Down in Flames

[+Gr.Viper]

Wow... great links!

Hey, this video has the second S.12 picture I posted in 'planes'. Different angle but same plane and people...

[+kendo353]

cheers for the linkage, smosh. i'd been put off ww1 colour films by the

unsympathetic and splodgy hand-tinting which had gone on in the past,

but these look great.

[catch]

Mmmmm it's gone quiet. You must be working hard on DIF Ken.... or been tempted down to the pub lol ...... cheers

[+kendo353]

Mmmmm it's gone quiet. You must be working hard on DIF Ken.... or been tempted down to the pub lol ...... cheers

Hey Catch.... I don't drink.... and i'm still hard at it. :)

It's the gigging season (i'm in Turin on thursday).

 

still waiting on the engine update for heightmapped terrain and shader support.

but the flight model is coming on well.

 

bit surprised at people's lack of enthusiasm to create something NEW,

which is why I've not been posting here much.

 

no worries, m8.

it's unfolding nicely.

 

[Thomas H]

Lack of support? I'm mostly a lurker and don't post all that much, but following the development of Down in flames is very exciting and I really look forward to take one of your beauties for a spin.

 

Have faith in us and keep up the good work, Ken

 

Thomas

[+kendo353]

Hi Thomas,

 

people on CA have been very kind, and encouraging. there's no "lack of support".

to expand on the remarks above, I felt it was better to spend time on coding, than

posting stuff here. which would not push the game onwards.

 

Cerberos06 is helping with the campaign data (thankyou), and other areas

of the game are progressing fine. i'm sorry if i've appeared negative, or dejected.

I'm grateful to Combat Ace, and it's helpful users.

 

people know what's in the pipeline, so it's up to the next level now.

when there's something interesting to post, i'll be back. appreciate

your post... thankyou.

 

regards to you.

[catch]

I think there's a lot of "lurkers" wishing you the best Ken. Very glad to see you're still hard at it and Cerberos06 is helping out. Have a great gig in Turin and let your hair down (in a manner of speaking). All the best.

Edited March 28, 2007 by catch

[+kendo353]

I think there's a lot of "lurkers" wishing you the best Ken.

back, and getting on with it... aided by duty free cigarettes and genuine Italian coffee. wehey!!

we flew in over the alps, which were covered in snow. what incredible beauty...

 

they are breath-takingly awesome when viewed from a height.

vast, too.

 

cheers for the faith, lurker people.

regards to you.

 

ken

[catch]

back, and getting on with it... aided by duty free cigarettes and genuine Italian coffee. wehey!!

we flew in over the alps, which were covered in snow. what incredible beauty...

 

they are breath-takingly awesome when viewed from a height.

vast, too.

 

cheers for the faith, lurker people.

regards to you.

 

ken

 

Hehe I see you've already got the Alps locked in for one of your scenic missions Ken ! Who needs sleep when you've got hard core cigs and caffeine.

[GabiLaser]

...

bit surprised at people's lack of enthusiasm to create something NEW,

which is why I've not been posting here much.

...

 

I'm almost sure what Kendo wants to say is that noone offers to help with the coding. I think programmers in this area are rare, or grouped already to another projects (OFF or KotS).

 

S!

[+kendo353]

I'm almost sure what Kendo wants to say

smile... cheers Gabilaser, but i clarified this already. No disrespect towards anyone was intended.

 

noone offers to help with the coding.

you did..

 

but relax.... i found this.. vertigo flight sim

the flight model is superior to anything i could hope to write, and it's converting over to Angelscript nicely.

 

i'm balancing the project with earning a living at the moment. a situation that many indie developers face.

it would have been nice to have some assistance, but if it is not forthcoming, it's not the end of the world.

 

programmers cost between 21,000 <--> 35,000 in the UK.

it's understandable that they are all busy, or not interested in a free project.

completely.

 

 

i'll be more vocal (and sign up @ sourceForge) when there is something more worth showing.

 

 

regards to you.

kendo

[Uriah]

Just a few ideas.

 

I am an EAW fan and the community has made that game far beyond what it was when it came out. When we play online everyone has to have the same flight models and other items. This is all selected by a program tool called OAW. Now I would like to see a flight sim that is 'open source' - just like Linux is. To get everyone on the same page a tool like OAW could be used. Maybe such a system could pull in more help for this project and yet not make it go off in a thousand directions and so fizzle out.

