Nieuport 24

[+TexMurphy 0]

FM Update...

 

Since the latest posted version.

 

1. Pitch rate adjustments

2. Climb adjustments

3. Speed adjustments

4. Stall adjustments

5. Roll adjustments

6. [Flight Controll] adjustments

 

Personally Im quite happy with this version still the stall characteristics is an undecided and really really would like some more input on the manouvering.

 

Tex

N24_data.txt

[Firecage 1]

Hey Tex. I did a few test runs and since the AI is so weak I went with the idea of flying the N24 and Flying against the N24 myself to see how hard it was to avoid the N24 and try to gather you some info that might be helpful.

 

Take into consideration I was fighting the AI which is weak at best.

 

N24 Vs Alb D2 : The D2 had a very slight edge on speed to get away. The N24 out turned , outclimbed and just ate the D2 up pretty easy.

 

N24 Vs Alb D3 : The D3 did have the edge pretty well on Speed and could out run the N24. THe N24 in a furball stil out classed the D3 pretty easy.

 

N24 Vs the Alb D5a : This one was closer match than any alb model so far. The D5 seems to have better climb rate than some of the other Albs. Had better speed and could hang in there against the N24 in a dogfight.

N24 Vs the D7 : Wow nice fight, if anyone was behind the stick of the D7 besides the weak AI the N24 would probably be toast. THe D7 had the N24 on speed and turn most of the time and firepower as well.

 

 

Next run I did were same planes but I took the germans side against the N24...

 

D2 vs N24 : The D2 was at a loss to get a good fix on the N24. THe N24 was way more nimble and could turn circles inside the Alb D2. The D2 did seem to have an advantage on speed (barely) and did Loop a bit faster than the AI did in the N24. Turn and roll both belonged to the N24 by good lead.

 

D3 vs N24 : hmmm good close fight VS the AI. I still think a human in the N24 would have given me trouble. THe D3 had a good edge on the N24 going into vertical loops for position. Problem was the N24 would be able to get out of gun sight with it being so nimble. Alot of my shots were flick shots and very sharp angle of attacks.

 

DIII (ateam) vs N24 : Well this was a bit different. It seems like the N24 was faster than the DIII A team version. Again the Alb seems to be a winner at vertical loops but the N24 is just so nimble he was nver in my sights for more than a few bursts if that.

 

D7 vs N24 : pretty even fight, the N24 had a slight adv on turns but ran outta E faster doing it and the D7 had the over all edge. If you go vert and climb or loop and get position it was hard for the N24 to get away at all.

 

Not sure if this helps you but I help it gives a small picture of how the planes do vs each other. IF we had 2 humans fighting it out I am sure the differences would show up much better. Over all I think one of the weaknesses ALL neuiports had was tender lower wings and fragile wings over all. Since im not sure if we can model that yet in FE Its going to be hard for the NXX to not seem a bit overpowered. SInce It can pull such a hard turn with no adverse effects then it will be hard for any plane ot match its turn radius.

 

Great job on the plane just not sure how to suggest a way to fix. THe planes REALLY need to have wing stress and such to keep things in check.

[+TexMurphy 0]

Good feedback!!

 

One thing to remember is that faster planes tend to do better when the numbers go up while manouverable planes are better suited for small engagements (1v1, 2v2).

 

I can see reducing the turn rate (pitch rate) a bit further. But what I really wana try is some ideas I have about lowering its high speed handling. One of the reasons I do think this is the good idea is that the lower wings had tendency to give unexpected behaviour in dives. Dive == high speed.

 

Basicly tightning the envelope within which the plane performs well. I would like for that effect to start chipping in at speeds just around max speed (105 or possibly 110 mph) and then increase with speed.

 

Ill see what I can do.

 

Tex

[Firecage 1]

One thing I should have mentioned. Every run was done in a 12 vs 12 furball. I wanted to see alot of things the AI was trying and gave me a lot of targets to chase around.

[+TexMurphy 0]

I want you guys to try this out....

 

Ive added a new effect where your pitch authority fades over speed increase... so you have very tight manouvering at low speed but you loose it as your speed increases... it could be a way to simulate the bad lower wing..

 

Its not really ballanced but it gives you an idea what can be done..

 

Tex

N24_data.txt

[+TexMurphy 0]

A bit more tuned version of the above...

 

Full compression is at really high speed 180mph+... you can pull out of 160mphish dives...

 

From about 90mph the High yoyos start to be very rewarding as you get much tighter compared to highspeed turns...

 

Overall still very manouverable but now imho a bit harder to fly

 

Still feels a bit strange with this new effect but I think its because the ailerons and rudder arnt affected so their effect doesnt fade... it will in next version...

 

Tex

N24_data.txt

[+peter01 2]

I'll try this one out..

 

I did fly the first, and liked it, though crashed a few times. It was good in that you started thinking about the aircrafts limits. Perhaps a little more warning, which is what you are probably doing with the new fm. Flies really well at lower speeds, better than before, not too good, but just right.

 

BTW, think you are realy on to something here, certainly a creative approach not tried before, that may indeed work well for those that like it more challenging...

[+TexMurphy 0]

To underline what peter said...

 

This does increase the need to get to know the envelope of the plane and throttle management becomes a necessary skill.

 

What it doesnt do very well is to simulate the intended effect of lower wing problems. The wings had a tendency to rotate in dives. I still want a way to do that but at least looking for a way has given me an intresesting ballancing tool.

