+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 26, 2007 Im taking the liberty of starting the WIP thread for the N24. EmID has started the 3D model work and Ive started the FM work. Im moving the post by EmID from the N28 where he posts the information he has dug up on the plane. [qoute] There are a related article http://mkmagazin.almanacwhf.ru/avia/neupor_xxivbis.htm in russian :) hehe... there is a data for BIS on that page Power - 120 h/p Length- 6,4 m Wingspan- 8,15 m Wing Area - 15m2 Max waight - 567kg Speed - 170 km/h Climb to 3000m- 9,4min And here my digget up links: http://www.worldwar1.com/dbc/npt24.htm http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...inct_entry=true http://ww1.iatp.org.ua/awNewpor24c.htm http://www.cofe.ru/avia/N/N-46.htm http://eroplan.boom.ru/shavrov/chr5/forin/france3.htm http://aircraft.lintec.ru/src/mod/nieu_2427.htm [/qoute] What I would like to see more of is links or references from books on how the plane handled. Ive got a very interesting first FM which does model the difference in wing size quite well. Its still got alot of work to it but here are the main features I wana bring forward... 1. Extreamly small bottom wing. 2. Very large elevators. 3. Any other characteristics found in books. But I do think its important to model the visuals.. if it feels like it looks then you get immersion factor... Once there is a N24.rar to download the link will be posted in this thread. Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firecage 1 Posted January 26, 2007 LOL man ya know the great thing about this game is it's like christmas all the time with new planes and stuff coming out every few days ..... <Firecage does the happy snoopy dance> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Red Von Hammer 0 Posted January 26, 2007 Agreed! You guys are doing a terrific job :D I love the N28 Flight Model! Am looking forward to the N24 :D keep it up! Salute! RvH Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFM 18 Posted January 26, 2007 You are probably going to already, but please announce when that N28 "goes gold" and is available for download! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 27, 2007 Hi, here preview of N24bis How do i edit the Coallision Points, and the MinMaxExt Positions (boxes....) Please share the procedure Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest capun Posted January 27, 2007 Very strange, my previous post did not get saved. Ok Try #2 Collision Points are used for ground collision calculations, they are normally the lowest part of a mesh. When that point hits the ground it will cause the mesh to be damaged/destroyed. You can use as many as you want but they take computing power to do the calculations so 3 or 4 should be enough. In 3DS Max, use your Points Helper. Select the mesh (for example the fuselage) and create Points along the bottom of the fuselage. I name them something like Fuse01, Fuse02, etc. Now here I will disgress a bit, you may need a collision point on top of the fuselage for ground loops, I need to test this theory yet. Export the Points, the model.ini file created will have the X,Y,Z coordinated that you need to use in the data ini file Min/MaxExtentPosition are the two opposite corners of an imaginary damage box. It does not matter what corners as long as they are the opposites. For example you create one point for the fuselage that will be on the rear (-Y Value), lower (-Z value) and leftmost (-X value) part of it. This could be your MinExtentPosition. Now create the MaxExtentPosition on the front (+Y value), top (+Z value) and rightmost (+X Value) part of the fuse. Name the points so you know which mesh it is. Export the points Hope it helps Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted January 28, 2007 Thanx for help Capun! I have another question: On SE5a, there are animated wires by mooving the ailerons...(connection wires from Stick to Aileron) How do i do such anomation? Are they linked to the control surfaces and when the game rotates Ailerons, the wires are moowing too...but how can i link a wire to a sorface...it wont be rotating along ist pivot, it will be mooved by rotating of the parent.... By N28, the control wires are hidden in the wing, but by N24 there are thouse things in upper wings above the pilot, that have to rotate, when i controll the ailerons... So maybe i have to do a new animation for Ailerons with thouse wires togather...what are the solution? Thanx, EmlD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest capun Posted January 28, 2007 Thanx for help Capun! I have another question: On SE5a, there are animated wires by mooving the ailerons...