM for the Raven/Wrench Sea Hurricane IIc available here: http://combatace.com/files/file/13561-sf2-ww2-hawker-sea-hurricane-iic-by-raven/

 

The FM is a quick adaptation of my BoB Hurricane II FM with some edits to make the damage modeling a bit more conventional. I put together an MTO install only a short time ago and after getting frustrated with some of the damage modeling with the BoB FM's I thought this would be a good time to try a more conventional approach. The Sea Hurricane gets self healing tanks, a bit of pilot armor and some front armor to represent armored glass but that's it.

 

One of the main objectives was to test the Hurricane FM on the HMS Eagle to see if it could do the free take off. Seems to work fine.

 

Here's the FM, make sure you back up the original:  SeaHurricane_DATA0.95.zip

[Do335 382]

BoB!!

[+baffmeister 1,205]

BoB!!

 

BoB!! is driving me Baffy!!  I'm happy enough with the FMs and A.I. but the old 303 Browning versus cannons issue continues to be a bit of an issue. Also, I've been working a bit on a Dunkirk campaign that isn't doing what I want it to do. Now that I've got an MTO install set up I'm trying something closer to the ThirdWire approach for damage modeling. Been testing the lightly armed Sea Gladiator versus the CR-42 with no armor protection and the results seem about right. Used your gun alignment program on the Sea Glad and will align the CR-42 guns as well.

 

I have to admit I'm rather fed up with all the experimenting. Might just go with something closer to a ThirdWire approach and be done with it. Only exception might be for the bombers. Pilot protection seems to be a bit of an issue so will probably use extra armor for bomber pilots to represent all the equipment/bodies behind them.

[Do335 382]

LOL I see where the nickname comes from:D And glad to see the little excel sheet gets some good use

About the damage model (?) I dunno the specifics but, maybe the TW standard is just about right for early ww2.. It was said that TK's planes are made of paper, but the early planes are indeed fragile so it might as well fit right there i reckon.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Do335

[+Geezer 3,569]

 

About the damage model (?) I dunno the specifics but, maybe the TW standard is just about right for early ww2.. It was said that TK's planes are made of paper, but the early planes are indeed fragile so it might as well fit right there i reckon.

 

While I can't help with specifics, I can contribute some generalizations.  I helped write the battle damage repair manuals for two different aircraft programs.  That gave me an opportunity to research a lot of background stuff, plus talk to test engineers.  As I was an aircraft history buff, I bounced what I learned against what I read about WW2 aircraft.

 

Baff is pretty close to approximating what happened in the BoB by giving bomber pilots extra protection.  Towards the end of the BoB, the Luftwaffe had installed field mods that improved protection for pilots and systems, making them hard to shoot down with .303cal bullets.  Unlike a 12.7mm/.50cal round, a .303cal round just did not store enough energy to fatally damage primary aircraft structure.  Obviously .303cal bullets could degrade primary structure to the point of failure, but it required A LOT of them concentrated in one location.

 

Put another way, it only took a few 12.7/.50cal bullets to inflict the same damage caused by a dozen .303cal bullets.  Plus, most pilot armor could resist all rifle caliber bullets and nearly all cannon shells.

 

The RAF had already figured that out by 1940, which is why it was combat testing small numbers of cannon armed fighters during the BoB.

[Do335 382]

Thanks for the good info Geezer. to my limited knowledge neither the bf109 nor the spit in BoB seem to have the ideal armament. one is like an unweldly hammer and one is a peashooter.:D and funny that 10 years later same thing happens to the mig15 and f86. History repeats itself?!...

 

PS i know there are probably logistics and good bits of other factors involved, but will let you WW2 grogs continue on:)

Edited May 6, 2016 by Do335

[Do335 382]

Also, I've been working a bit on a Dunkirk campaign that isn't doing what I want it to do.

BM: i'm interested in hearing the specifics on this one if you can spare. Campaigns are mostly rarely talked about black magic and has been a personal time sink hole for me, so any info/problem/discussion/whatever would be great.

[Nicholas Bell 117]

BoB!! is driving me Baffy!!  I'm happy enough with the FMs and A.I. but the old 303 Browning versus cannons issue continues to be a bit of an issue. Also, I've been working a bit on a Dunkirk campaign that isn't doing what I want it to do. Now that I've got an MTO install set up I'm trying something closer to the ThirdWire approach for damage modeling. Been testing the lightly armed Sea Gladiator versus the CR-42 with no armor protection and the results seem about right. Used your gun alignment program on the Sea Glad and will align the CR-42 guns as well.

 

I have to admit I'm rather fed up with all the experimenting. Might just go with something closer to a ThirdWire approach and be done with it. Only exception might be for the bombers. Pilot protection seems to be a bit of an issue so will probably use extra armor for bomber pilots to represent all the equipment/bodies behind them.

 

Well at least I know I'm not the only one struggling with this.  After adjusting AmmoWt, Warheadwt, StructuralFactor, VolumeStructurePoint, MinSystemHitChance, DefaultArmorThickness, ArmorThickness, FireCheckTime, APRoundFireChance,etc etc in seeming endless permutations I've pulled out much of what little hair I have left attempting to find a "balance".     I stepped back a couple of months ago to work on hitboxes.  Even in FE2 the problem exists, if in slightly different form.

 

When I get back to this, I'm headed in the direction of leveling the playing field so to speak between AP and HE ammo and adding an HE charge to AP rounds.  I've already tried going the other way, taking the HE out and increasing AmmoWt of cannon shells, but couldn't get the balance (or the engine & fuel fires) needed.

 

Really hoping you figure it out first, Baffmeister.     I just can't deal with the stock planes falling apart just because I f@rt in their general direction.

[Do335 382]

Had been testing for like a year before finding a suitable match, it sure takes time.. But yah i don't think HE without ..HE is a good idea.

Most machine gun rounds have incendiary or other forms of ammo besides "ball" so warheadwt shouldn't be zero i reckon. I took a look at Il2Clod and the ammo choice for MG rounds have quite a few!

 
https://youtu.be/uaM5jFf5omo?t=5m46s

Edited May 11, 2016 by Do335

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Had been testing for like a year before finding a suitable match, it sure takes time.. But yah i don't think HE without ..HE is a good idea.

 

Most machine gun rounds have incendiary or other forms of ammo besides "ball" so warheadwt shouldn't be zero i reckon. I took a look at Il2Clod and the ammo choice for MG rounds have quite a few!

 

 

I was tempted at one point to add a small amount of HE to the 303 Browning to simulate the incendiary round but never tried it. I did add some to the Breda 12.7mm heavy machine gun after reading somewhere that there was an HE round available for it. With no armor protection on either the CR-42 or Gladiator the results seem "OK". The CR-42 had  self sealing tanks from the factory as well as a CO2 engine fire extinguisher so it's not very flammable.  The Gladiators with 4 Browning's have no trouble shooting them down, however.  With the Breda 12.7 the CR-42 can set the unprotected Gladiators on fire quite often.

 

Saw an interesting wing root fire on the Sea Hurricane. It seemed to burn for almost a minute then went out and the Sea Hurricane continued on it's merry way. Doesn't seem particularly realistic but it was fun waiting to see what would happen!

[Do335 382]

the results seem "OK"

well echo echo. whatever the data if the end result in game is good, the ultimate standard is met

Edited May 18, 2016 by Do335