 

Tex

[+peter01 2]

Hi Tex,

 

They are both good - have the right feel for me, ie, the plane seems capable and especially nimble, but you don't feel smug say like flying the current Se5a, you know you have your work cut out for you.

 

Of the two models I like the first - its dangerous!!!!! You do have to use the throttle as you said, first time I really have had to do so in this sim, and always be aware of your speed. You then tend to prefer turning/swirling/climbing actions to avoid high speeds. Once or twice to stop going into a terminal dive I had to throttle right down and pull up, and the AI I was attacking then turned the tables and jumped me. Good I think.

 

Need some other input, as the second is good as well, and maybe others would like this or a model somewhere in between.

 

Cheers, doing a great job.

Edited February 10, 2007 by peter01

[+peter01 2]

Bump

 

All Quiet on the N24 Front.....??

[+TexMurphy 0]

doing last few tuneings while EmlD is sorting out some issues...

 

The tuneings Im doing is to get it ballanced with the N28 and N11...

 

Tex

[Firecage 1]

Hey Tex, man I know you just need one more thing on your plate but ......

 

Would it be possible to get a complete skin layout so I can start working on skins for the 24?

 

Reach me through CA msg if ya want or here.

[+TexMurphy 0]

Dont ask me about the art.. ;)

 

Seriously I dont have Max and all I know about moding is stats in files that end with .ini. ;)

 

While I could sit down and learn Max enough to create a skin layout which Im sure I could do over a weekend... Im not gonna bother because in a week Im goning to FERNIE!!!!!!! ;)

 

Seriously my time is running short before my vacation and I wana get the 11 and 24 out the door before I leave for my 3 week sking vacation. So while I could learn it and make sure it gets done I just dont have the time before the vacation so you´ll have to wait till EmlD´s computer is back in action.

 

Tex

[Firecage 1]

No problem, EmlD should be around soon and I can hit him up for it when he is online again.

[+EmlD 3]

Hi, i know N24 3d model should be done already...but my computer died a week ago...motherboard burned out...

I bought a new one, payed for it, its still not shipped, promised to arrive tomorrow here... So the production stocks coz of PC damage :)

 

I try to apply all textures on this weekend.... if motherboard comes tomorrow....:)

 

EmlD

[+EmlD 3]

Hi, here updates.

 

The 3rd and 4th LOD maybe, Damage nodes with textures have to be done..

 

Who wonts a 1024*1024 PSD (7mb RAR) templates, page me.. send me your email address.

 

EmlD

N24.rar

[+peter01 2]

EmID, thanks so much for this!

 

Truly truly wonderful in every way - love the model, the skin is superb (nicely weathered, and first white plane, yipee), FM is spot on IMO and flies wonderfully in Hard FM.

 

Cheers.....wish I could buy you guys a few beers....

 

PS I'll email you re PSD

[Edward 11]

EmlD

 

Fantastic work on the Nieuport 24 It looks beautiful, and the flight model seems great too. Thanks Tex

 

Edward

Edited February 19, 2007 by Edward

[Gr.Viper 131]

Looks very pretty And the animations are great

 

Flies a bit funny though... and loses altitude too quickly. Had a flight of them engage a flight of stock Albs and this was a pretty common picture

[Recon3 0]

Very nice job.

I spent an hour looking over the 3D model and bmps and from what I've discovered, for the purpose of skinning anyways, is this 3D model is one of the best mapped addon planes in FE, so far;

Top/bottom/sides of fuse are mapped. Wings are not mirrored. No stretching of textures or 'post-mapped modelling' as far as I can tell.

You know your stuff.

 

cheers, Recon3

[+TexMurphy 0]

Viper

 

What I think your experienceing is the fact that you loose elevator controll at high speeds this results in your dives taking longer to pull up. If you are doing a vertical manouver you need to controll your speed on the exit. Its easy to just have your throttle cranked to max to get through the manouver and then leave it there as you exit.

 

Generally to get the most out of the N24 (, N11 and N17) you need to manage your throttle. Your turn rate is much much better at 75-80ish mph then at 100mph.

 

This does make E management harder but on the other hand E friendly manouvers like High YoYo´s very rewarding.

 

Tex

[Recon3 0]

And forgot to mention....she's a pleasure to fly.

[+TexMurphy 0]

OK here is a FM update.

 

This one adds some caracteristics that got lost when we removed the VerticalTail section out of the ini file.

 

Basicly its less side slippery.

 

Tex

N24_data.txt

[+Tailspin 3]

OK here is a FM update.

 

This one adds some caracteristics that got lost when we removed the VerticalTail section out of the ini file.

 

Basicly its less side slippery.

 

Tex

 

How about that. I had just taken the N24 up for a test run (been busy with RL things and hadn't been flying much lately) and was going to post that I thought the plane was a little too "loose" and that the nose tended to "float". I'll have to try out the new .ini now. Great work guys.

[+Tailspin 3]

Ok, the new FM is much better, IMHO, in directional stability. I added more rudder authority (Cndc...I split the difference between the old values and new) and it seems handle pretty good. I like it!

 

PS...Almost forgot. My tests were done with the FM set on Normal. Since the majority of planes aren't "tuned" for Hard, I rarely fly that way anymore. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the Neiuports on Normal though. They fly just fine.