How to deal with AIM-120 AMRAAM ?

[MatanF16 1]

Not really the topic but I can't explain my problem at the title so..

 

I know how to deal with AIM-120 AMRAAM, but I dont know how to deal with AIM-120 AMRAAM when F-16C Hawk shot at you from 30nm :D

I just see "Missile Launch" and wait... wait... and after like 1-2Min the missile hit me, even at 300ft..

 

You guys have some tips how to deal with the BVR Missiles that been shot at you from 30-40nm? 

(And don't tell me to play at 1980)

 

[Snailman 517]

It depends on which AMRAAM and which aircraft launched it. But generally you have the following options

 

- try to break the lock by getting lower than the launching platform's RadarMinimalAltitude value (this works against SAHM, or ARH in the passive phase)

- .. or get behind terrain cover physically blocking the missile's path.

- Get into a steep dive at a high speed, giving the missile an interception point which points to (or below) ground level. it will impact into the ground earlier than you.

- use deceptive jamming against the frequency used for guidance. Jamming Strength has to be higher than the guiding radar's track strength AND the missile's Noise Resistance value. Equal values give you about 50% chance.

- use chaff (CM) packages, when the missiles is within homing range - but generally within visibility (closer than 3-6kms). Each chaff forces the missile to pass the CM resistance percentage.

- You cannot outmaneuver missiles with more than 7-8 Turn G. Except if they are Rear 60 seekers, but those are very old anyway.

 

Early AMRAAM is doable... later ones were given resistance values belonging to sci-fi category - no missile should get resistance value higher than 95. Chaff does not evolve with radars and missiles, as this game was designed up to the early 80's. Creating new weapons should reflect this limitation, ECCM values should be counted against contemporary CM types not those designed in the 70's - so no point giving values of 99 which break playability

Edited May 14, 2016 by Snailman

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I would turn around full AB back home.... or go as deep as possible. I normaly throwing Tzar Bombs on US Airfields .... just as a kinda preventation. Works good in that case 

[MigBuster 2,884]

Turn around all the way back to 1982 

[Caesar 305]

One of the things to consider is that the missiles in the SF-series are generally a bit over-modeled with respect to range performance.  I know I've used the example of the AIM-7F here (at CA) probably twice before, since there's a fair amount written about it in open-source documents.  The AIM-7F has an advertised range somewhere in the vicinity of 25-27NM.  This may be a true statement when the missile is fired against a closing target co-altitude to the launch platform at 40,000 feet, but what if the target is flying 90-degrees angle-off to the launch platform, and both aircraft are at 15,000 feet?  Your effective range is somewhere around 8NM!  If the target is running, that range drops even more.  

 

Another example is the AIM-54.  Against a BMQ-34E drone flying at 50,000 feet and Mach 1.5, closing, an F-14 flying at 44,000 feet and Mach 1.5 was able to successfully engage the drone (simulating a Backfire) with Phoenix from 110NM.  Because of the closure rate, the missile only flew 72NM before intercepting and destroying the drone (still an impressive range).  The reason this worked was because of high closure rate and high altitude (less drag).  If the drone were flying perpendicular to the launch platform, the missile would have been ridiculously out of parameters for a shot, and if the shot were taken at lower altitude, the missile would have had to contend with thicker air and more drag, reducing its maximum range.

 

Generally, most air-to-air missiles in SF2 will make it to the intercept point if they are fired within the maximum range as defined in the .ini.  One of the few exceptions now is the AIM-54 (either TW or Ravenclaw's), which can die mid-flight or fall out of parameters if a target changes its vector and the missile is launched around R_max.  The missile either runs out of power (300 seconds in the .ini) or runs out of speed.  For most other missiles, however, even turning and running many times won't work against advanced AAMs.  They either have too low drag, too powerful a motor, or both.  Something I've been doing is messing with the drag profiles of various missiles to try to make them handle a bit more realistically.  Mixed results so far, but my AIM-7F is a little closer to the published numbers I have available.  If you think the AIM-120 is too easily able to shoot you down, even at R_max while you're flying 90-degrees angle-off or running, you might try to adjust those numbers.  The AIM-120 is good, but it is still bound by physics!

[Snailman 517]

Generally, most air-to-air missiles in SF2 will make it to the intercept point if they are fired within the maximum range as defined in the .ini.  One of the few exceptions now is the AIM-54 (either TW or Ravenclaw's), which can die mid-flight or fall out of parameters if a target changes its vector and the missile is launched around R_max.  The missile either runs out of power (300 seconds in the .ini) or runs out of speed.  For most other missiles, however, even turning and running many times won't work against advanced AAMs.  They either have too low drag, too powerful a motor, or both.  Something I've been doing is messing with the drag profiles of various missiles to try to make them handle a bit more realistically.  Mixed results so far, but my AIM-7F is a little closer to the published numbers I have available.  If you think the AIM-120 is too easily able to shoot you down, even at R_max while you're flying 90-degrees angle-off or running, you might try to adjust those numbers.  The AIM-120 is good, but it is still bound by physics!

 

I hope I did fix that for - at least - the soviet missiles. SAM included. As for range, max speed and effectiveness.

 

But I would like to see a rationalized Blue side...  ballistics fixed, hit probability (practical, not advertised... ahem) adjusted...

 

 

AMRAAM... I guess it's not just the range. Many things need to take care of. IF we have the necessary data at all. IF it is accurate. Fairly new equipment is usually better advertised - or confidential..

 

Turn G, angle rate, ballistics (booster, duration, sustainer), duration (how much time is allowed after the engine cut off.. flight in passive phase), and of course the most spectacular - Noise and CM resistance....

Max Launch range is not equal to max effective range. Max launch range can include passive phase when the missile is decelerating with no engine but can still hit less maneuverable and slower targets.. It is possible the set missiles correctly - use the booster/sustainer values well, set accurate missile duration (self destruct time), fine tune with drag values.

 

Test launch, test launch, test launch - 1000 times test launch**. Use the rearm key for unlimited stores

 

Good target planes for various missiles:  A-4C (with no jammer) or MiG-21MF, Vautour/ Il-28/Canberra, Tu-16 (both with or wo. jammer), F-105, F-4J (with jammer and CM), B-52D (stock with 50 jammer str, but with fixed engine hit zone). Check Noise resistance at low altitude*, as well as against jammers. Same value against both... that's we have in SF tho.

 

 

EDIT: *also revise the plane radars, some older ones also need to be checked for MinRadarAltitude in avionics.ini - those planes which tend to work well for AI (turkey shoot) but the player finds the radar to be unusable at low alt

         ** during test launch you can also test your radars Search and Track Range/Strength. Substract noise jammer strength from your search strength

Edited May 16, 2016 by Snailman