 

best wishes.

[+kendo353]

Hi Uriah,

 

I am an EAW fan and the community has made that game far beyond what it was when it came out.

WW2 isn't my sphere of interest, but it's undeniably a great game. tilemapping the whole of Europe is an engineering

feat which is still to be marvelled and wondered at today.

 

Now I would like to see a flight sim that is 'open source' - just like Linux is.

agreed. i'll happily donate this project when it's finished, but i do feel that the online portion should be untweakable. anybody with an interest in the subject (including your own good self) is invited to download the free tools from... here . Have a play around with it... see if it is for you.... and if so, i'll send you the whole project.

or a chunk of it which relates to your area of interest. Any help at all would be appreciated. the only "nono" is using the stuff in other sims, before i've had

a chance to release a compiled .exe

 

that is the eventual goal though, and the whole point of the exercise.... free.

 

Maybe such a system could pull in more help for this project and yet not make it go off in a thousand directions and so fizzle out.

I don't know, Uriah. with no disrespect, what you're suggesting sounds a little like "First Eagles" ?

it's fine if people want to tweak their singleplayer games, but online, everybody should be the same.

with the game, innards, and toolkit released, people will be able to tweak stuff to their hearts content.

but i don't think i should give it to "the public" until it's completed.

 

thankyou for the suggestion though. appreciated..

[Uriah]

You are correct when you noticed that what I was suggesting sounds a little like 'First Eagles'. That game and TK's holds the promise but not the reality. The issue with TK's games is that good flight models are very difficult to create. There does not seem to be a program 'tool' to make coding the FM much easier. It seems that manually editing the code is what has to be done. And even if you know what to edit, it takes some one who knows aeronautics well to do the right job. That issue may never change. Plus, TK wants to make money (no problem there) and so does not want certain aspects of his code shared, just small snippets here and there. This makes it slow for a group of interested 'developers' to play online and test models over and over again and refine them.

 

The other issue is that in TK's game there is no 'file selector'. A Mr.Jelly made one (he has done so for EAW). With this 'file selector' program we can swap out different terrains, ground objets, skies, skins, flight and damage models, and just about everything else.

 

What you might want to do is create a good working base program which would include such a 'file swapper'. Once any set is made ANY kind of flight sim could be created by many people. Different sets would be created as sets and people could load those sets to play online and so every one would be on the same page. Your first set would be a WWI set.

 

For me, I work in an office all day using computers. I don't think I want to come home and code. But others might. No matter what you do I wish you good luck.

[+kendo353]

Thanks for the suggestion, Uriah. i take your point, but on the other hand, not everybody wants

to know what their coefficient of lift is, and some people of my acquaintance bemoan the lack of

"game" in that game. the community here obviously seem to enjoy tweaking their First Eagles

textfiles, and i'm happy for them. i hope TK makes a million dollars with it, if thats what he wants.

respect to them. but it's not for me... I'm still enjoying RB3D.

 

trundling around the net, i noticed that Rowan software have given away their "Battle of Britain" source code

(which was formlerly "Flying Corps Gold"). i haven't got it to compile cleanly yet, but that would be a nice framework

to set out from. there's jet code in there too, so it should be possible to extend it once the core graphics have been

updated. the map isn't as mighty as EAW's, but it's still gargantuan. two other sims have sprung out of it, so it's got

a proven track record. Did i mention the AI ? as it was formerly Flying Corps Gold, there are more WW1 maneuveres

in there, than you can shake a stick at. woooohooooo... and free? :yes:

 

For me, I work in an office all day using computers.

deepest sympathies. I used to have nightmares about shunting other peoples data.

I hope they pay you a handsome salary in recompense.

 

cheers for your input and advice, Uriah. appreciated.

[Uriah]

Rowan's BoB code is already been greatly updated by Shockwave. They have two games out based on it - BoBII Wings of Victory and 'Air Battles SKY DEFENDER' which is just a more limited version of BoBII. The issue for Shockwave and its volinteer group of coders is the online engine (it is very poor by todays standards). They hope to add that on later but it is a big question if that can be done because it is written in C and that is a major drawback involving lag and addressing. Just for kicks you might want to check out TargetWare.

