Gepard

Some data to the soviets in Korea: The 324.IAD (Fighterdivision) 6738 missions claimed to have shot down 215 planes lost 26 planes (written off) and 9 pilots (killed in combat) top scorer Yevgenij Pepeljayev with 109 mission, 38 dogfights and 19 shot down planes (15 kills are confirmed by american sources) 303. IAD unknown number of missions claimed to have shot down 302 enemy planes lost between 34 and 50 planes (written off) [there are various sources with different lost figures. Some state, that only 30 MiG-15 were lost, but two of the 3 fighter regiments (523.IAP + 18.GwIAP) lost 34 planes (16+18)] 18 pilots were killed in combat top scorer Nikolay Sutyagin with 21 kills (13 can confirmed by american sources) This 2 divisons operated in 1951 till January (?) 1952 in Korea. They were equipped with WW2 veterans, which already had fought against Nazi Germany and Japan. The later divisions which replaced the veterans were mostly "green" and had fewer pilots with combat experience. The results thatswhy became disappointing. The american system of constant replacement of pilots with an included learning by doing phase was much superior to the soviet system of replacing entire units. So the know how of the veterans could be learned much more effective by the rookies, then by the soviets. The Koljas learned this lesson very slowly. But in early 1953 the pilots of the elite divisions became trainers of the next soviet fighter divisions which were to deploy to Korea in late 1953 with MiG-17. In the memoires of Pepeljajew it sound like this course was a soviet style "Top Gun school" (By the way, the USSR had such a school, if i remember correctly in Turkmenistan) The caesefire of Panmunjon stopped this activities. Were are the informations from? This are mostly from the memoires of Pepeljajew. You must not forget, that the soviets denied till the end of the USSR that soviet pilots had fought in Korea. There were never kill : loss ratios published. In contrary to the western press it was in no soviet book to read what happend in Korea. In the books i could get in the GDR , you could read between the lines (i hope this is the correct english term) that there must have been something, but never a figure or a ratio. [Ergo nix brainwashing during commy times was all top secret] All data which were published after the break down of the USSR came from former internal soviet reports. This reports were "top secret" in the Cold war time. And it is doubtfull, that the soviet military had cheaten itself by extreme overclaiming. But there is also the word of Pepeljajew who said: "Not all was is called a kill was really a kill." Dave, the source of the "6hits are 1 kill" rule i will try to find in my archive. Could be a little bit timeconsuming. EDIT: one source i have found very quickly, but there are more which i'm still looking for: Jörg Friedrich "Yalu" Propylaeen Verlag published 2007 ISBN 978-3-549-07338-4 Page 414 "Ein Volltreffer wurde offiziell gewertet, wenn die "gun-camera" sieben Einschüsse oder drei Brände registrierte." translated " A kill was officially counted if the "gun-camera" registered 7 hits or 3 burns."

With "strange" (I set the word in " " with good reasons) i mean the kind how the american count their kills. In the most cases it is the perfect way of self cheating. And this is dangerous, because you get the tendecy to underestimate the enemy. This tendency of wrong counting kills is very old. Already in WW1 the Entente pilots counted a shot down german plane twice if two pilots fired on it or tripple if it was a 3vs1 dogfight. Its very good for statistics, but in reality the opposing forces are stronger then they should be. During WW2 the concept of shared kills was introduced but in reality it was often very different. I think i have told the story often enough here in this forum, but i will do it again to explain what i mean. The uncle of my mother was fighter pilot in the Reichsluftverteidigung. He had flown the Me-410 and Me-110. During one intercept mission he was attacked by 4 american fighters (his wingman had to fight the other 4 Mustangs). Both german planes were shooten down, both crews escaped by parachute, one american pilot tried to shoot on the men on the parachutes, but missed. At this day only 2 german planes were lost, but 8 american fighter pilots were credited with one kill. What means, that on the paper 6 planes were shooten down more as in reality. Same procedure in Korea. A MiG-15 was counted as shooten down if the gun camera showed 6 hits. Problem. Often the MiG-15 came home with 50 and more holes in the body, the record was over 250. And after a short repair the birds were in the air again. On the other side the american counting reduced the number of shot down own planes artificaly. So they got the fantastic 14:1 kill ratio. In the reality it was 1:1 against soviet flown MiG-15 and 6:1 against chinese MiG-15 units. If you ask on which side of the wall i grew up. I think it is obviesly, it was the eastern part. Thatswhy i know soviet technic by first hand, know their strenght and weaknesses. And after the change i had the chance to get hands on western technic. And so i can say, that both sides have their strenght and weaknesses. But to overestimate the own strenght and underestimate the enemies strenght can become deadly. Look to Iraq. During operation Iraqi Freedom in 2003 the US forces lost no single M1 Abrams. During occupation time, when the iraqis started the fighting, the US lost per week a M1, because they underestimated the enemy. Now im on the other side on the wall (and this is good so), but i dont want that we underestimate our opponents. Thatswhy im very critical with "shining reports".

