Something is tragically wrong

[Twobob 0]

I only just started looking at FE, I have installed it from the disc, updated it with the latest patch, and I don't get it....

 

- The ground textures look like a really cheap polyester patchwork quilt.

- The flight dynamics are like flight sims used to be 10 years ago on atari.

- The options for views are just weird,, like you pan about and then it just returns by itself.

- I tried a single mission but seems all it does is keep directing me to way point after way point, I must admit after waypoint 4 I got bored and exited, is there an objective other then to point (I say point as it can barely be called flying) in a direction of a white pointer?

 

- Can this "game" be used in a window mode?

 

Is there terrain mesh avaliable?

Are there more realistic ground textures?

Is there a "newbies" FAQ's?

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Firstly, I have to ask this, you're played the SF series before, yeah? Is this based on installing it and playing straight away? Have you tried re-installing? Could just be a bad install or a bad patching. I had something similar after re-installing SFG a while ago.

 

As for the rest:

Visuals:

Have you changed any of the settings in the options? Are you running high quality visuals or low? Have you customised any of the visual options under the \options\graphics tab?

As for views, sounds like you're using the F5 chase view, this would explain why it resets to the tail position after a few seconds. Try the F6 freelook mode.

Flight:

Again, have you changed any of the options in the options\gameplay tab? The realism and elements of the flight model are scalable. If you're playing on easy, then it would seem pretty unrealistic, like the Atari sims... wait, did Atari make sims for the Jaguar??

Sortie:

If you're getting bored flying from point to point, I'm guessing you're not using time compression or the "trip skip" functions. I don't recall what "trip skip" is called in the SF series, but for the other games, it's default is alt+N. This takes you from whereever you are, straight into action (so long as you're in flight and high enough). These options should be available in the controls customisation screen.

 

Appologies if I sound condescending, I need a little more detail. I mean, if it's just a case of coming from pretty looking sims like Ace Combat to the SF series... well, there's nothing we can do about that... yet.

[BUFF 8]

as has been said it sounds like you need to do some option customising.

Personally, I've never found the view system odd but I don't know how you have yours setup.

 

This developer's games are designed to be not only playable at decent rates on todays PCs but also those of a couple of years ago. As PCs move on so the game engine is updated through patches to take advantage of improvements.

This does mean that there are going to be diferences between them & e.g. LOMAC, FSX, etc. which are usually designed for the hardware that will be out a year after the game .... :tomato2:

 

As for terrain addons detc. did you look in the downloads section here at Combat Ace?

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...s&showcat=2

& we are only 1 of several such sites ...

 

Similarly you may find http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showforum=99 useful.

[Twobob 0]

SayWhat?!, BUFF,

 

Firstly thankyou both for the reply/s,

 

SayWhat?!.....

Firstly, I have to ask this, you're played the SF series before, yeah?

NO this is my first experience with FE or titles in this series, and just to display my ignorance further... What is "SF Series"

 

Have you changed any of the settings in the options? Are you running high quality visuals or low? Have you customised any of the visual options under the \options\graphics tab?

The only option I have adjusted from default are to turn up the visual/graphics to high as my system can handle these well.

 

have you changed any of the options in the options\gameplay tab? The realism and elements of the flight model are scalable.

Left all settings as default install.

 

If you're getting bored flying from point to point, I'm guessing you're not using time compression or the "trip skip" functions.

TY, I'll look into this, although my initial experience was not just the trip to the waypoint but, that when I arrived the only objective seemed to be to travel to the next waypoint.

 

Appologies if I sound condescending,

No appologies nessessary, at least not from you. After reviewing my intitial post I feel it is I that was rather abrupt or negative.

 

BUFF.....

as has been said it sounds like you need to do some option customising.

As stated above, I have made no adjustments/customizations other then the graphic setting to high. I always like to explore and gain an understanding of things "out of the box" first before modifying.

 

This developer's games are designed to be not only playable at decent rates on todays PCs but also those of a couple of years ago. As PCs move on so the game engine is updated through patches to take advantage of improvements.

This does mean that there are going to be diferences between them & e.g. LOMAC, FSX, etc. which are usually designed for the hardware that will be out a year after the game ....

This is without doubt a contributing factor to my initial disapointment, I am an avid MSFS user.