 

I guess my major point is that if you produce a solid foundation many others will come and build the house. You don't need to do it all or even most of it.

 

Another thing to check out is in the EAW forum over at SimHQ. Some of the guys are building a WWI version of EAW and are coming along nicely. Of course it will have all the limits of EAW, but they are having fun.

[+kendo353]

Rowan's BoB code is already been greatly updated by Shockwave. They have two games out based on it

nod... thats what i meant when i said it had a proven track record. it gave me hope that the underlying code isn't borked,

and could be expanded upon. a big job, yes...but not impossible.

 

How come Shockwave can make commercial games with it? I thought it was available

only on a strictly "no profit" basis ? Did they come to some agreement with the original authors?

or are *they* the original authors ?

 

the online engine (it is very poor by todays standards). They hope to add that on later but it is a big question if that can be done because it is written in C and that is a major drawback involving lag and addressing.

oh? BoB looks like C++ and assembler to me? if they have the full source, and a team of people... whats stopping them plumbing in a free library ?

(like RakNet, for instance) ?

 

Just for kicks you might want to check out TargetWare.

yeah, i've heard of it... Mossie from Richtofen's Skies got in touch. the planes

and cockpits look very nice indeed, and i'm assured the flight model is great,

but pay-to-play is anathema to my sensibilities.

 

I guess my major point is that if you produce a solid foundation many others will come and build the house. You don't need to do it all or even most of it.

smile... that's what i hoped when i started out, but everybody seems drawn up into their respective camps and never the twain shall meet. I'll keep plugging away at it though, and try to get a playable demo out, building up on the foundations... like you say.

 

Another thing to check out is in the EAW forum over at SimHQ. Some of the guys are building a WWI version of EAW and are coming along nicely. Of course it will have all the limits of EAW, but they are having fun.

thanks for the info, Uriah. i'll check it out... it's good to know that there are many people working in this small genre.

 

cheers..

[gandi]

just saw the link to your project at the OFF forum and thought I'd take a look.

 

Keep up the good work, looks like it should be a lot of fun when you're finished...

[+kendo353]

Hi Guys.. nice to see some new faces..

appreciate the kind words and support.

 

I think you should at least consider taking donations for what you are doing!

thanks for the sentiment, but i haven't actually delivered anything yet.

money does funny things to people and i try to avoid it whenever possible.

 

no denying it would be great to have some ca$h to throw at the project. to hire in

some programmers and speed up the development process. but it also becomes a

job then. with associated stress. better for me to keep it as a hobby, interest, and

a labour of love. thankyou though.

[+kendo353]

Are you planning on adding TrackIR support?

This SDK is only available for developers who are producing games and simulations that will be sold as commercial products to the public.

 

it looks "expensive" ?

[+Gr.Viper]

This SDK is only available for developers who are producing games and simulations that will be sold as commercial products to the public.

Then how come that a free fan-made patch for Enemy Engaged 1 has full TIR support? It wasn't a feature of original game and was introduced only by fans when game source was released open.

[+kendo353]

Then how come that a free fan-made patch for Enemy Engaged 1 has full TIR support? It wasn't a feature of original game and was introduced only by fans when game source was released open.

 

maybe they just changed their minds?

RakNet was free at one point, too. now it has a 'nominal' fee.

 

[catch]

Hi Ken .... surmounting obstacles again ! Your persistence is admirable. As you no doubt have realised the OFF forum has a thread dedicated to DIF and it is generating interest. All the best.

 

Cheers,

catch.

 

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=49053

[Justin]

Hi Ken .... surmounting obstacles again ! Your persistence is admirable. As you no doubt have realised the OFF forum has a thread dedicated to DIF and it is generating interest. All the best.

 

Cheers,

catch.

 

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=49053

 

 

oops, I think I started that I'm jrk9 over there

[catch]

oops, I think I started that I'm jrk9 over there

 

Lol Justin/jrk9 ! I'm catch22 over there ! Thought Ken may be interested in reading some of the positive comments .... if he hasn't already ? He needs all the support he can get so I hope something good comes from your OFF thread.