Interesting Vietnam-era SAM tidbits

[Fubar512 1,350]

I recently found my rather well-worn paperback copy of "On Yankee Station" by Cmdr. John B. Nichols. I must have picked this book up almost 20 years ago....

 

Anyway, I was reading into the wee hours of the morning, and found some interesting facts about the types of SAMs deployed in the closing months of the war.

 

It seems that in the late winter of 1972, the Soviets starting equipping the Viet SA-2s with home-on-jam and electro-optical guidance. They also began supplying the North Vietnamese with SA-3 Goas.

 

The SA-2 that shot down Randy Cunningham did not give any warning, there was no electrical indication of a launch...Cunningham simply received a warning that a SAM had just lifted off near Nam Dinh, and he managed to spot the speeding missile just in time to break hard into it. The missile went off close enough to damage his hydraulics, and the rest is history.

 

In mid-September, a large SAM managed to shoot down an F-4, despite all efforts to defeat it electronically. They code-named the seemingly jam-proof SAM the "Fat-Black". It may have been the first encounter with an SA-3.

 

So, I've created a new entry in my weapondata.ini for what I call the "Improved SA-2F Guideline Mod 5B".

 

Copy and paste the data between the dotted lines onto your existing WoV weapondata.ini, taking care that you maintain the existing number sequence. Then, save it, and validate it with the weapon editor.

 

..................................................

[WeaponDataXXX]

TypeName=SA-2F

FullName=Improved SA-2F Guideline Mod 5B

ModelName=sa-2

Mass=2287.000000

Diameter=0.650000

Length=10.800000

AttachmentType=

NationName=SOVIET

StartYear=1972

EndYear=0

Availability=2

BaseQuantity=2

Exported=TRUE

ExportStartYear=1972

ExportAvailability=2

WeaponDataType=1

RailLaunched=FALSE

RocketPod=FALSE

Retarded=FALSE

Streamlined=TRUE

FinStabilized=TRUE

SpinStabilized=FALSE

HasGrowl=FALSE

EffectClassName=LargeMissileEffects

ReleaseDelay=600.000000

WarheadType=0

Explosives=195.000000

FusingDistance=25.000000

ClusterBomblets=0

ClusterDispersion=0.000000

GuidanceType=12

Accuracy=80.000000

MaxTurnRate=12.000000

MaxLaunchG=0.000000

LockonChance=80.000000

LaunchReliability=85.000000

ArmingTime=4.000000

SeekerFOV=60.000000

SeekerGimbleLimit=135.000000

SeekerTrackRate=11.000000

SeekerRange=55000.000000

MinLaunchRange=6000.000000

MaxLaunchRange=55000.000000

Duration=185.000000

CounterCountermeasure=40.000000

NoiseRejection=40.000000

CapabilityFlags=0x10000018

BoosterStart=0.000000

BoosterDuration=4.500000

BoosterAccel=30.000000

BoosterEffectName=LargeMissileFireEffect

BoosterSoundName=Missile

BoosterNodeName=booster

BoosterPosition=0.000000,-6.590000,0.000000

SustainerDuration=22.000000

SustainerAccel=10.000000

SustainerEffectName=LargeSAMTrailEffect

SustainerSoundName=Afterburner

SustainerPosition=0.000000,-4.050000,0.000000

InFlightEffectName=SAMFlightEffect

InFlightSoundName=Afterburner

ReleaseAnimationID=-1

.................................................

 

Here's what it should look like in the weapon editor:

 

 

*Note...the inflight effect name I referenced is my smokeless SAM effect, it causes the SA-2/3s to appear as "flaming telephone poles", leaving no visible trail while in flight. Not for the faint of heart

[Scout_51 0]

in the same time frame we started using tow missiles and the viets used strellas...so you might want add those two items to the file..at least one cobra bit the dust due to strellasthe quick fix was that ugly upwards bent pipe on the exaust....

[Fubar512 1,350]

in the same time frame we started using tow missiles and the viets used strellas...so you might want add those two items to the file..at least one cobra bit the dust due to strellasthe quick fix was that ugly upwards bent pipe on the exaust....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Scout_51,

 

I neglected to add (in my first post), that I've added both the Grail and the Goa to WoV, from the latest weapons pack. Good catch on the Grail, they were used successfully by the NVA later in the war.