(connection wires from Stick to Aileron) How do i do such anomation? Are they linked to the control surfaces and when the game rotates Ailerons, the wires are moowing too...but how can i link a wire to a sorface...it wont be rotating along ist pivot, it will be mooved by rotating of the parent.... By N28, the control wires are hidden in the wing, but by N24 there are thouse things in upper wings above the pilot, that have to rotate, when i controll the ailerons... So maybe i have to do a new animation for Ailerons with thouse wires togather...what are the solution? Thanx, EmlD Normally the game engine does simple rotation animation along one axis. For example the Ailerons, elevators, rudders. For complex (like Fowler Flaps) or multi-object you need to animate them. Look at our Camel and you can see that the Ailerons have an AnimationID declared. So this is what you do to animate an Aileron 1- Set-up any part that move as a mesh. Example if you have the wires done as one mesh, the wires moving with the aileron have to be an independent mesh. 2- Set-up the meshes pivot points, that includes the wires. I normally set the pivot center at one end of the wire. 3- Be sure that the parts are linked properly. If there is a top aileron, the top wire goes with it, if there is a wire connecting both top and bottom aileron, is your choice to which aileron to link 3- Let's say that you are going to use AnimationID=3 for the ailerons. At frame 21 the aileron is at the full down position, including the wires. Select the Left Aileron meshes Set the aileron at the full down position Select the meshes that need animation set the key 4- Now move the keyframe slider to 24 set the aileron to the neutral position select all the meshes that need animation set the key 5- Move the keyframe slider to 25 set the key. I do this since TK said that truly the neutral position should be frame 24.5 but I have not figure out how to do 1/2 frames 6- Move the keyframe slider to 30 set the aileron to full up position select all the meshes that need animation set the key Now for the right aileron you could do the same as above, then you declare the model to be reversed in the data ini, or start at ailerons full up at keyframe 21. I personally set the right aileron at full up at keyframe 21. Be sure to declare the AnimationID in the Data ini Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Alexander51 3 Posted January 29, 2007 Good Lord that's AWESOME so far Looking forward to flying an earlier Nieuport scout at some point, be it the Bebe, Nieuport 17 or this excellent type that you're busy knocking together <S> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted January 29, 2007 It is starting to look uber great!!! at some point we need to merge yours and mine data.ini file. Just give me a sout when you want the initial FM put in place. Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucas81 0 Posted January 31, 2007 Hi, my 1st post here, Very nice plane, congratulations! EmlD, can I suggest you something, please? Can you move the two small wires between the 2 forward fuselage struts to the right? they are not symmetical, because the Vickers gun was moved to the right. Also, are you going to build ammo feeder for Vickers? I know that it needs consideration, because it will reduce the visibility a little bit :) BTW: will you build stock N.24 and N.27, too? Regards! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted February 1, 2007 FM is starting to come along to a point where I need some history buff to step in... how did it manouver? Im guessing it was a tight turner with relativly poor vertical... but then again I could be wrong... please provide input on flyability and how you think it should stack up against the german planes we have... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firecage 1 Posted February 3, 2007 Well My view is a bit off center since I do only campaigns now. I would get the planes in game that were flying against the N24s historical wise. Then fly the N24 agaisnt those. Im guessing it's right around the D3 to D5a era maybe even D2 and PfalzD3. I would look at history to get time frames but use in game to tune the 24 vs its normal opponents. AS soon as possible I would love to get my hands on that puppy. I have a campaign ready to stick it in and we can try it out vs its german counterparts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted February 3, 2007 N24 for tests! Couldn't apply all textures...no time....sorry. I and TexMurphy will thank you for tests and advises.. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Tex about FM: "Still way to powerfull and stall not adjusted but fun to fly.... ---------------> EmlD: (i adjusted the [FlightControl] section) what I need to do is to increase some of the drag and decrease the prop efficiency to slow it down and to reduce the climb rate... its still about a min to fast up to 2000meters... Will tweak the stall characteristics some more.. Tex " ------------------------------------------------------------------ Please, feel free to post any suggestions. EmlD N24.rar Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yossarian1943 0 Posted February 4, 2007 Great 3D Model! IMHO it´s a masterpiece! After landing i noticed that the plane "jumps" weird. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+LloydNB 212 Posted February 4, 2007 I agree. Fantastic model. But i couldn't stand to see it completely naked so... I'm going to enjoy skinning this one!! LloydNB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+peter01 2 Posted February 4, 2007 very nice indeed - like the cockpit view of the aileron action! fm wise is great, it is fun flying. but you are after feedback, so heres my two cents worth (on hard flight mode have flown N24 as player aircraft couldn't against ai, he kept disappearing/reappearing): climb is good, these Nieups were noted for that. seems to stack up well to opposition, keep as is probably turns as it should, but then is too good against opposition, could reduce a bit roll could be a notch or two better, not much though the best speed (controlspeed ?) seems too high, it performed best at higher speeds and if I rolled at 70 mph it would make