 

Thanks for the reference links, I'm probably not ready to start adding things at this stage as I said I would like to further understand and view the game "out of the box" before modification but the second one especially may be a assistance.

[+Fates 63]

Can you post some system specs? Then...take a look at the images in the gallery for some comparison.

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?autom...q=sc&cat=48

[BUFF 8]

NO this is my first experience with FE or titles in this series, and just to display my ignorance further... What is "SF Series"

SF Series is the Strike Fighter series from Third Wire.

Strike Fighters/Wings over Vietnam/Wings over Europe & First Eagles are all based on the same game engine so have a lot of commonality.

 

The biggest complaint gfx wise with them from people usually is the terrain textures - this is probably a result of a combination of the aforementioned wish to keeep the games playable on modest hardware & the fact that Third Wire is a very small studio with a limited budget.

In fact First Eagles was entirely self-funded with no developer/publisher advance etc..

 

However, there are many upgraded (& indeed new) terrains available for the series by community modders when you feel ready to try them.

[dhasdell 0]

If you are used to MS flight sims and the terrain is top of your complaints list, then you should make a start by downloading alternatives here at Combat Ace in the Thirdwire downloads section. There are higher detail tiles and winter sets, and some will look familiar to you as I think they've been based on the MS ones.

Edited March 15, 2007 by dhasdell

[dhasdell 0]

Hello MrC!

 

And of course as well as the summer one from Edward which you link to, he's done this winter one.

 

[JediMaster 451]

At the very least, this thread has given us some insight into the reactions of a "brand new user" with no prior expectations or knowledge. While there's not too much that can likely be done on TK's side to improve that initial "OOB experience" without changes in funding/manning, it does indicate that we must realize someone's expectations, based on the established franchises like MSFS, might be a little higher than the stock game can meet.

Fortunately, Twobob has not rejected the game out of hand but took the time to look into it and see what he can do to improve things.

[promethius 0]

Yes, I agree. As stated before the game is developed for low to high end Hardware. Who knows, Twobob may want to do some modding on the game at some point. I find SF series to be the most flexiable and easy to understand, which is good to me being a newbie Modder :). Great community in contributing to these Series.

[Alexander51 3]

Hey ya dhasdell! Yes that's a great looking terrain indeed. I was using another

winterized terrain mod as it helped with raising the FPS. I was able to turn

on the trees in fact, but realized that all I had to do was set horizon to NEAR

 

Craigster

[Guest IndioBlack]

At the very least, this thread has given us some insight into the reactions of a "brand new user" with no prior expectations or knowledge. While there's not too much that can likely be done on TK's side to improve that initial "OOB experience" without changes in funding/manning, it does indicate that we must realize someone's expectations, based on the established franchises like MSFS, might be a little higher than the stock game can meet.

Fortunately, Twobob has not rejected the game out of hand but took the time to look into it and see what he can do to improve things.

 

When I was a brand new user with SF, my first reaction was how pretty all the aircraft and scenery looked. I was impressed at how it didn't kill my computer, and I had some fun shooting down enemy planes without much trouble. Compared to the crushingly dull combat-less MSFS, it was awesome.

It was some time after that initial fun period, when I began to realise that the game was repetitive and had no depth. Then I started to notice how dumb the AI was, and how some of the clever little details that were so common in other flight Sims were not present here.

I gave up and went to fly other Sims, but what kept bringing me back was the third-party aircraft. Someone would suddenly come up with an F-14, and I'd just have to go fly it. And then I'd go through the whole fun cycle again, until I reached the dumb AI, lack of depth moment, and pack it all in again. Until the F-23 came out ...

 

First Eagles was definitely out of the same stable. But what it has achieved with subsequent patches in a short space of time, and with some interesting add-ons like the active battlefield, is a greater replayability factor than I believe is at the core of the rest of the SF series. That really has surprised me.

But I personally don't believe that a whole host of new aircraft is going to cover the cracks and keep this one going. Maybe I don't know enough about the era, but a Nieuport looks pretty much the same as a Spad or a Fokker to me, and whether they are painted green or brown doesn't matter to me at all. It doesn't quite seem the same as the difference between a Harrier and a Tomcat for instance.