File Name: Baltic Entrance (Ostseeausgang) File Submitter: Gepard File Submitted: 28 May 2012 File Category: Terrains Baltic Entrance Terrain (Ostseeausgang) ***************************************************** This terrain is written for WOE. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ I. Short description: The terrain covers the baltic entrance, the bottleneck of Denmark which is blocking the free way from the Baltic Sea to the north Sea. You can fly over entire Denmark, to most southern part of Norway and Sweden, northern Poland, Northern east and West Germany and a very small part of the Netherlands. The terrain is set as a cold war scenario. You will find the NATO with Norway, Denmark, West Germany and the Netherlands as blue power, the WP states GDR and PR Poland (plus soviet bases in this contries) as red powers and the neutral Sweden. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ II. INSTALLATION: Unzip all files into your Wings Over Europe /terrain folder. Put folder UnimogBW into your objects/groundobjects folder. Thats it. Q: What is to do to make it usable for WOI,WOV and SFP1? For WOI open file Osteeeausgang.ini with notepad editor overwrite line CatFile=..\GermanyCE\GermanyCE.cat with CatFile=..\IsraelME\IsraelME.cat For WOV open file Persischer Golf.ini with notepad editor overwrite line CatFile=..\GermanyCE\GermanyCE.cat with CatFile=..\VietnamSEA\VietnamSEA.cat For SFP1open file Persischer Golf.ini with notepad editor overwrite line CatFile=..\GermanyCE\GermanyCE.cat with CatFile=..\desert\desert.cat Then you must download a tileset which is made for WOE GermanyCE terrain and install into the Ostseeausgang folder. Be aware, that there are some new tiles, so that your terrain could be look something strange. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ III. Credits. I want to say thank you to all guys who helped me to create the this terrain, and made the new ground objects like cars, fireengine, run- and taxiways, shelters, Unimog etc... ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ IV. This Terrain is Freeware. Commercial use is not allowed. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ V. For remarks, comments, bugs, etc please use CombatAce forum or send me a PM. Hope you enjoy it. Michael (Gepard) Made in Germany 28 May 2012 Click here to download this file

I dont say, that the soviets wasnt there. In contrary. During my military time, i heared some stories about it. But a lot of statements are simply rubbish. Take this: " An F-105 Thud pilot, Jack Broughton, was the author of the book Thud Ridge, where he saw a VPAF F-6 (Chinese MiG-19 Farmer clone) flown by a Soviet pilot. He looked up close and personal with the pilot and saw his blond hair and blue eyes. It was obvious that he was a Soviet." He saw his blonde hair! Wow? And i stupid boy always thought that the pilots had helmets on their heads. He saw his bule eyes! Again WOW!!!! And i stupid boy always thought that pilots had their pilot goggles. Maybe american eyes are better than the rest of the world and they can see trough plastics and leather helmets to realize which color the hair of an other pilot has. And perhaps they also see through a pilots goggle to realize the color of the eyes of an other pilot. Maybe ... I cant do it. If you ask me which color have the eyes of someone who is 20 meters away, then i have my problems to realize it. At 50 meters i'm happy if i can realize the white in the eye of on other, but ro realize the color of the pupille ... No way, this i cant do. The story of Col Tomb was always an american story. It came up when pictures of a MiG-21 were seen with 13 (?) litte red stars. But the western observers mixed the western credit system with the vietnamese system. While in west the pilot was credited with a kill, the vietnamese credited the plane. The 13 kill marks does not mean, that one single pilot had 13 kills, but that the plane was flown in 13 successfull combats. Mako. You ask wheter i'm a little bit bitter. You are right. When i grew up i was sick to get to much "red light" nonesense, but i'm also sick to hear "back, blue or whatever light" nonesense. I'm not bitter about the fact, that is said, that the soviets were in vietnam, its the kind how it is said and how true and false informations were mixed and all on the level of the yellow press. By the way SayWhatt, the guy you mention was a SAM operator (hope that it is the correct english term), not a pilot. But it is true, that soviet SAM operators fired missiles during Vietnam war and shot down american planes. And it is also true, that the vietnamese SAM crews were trained by east german standard procedures and timeframes (only difference, they needed up to 3 times more personal to do the same job like a east german crew, and they had pure women SAM crews which we had not had)