those stall sounds?, probably should be lower could reduce prop effeciecy for higher speeds, only higher speeds I'd say, maybe increase at lower speeds the sights don't line up with bullets, intentional? not sure mmmm, it is good well done on fm, know its very hard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Edward 11 Posted February 4, 2007 EmlD Fantastic job on the Nieuport 24 Beautiful model and I love the control animations. Seems a bit too fast but the thing flies so well you can really see why the Nieuport was Albert Ball's favorite Thanks so much for doing it. Edward Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted February 4, 2007 Speed is to high. It is the last thing I adjust as its sooo easy to adjust and get right compared to climb rate. Climb is still a tad high. I do agree tha the turn radious should be reduced a tiney bit. Not decided on the roll rate though. Roll rate inflation in flight models is something I really really really wana avoid. Excessive roll rate is a sure way to make the FMs uber and unrealistic. Just look at some of the WWII planes released for the TW games, it makes baby jesus wana cry when a plane like the P40 rolls 360 in less then 2 sec. What Im trying to decided is how it shold roll compared to the N28. It does have a smaller wing area so the resistance to roll should be smaller but then again it has much much much smaller ailerons which means that the roll force should be smaller. So my take is that N28 should roll faster. But as I said still undecided. AI flight wise no work what so ever has been done yet. Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+EmlD 3 Posted February 4, 2007 (edited) Oh...N24 disappears...sorry, forgot to edit the N24.ini....please here the solution: [LOD001] Filename=N24.lod Distance=120 ---------------> 2000 or higher.... You noticed...the wing texture is for Rigt and for Left the same file....becouse the skin i was makin, had no differences between the R and L ....but for skin makers, i will make 2 files for 2 sides.... ....and the Elevator skinning i will move to another texture file.....It is by Nose now, though it reflects like a metal nose...i will fix it. ...Now ailerons textures are to find in the upper left corner of the Nose texture --------> if you searched for that :) EmlD EDIT: the aiming solution (crossed wires) .... it mismatches the point direction, where the bullets fly to....it is cosed by the MG placement.... and i like it more...the cross-point do not hide the enemies plane... so i hope you will get easily accustomed with it.... it makes fun... Edited February 4, 2007 by EmlD Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+pcpilot 181 Posted February 4, 2007 (edited) This is a VERY nice model Emil and Tex. Been flying it for two days now. I agree the speed seems a bit high. But otherwise, seems close to what Id expect from a WW1 bi-plane. Emil, looking forward to the textures? Id like to try to skin this one. Edited February 4, 2007 by pcpilot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Firecage 1 Posted February 4, 2007 (edited) No big deal but I noticed the rondels and the tail insignia text were a bit off. I did the correction pretty easy just thought I would FYI you both so you can add it to the "to do list". Really love the idea that we will have some different versions of the N'port real soon. I was wanting to get the French side some planes of their own to work with in campaigns. the 24 feel real overpowered right now but the physics seem to feel good in flight. THANK YOU for setting the planes for HARD mode. I am very hopeful that all the planes will get a tune up to hard mode so its a more viable option in game. Edited February 4, 2007 by Firecage Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+peter01 2 Posted February 5, 2007 Hi Tex and EmID, Given no one has posted anything on performance, and it is hard to find for the N24...............dug this up from my RB3D days, no idea where I downloaded it from, though I remember at the time thought it was very useful, certainly for RB. The speed and climb rates are purportedly historical (maybe from A History of Aircraft Piston Engines, Hershel Smith), the rolls are as implemeted in RB (pretty accurate or good guess maybe - the guys modding for it are WWI aviation buffs). Anyway may help for comparison purposes to N28 etc, given lack of info.... take into account or discard as you see fit. Have included Nieup 11 and 17 for comparison, and for modders doing those as a start though theres more on these on the web then the N24. Figures are speed (kph), climb (height/time from takeoff probably), roll left (complete 360 degrees), roll right (complete 360 degrees): N11 167 2000m/8min30sec 6.60sec 7.38sec N17 165 2000m/6min50sec 5.75sec 5.57sec N24 176 1000m/2min40sec 6.04sec 5.93sec N28 206 5000ft/4min30sec 4.22sec 4.97sec Looking at other planes, german and entente, on climb (historical supposedly), N24 was an outstanding climber, N28 a good roller as well as everything else, and for example, Camel roll is 3.58/3.19. cheers PS EmID - it fixed the disappearing act, and I like the way the sights/guns are implemeted too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+TexMurphy 0 Posted February 5, 2007 peter thanks for that table will be very usefull!! Roll rate is hard though differes alot if you roll with or against the torque... Tex Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