Edited April 6, 2005 by Fubar512

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Shee-oot. We really need some Western/US SAM's in this arms race, as they

are woefully deficit at this time... :(

[Fubar512 1,350]

Shee-oot.  We really need some Western/US SAM's in this arms race, as they

are woefully deficit at this time...  :(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean like Chaparrals, and Hawks? Thanks to Pasko (who is a gentleman and a scholar, I feel compelled to add) I already have those :)

 

Want'em?

 

[+Spectre_USA 7]

You are SUCH a tease!

 

>slobber<

 

Yesh, please! :D

[+MK2 12]

Fubar upload!!!!!

 

Very nice , all of it!

[Fubar512 1,350]

Fubar upload!!!!!

 

Very nice , all of it!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

MK2, much as I'd like to, I cannot upload it without Pasko's permission. Sharing it with one fellow board member is one thing, but making accessible to everyone is not cool without the author's permission.

 

Tell you what, I'll email Pasko and get his permission, I'm sure he'll say "Go Ahead"

[Fubar512 1,350]

UPDATE:

 

I've just heard from Pasko, he's working on an updated ground objects pack that should be ready soon....

[+Spectre_USA 7]

 

Yeah, baby! SAM support for the US? Sierra Hotel, I can't wait to mess up it's install...

[Fubar512 1,350]

 

Yeah, baby!  SAM support for the US?  Sierra Hotel, I can't wait to mess up it's install... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I sent you those files on your Gmail account, Spectre...

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Got `em!

 

Installing now. This should rock!

 

Gonna see if any show up of their own accord in the `Nam `84 test scenerio...

[+MK2 12]

Got `em!

 

Installing now.  This should rock!

 

Gonna see if any show up of their own accord in the `Nam `84 test scenerio...

Spectre keep an eye out for possibilities in Vietnam 1984 campaign Mod., I am kind of busy right now and won't be able to test it for a while.

 

let us know :)

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Well,

 

I got lucky and found a few hours to putz around with these thingmies, as I am really hyped on

getting some Western SAMs in this simulation. Preliminary indications are not so good, unfortunately.

 

Not one missile reached out to slap down a MiG in the test mission I cooked up. They were a

little fa-klemped, or grounded, if you want to get technical.

 

 

The Chaparral is a no show. More tweaking required, but it is beyond my hopelessly limited

INI editing skills.

 

It's super cool to see some NATO SAMs in game, these things will rock with a little TLC.

Much appreciado to Pasko for getting them this far!

 

[Fubar512 1,350]

Spectre,

 

 

Try this: Open up the HawkL_Data.INI and edit the groundobject section so it looks like this:

 

[GroundObjectData]

DamagedModel=

DestroyedModel=sa-2_launcher_destroyed.LOD

DestroyedEffect=VehicleFireEffect

EmptyMass=1900.00

Component[001]=Chassis

Component[002]=Launcher

Component[003]=Rails<---------add this

 

I think Pasko may not have defined that last one in the data.ini, as it IS defined in the lod file! I'll try it myself....

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Shoot.

I added the 3rd component, I had tried swapping the 2 before, and there is no change.

Still slung under the chassis. I hesitate on trying to change the missile placement

numbers, as I will prolly botch `em badly.

 

How are you reading the LOD file?

[Fubar512 1,350]

How are you reading the LOD file?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Well, if it's any consolation, I did not see the SAMs loaded on the launcher...but I did have one fired at me....in stealth mode! BTW, what you refered to as an "IR" seeker is really a Hawk HIPIR...a High Powered Illuminator Radar unit.

 

Try this is your terrain types folder:

 

[TargetTypeXXX]

Name=Hawk_CWAR

FullName=Hawk Early Warning Radar

TargetType=EW_RADAR

UseGroundObject=TRUE

ActiveYear=1965

TargetValue=250

RepairRate=3.22

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

[TargetTypeXXX]

Name=Hawk_HIPIR

FullName=HAWK High-Powered Illuminator Radar

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

UseGroundObject=TRUE

ActiveYear=1965

TargetValue=200

RepairRate=3.22

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

[TargetTypeXXX]

Name=HawkL

FullName=Hawk SAM Launcher

TargetType=SAM_LAUNCHER

UseGroundObject=TRUE

ActiveYear=1965

TargetValue=100

RepairRate=3.22

StartDetectChance=20

StartIdentifiedChance=0

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=0

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=50

 

UPDATE.....Breaking News from the great one himself: http://home.earthlink.net/~pasko_patak/vehicles.html

Edited April 8, 2005 by Fubar512

[+Spectre_USA 7]

Yeah buddy!

 

Didja see that list? Yommy!

 

I hope my meager observations were of some miniscule assistance...