Yeah, that is the "strange" kind of kills which american fighter pilots often use. The real story is, that the MiG-21U was heading home after a training mission when it was attacked by F-4. THe soviet instructor pilot took over the control and evaded all missiles which the Phantoms shot on the MiG. When the MiG runs out of fuel he gave the oder to eject and left the plane with his vietnamese comrade. When the plane went down without pilots and engine power it was shooten down by the Phantoms. Only american rules count such incidents as a "Kill". And by the way, your source is not reliable. Why? The writer stated that he had interviewed a former VietCong, who said ..... bla bla etc. VietCong was in South Vietnam in North Vietnam it was NVA. MiG's does not operated in the south till spring 1975.

World of Tanks online game Battlestar Galactica online game and the good old Rome Total War

Leck? Why not.

a translation tour for our only english speaking friends: english: airbase dutch: Vliegbasis danish: Flyvestation swedish: Flygplats polish: Lotnisko russian: Aerodrom (with Aerodrom marked airfields were used by soviet forces during cold war) east german: Flugplatz west german: Fliegerhorst

Low flying? No problem! :grin: :grin: :grin:

Does it happen with a "clean" installation or do you use some mods? For instance, a CTD can happen, if you try to fly a plane which needs a large airfield while the terrain has no large airfields.

I will improve the terrain, when i have found out, how to handle the NEUTRAL side correctly. At the moment all swedish bases are set as neutral. I made this decision to simulate a NATO vs WP scenario. For a Sweden as NATO ally vs WP scenario all swedish bases must reset from NEUTRAL to FRIENDLY. And, by the way, enjoy the newly designed squadron take offs. 16 birds now need only 42 seconds for take of.

Try to uninstall the game and then a new installation. Test, wheter the game runs without the patch and when it runs fine, then patch it to level oct2008.

Pfingstmontag.

cool skin

File Name: 1962 the germans at Red Thunder File Submitter: Gepard File Submitted: 26 May 2012 File Category: User Made Campaigns This campaign is made for a tutorial with the title: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ What i must do to to bring a new Air Force in a stock campaign? =========================================== Lets say i want to mod the WOE stock campaign Red Thunder 1962 and want to include the westgerman and the east german airforces. First we need the files woeCamp1.ini and WOECAMP1_DATA.ini both files you find in the folder Campaigns/woeCamp1 if not, then you must extract them with an extraction tool like SFP1E extractor Make following steps: 1.) open files woeCamp1.ini with windows notepad editor 2.) look for the lines [CampaignData] CampaignName=1962 DataFile=1962_data.ini CampaignMap=GermanyCE Service001=USAF Service002=RAF Service003=France 3.) add now Service004=EGermany Service005=WGermany 4.) save the file. Now we have included the Luftwaffe and the LSK/LV as new airforces which can deploy units in the campaign. Our next step is to bring 2 east german and 3 west german units in the campaign. The east germans we place at Holzdorf AB and Peenemünde while the west germans we place at Wittmundhafen, Neuburg and Büchel. 5.) open file WOECAMP1_DATA.ini with notepad editor scroll to the last airunit entry which is [AirUnit078] AircraftType=IL-28 UnitName=305 BFAP ForceID=2 Nation=SOVIET StartDate=11/15/1962 DefaultTexture=SovietSilver1 BaseArea=Parchim Airbase ...................... 6.) after this entry we will place the 2 east german units // ----------------------------------LSK [AirUnit079] AircraftType=MiG-17F UnitName=JG-8 ForceID=2 Nation=EGermany DefaultTexture=SovietSilver1 BaseArea=Holzdorf Airbase BaseMoveChance=10 RandomChance=100 MaxAircraft=16 StartAircraft=16 MaxPilots=16 StartPilots=16 Experience=50 Morale=80 Supply=50 MissionChance[sWEEP]=40 MissionChance[CAP]=40 MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=40 MissionChance[ESCORT]=0 MissionChance=25 MissionChance[CAS]=25 MissionChance[sEAD]=0 MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=0 MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0 MissionChance[RECON]=0 UpgradeType=NEVER Supply[001].WeaponType=FAB250 Supply[001].Quantity=880 Supply[002].WeaponType=UV16 Supply[002].Quantity=440 Supply[003].WeaponType=Tank400_MiG17 Supply[003].Quantity=240 [AirUnit080] AircraftType=MiG-21F UnitName=JG-2 ForceID=2 Nation=EGermany DefaultTexture=LSK BaseArea=Peenemünde Airbase BaseMoveChance=10 RandomChance=100 MaxAircraft=16 StartAircraft=16 MaxPilots=16 StartPilots=16 Experience=50 Morale=80 Supply=50 MissionChance[sWEEP]=40 MissionChance[CAP]=40 MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=40 MissionChance[ESCORT]=20 MissionChance=25 MissionChance[CAS]=25 MissionChance[sEAD]=0 MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=0 MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0 MissionChance[RECON]=0 UpgradeType=NEVER Supply[001].WeaponType=FAB100 Supply[001].Quantity=480 Supply[002].WeaponType=FAB250 Supply[002].Quantity=880 Supply[003].WeaponType=FAB500 Supply[003].Quantity=300 Supply[004].WeaponType=UV16 Supply[004].Quantity=440 Supply[005].WeaponType=Tank490_MiG21 Supply[005].Quantity=240 Supply[006].WeaponType=AA-2 Supply[006].Quantity=240 7.) and now the 3 west german units //------------------------Bundesluftwaffe [AirUnit081] AircraftType=F-104G Squadron=JG 71 ForceID=1 Nation=WGermany DefaultTexture=GermanSilver1 BaseArea=Wittmundhafen Airbase BaseMoveChance=10 RandomChance=100 MaxAircraft=16 StartAircraft=16 MaxPilots=16 StartPilots=16 Experience=100 Morale=100 Supply=50 MissionChance[sWEEP]=25 MissionChance[CAP]=50 MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=50 MissionChance[ESCORT]=25 MissionChance=25 MissionChance[CAS]=50 MissionChance[sEAD]=25 MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=25 MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0 MissionChance[RECON]=10 UpgradeType=NEVER Supply[001].WeaponType=M117 Supply[001].Quantity=880 Supply[002].WeaponType=Mk82 Supply[002].Quantity=440 Supply[003].WeaponType=Mk84 Supply[003].Quantity=240 Supply[004].WeaponType=LAU-3A Supply[004].Quantity=240 Supply[005].WeaponType=Tank195_F104 Supply[005].Quantity=240 Supply[006].WeaponType=Tank170_F104 Supply[006].Quantity=240 Supply[007].WeaponType=AIM-9B Supply[007].Quantity=240 Supply[008].WeaponType=BLU-1 Supply[008].Quantity=480 Supply[009].WeaponType=CBU-24B Supply[009].Quantity=80 [AirUnit082] AircraftType=F-104G Squadron=JG 74 ForceID=1 Nation=WGermany DefaultTexture=GermanSilver1 BaseArea=Neuburg Airbase BaseMoveChance=10 RandomChance=100 MaxAircraft=16 StartAircraft=16 MaxPilots=16 StartPilots=16 Experience=100 Morale=100 Supply=50 MissionChance[sWEEP]=25 MissionChance[CAP]=50 MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=50 MissionChance[ESCORT]=25 MissionChance=25 MissionChance[CAS]=50 MissionChance[sEAD]=25 MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=25 MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0 MissionChance[RECON]=10 UpgradeType=NEVER Supply[001].WeaponType=M117 Supply[001].Quantity=880 Supply[002].WeaponType=Mk82 Supply[002].Quantity=440 Supply[003].WeaponType=Mk84 Supply[003].Quantity=240 Supply[004].WeaponType=LAU-3A Supply[004].Quantity=240 Supply[005].WeaponType=Tank195_F104 Supply[005].Quantity=240 Supply[006].WeaponType=Tank170_F104 Supply[006].Quantity=240 Supply[007].WeaponType=AIM-9B Supply[007].Quantity=240 Supply[008].WeaponType=BLU-1 Supply[008].Quantity=480 Supply[009].WeaponType=CBU-24B Supply[009].Quantity=80 [AirUnit083] AircraftType=F-104G Squadron=JBG 33 ForceID=1 Nation=WGermany DefaultTexture=GermanCamo1 BaseArea=Büchel Airbase BaseMoveChance=10 RandomChance=100 MaxAircraft=16 StartAircraft=16 MaxPilots=16 StartPilots=16 Experience=100 Morale=100 Supply=50 MissionChance[sWEEP]=5 MissionChance[CAP]=20 MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=20 MissionChance[ESCORT]=25 MissionChance=55 MissionChance[CAS]=50 MissionChance[sEAD]=55 MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=55 MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0 MissionChance[RECON]=10 UpgradeType=NEVER Supply[001].WeaponType=M117 Supply[001].Quantity=880 Supply[002].WeaponType=Mk82 Supply[002].Quantity=440 Supply[003].WeaponType=Mk84 Supply[003].Quantity=240 Supply[004].WeaponType=LAU-3A Supply[004].Quantity=240 Supply[005].WeaponType=Tank195_F104 Supply[005].Quantity=240 Supply[006].WeaponType=Tank170_F104 Supply[006].Quantity=240 Supply[007].WeaponType=AIM-9B Supply[007].Quantity=240 Supply[008].WeaponType=BLU-1 Supply[008].Quantity=480 Supply[009].WeaponType=CBU-24B Supply[009].Quantity=80 8.) save the file. BE CAREFULL: you must place the units at existing airfields. Which AB are existant you find in the GermanyCE_targets.ini. Make sure that the names of the baseses are the same in Targets.ini and campaign_data.ini. For instance if you write BaseArea=Wittmundhaven Airbase instead BaseArea=Wittmundhafen Airbase the unit will not exist in game. After this we must include the new created air units into the woeCamp1.ini file, if we want to fly the birds of this units. If not, then we have nothing to do anymore. But i want to fly the MiG's for the LSK and the Starfighters for the Luftwaffe, so we continue: 9.) open file woeCamp1.ini 10.) scroll to the end and include following lines: //LSK units [EGermanyUnit001] UnitName=JG-8 ForceID=2 UnitID=34 StartDate=1962 DescFile=woe1Start.txt StartText=woe1Start1.txt AircraftType=MiG-17F [EGermanyUnit002] UnitName=JG-2 ForceID=2 UnitID=35 StartDate=1962 DescFile=woe1Start.txt StartText=woe1Start1.txt AircraftType=MiG-21F //Bundesluftwaffe units [WGermanyUnit001] UnitName=JG 71 ForceID=1 UnitID=46 StartDate=1962 DescFile=woe1Start.txt StartText=woe1Start1.txt AircraftType=F-104G [WGermanyUnit002] UnitName=JG 74 ForceID=1 UnitID=47 StartDate=1962 DescFile=woe1Start.txt StartText=woe1Start1.txt AircraftType=F-104G [WGermanyUnit003] UnitName=JBG 33 ForceID=1 UnitID=48 StartDate=1962 DescFile=woe1Start.txt StartText=woe1Start1.txt AircraftType=F-104G The most problematic part is the UnitID= number you must count which number the single unit has. For the blue side and for the red side. For instance, the JG-71 is the 46th blue unit. To get this number is relativly simple. You must look in the WOECAMP_DATA.ini and look for the last "blue" air unit. If you look right it is the 42nd TRS which has in the campaign the air unit number 045 [AirUnit045]. Thatywhy the next blue air unit has the UnitID=46, then comes 47 and so on. With the red air units it is a little bit mor difficult, because the first red air unit has in the data.ini the number [AirUnit046]. But in the woecamp.ini it is not designated as UnitID=46, because it is the first "red" air unit and thatswhy would get the designation UnitID=1 (only if the unit would be flyable) To get the correct UnitID= number of the 2 east german units we must count all red air units. If you do it you will see that we have in the stock campaign 33 soviet (red) air units. Thatswhy the first east german unit get the number UnitID=34 and the other UnitID=35 11.) Save the file. 12.) Finally comes the testing of the campaign. Thats it. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Installation: Unzip the file in the WOE/Campaigns folder ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ This campaign is freeware. Commercial use is not allowed. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hope you enjoy it. Michael (Gepard) Made in Germany May.2012 Click here to download this file

Lets say at Monday?

Tutorial you find at: http://combatace.com/topic/72817-adding-new-air-services-in-a-campaign/page__pid__573330#entry573330

Will come with Baltic entrance (Denmark) terrain.

16 Hunter bereit zum Geschwaderstart Und los gehts!

Hunters during full squadron take off

Do you use WOI as basic game? Which files do you have in your SF Gold campaigns?

THe campaigns from SF Gold are written for desert terrain. WOI use IsrealME terrain.

Die Bilder stammen aus den Wehrtechnischen Sammlungen in Koblenz, oder ...? Ich glaube, die haben da nur Übungsflugkörper (Übungsraketen). Wäre auch zu riskant in einem öffentlich zugänglichen Raum mit Treibstoff gefüllte Raketen rumliegen zu haben, geschweige denn von nem Sprengkopf. Auf einem der Bilder (drittes von unten) steht ja auch Dummy auf ner Rakete und auf den zweiten Bild von oben ist ne sowjetische R-23 zu sehen, da steht in kyrillischen Buchstaben "Utschebno-..." drauf, das heißt Übung auf russisch.

What i expect? After NA? More trouble