 

What I think could keep this game going is new scenery with bridges and railways to give a more interesting and larger range of targets (well done Vogesen there with the bridges) ; and some concessions to greater immersion with accessible medal screens, maybe some named Ace pilots, and of course, proper engine start and stop sequences.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the other lily-gilding stuff, because there is much to admire, but the heart of the game is what really needs the attention to maintain its long-term replayability.

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

Twobob, let us know how you go. Any troubles, make a post here somewhere and we'll help you out. That goes for anyone, new or old. Don't be backward about coming forward. Until you have a play around with the settings, or try installing new aircraft, or terrain, or any other type of mods, it can seem a little daunting or annoying. But it's a good payoff once you know how to tweak this sim and can then tune it you your own tastes.

 

First Eagles was definitely out of the same stable. But what it has achieved with subsequent patches in a short space of time, and with some interesting add-ons like the active battlefield, is a greater replayability factor than I believe is at the core of the rest of the SF series. That really has surprised me...

 

...What I think could keep this game going is new scenery with bridges and railways to give a more interesting and larger range of targets (well done Vogesen there with the bridges) ; and some concessions to greater immersion with accessible medal screens, maybe some named Ace pilots, and of course, proper engine start and stop sequences...

 

I agree in that I'd like to see more happening on the ground too. Although I haven't seen the active battlefield in FE (I don't own it, not really a fan of WWI sims) I remember what it was like in Apache Vs Havoc and it was a total blast having a shootout somewhere, RTBing to re-arm/re-fuel and then having to play catch up with the armoured column you were supporting while they push forward. While I do like the current form of ground units, it is a little static which I think can kill replay.

Also, what's the word on buildings? Is it possible to add building sat this size (maybe not this dense since it'll chew up the frame rates):

One of the things I've always dug about the Ace Combat series was being able to fly breakneck speeds, head height whilst threading my ride through a city.

 

Also, one element of the first Red Baron game I like was having an Ace challange you and you having the option of specifically suiting up or not. It could work well (in terms of immersion) for FE...

[+Tailspin 3]

From TK himself:

 

The next WWI title will have (in addition to 4 new player planes, 3 AI planes, new map, and campaigns) new features and improvements that are specifically required by that title (such as better rotary engine model - blip switch and synchronized maghineguns that have variable fire rate based on engine rpm; "ace" personality in campaign with individual decals and skins -so you can meet the Red Baron in the sky Wink , etc. etc. )

 

In campaign .ini file, under each squadron, you'll be able to (optionally) list and specify pilot's name, starting stats, aircraft skin, aircraft id for decals, etc. And their stats are kept track of, so as they fly missions and get kills, they'll be recorded. And when you meet them in mission, they'll have slight bonus so they're better pilots and harder to shoot down. And at the end of mission, encounter with them will be noted in debrief.

 

Haven't decided how far we want to go on displaying their stats, tho... We might have "kill board" showing top aces of the war (either just friendly aces, or may even include enemy aces?)

 

And we haven't decided if "normal" AI pilots would be promoted to these "ace" characters if they get enough kills. This would result in ahistorical ace names, but again, it might make for more interesting games Smile

 

Just some of the fun stuff we've been messing with Wink

 

As for the game's heart and soul (any of the series for that matter)...as I've always said, I often wonder if I have the same game as some of you?

[Guest IndioBlack]

Also, one element of the first Red Baron game I like was having an Ace challange you and you having the option of specifically suiting up or not. It could work well (in terms of immersion) for FE...

 

I believe the Ace-challenge feature was in KNIGHTS OF THE SKY too. If not that one, then certainly another WWI Sim other than RED BARON, which I never owned. They also had news-from-the-front updates to keep you aware of historic events around the time you were flying. Medal screens are nice. I always liked the bar-scene in F-19: It was just a simple animated cartoon showing a pilot in the bar. If you had a good mission, you were surrounded by other pilots cheering and raising glasses. If you had a bad mission, you were stood alone, crying into your beer.

There was a version of that in iF-22, where you had an animation of your F-22 taxying up to the hangar, and then the hangar-door opening. That was a big moment, because the measure of how good you were, was whether a bunch of people were revealed all cheering you, or whether there was just one flight engineer stood alone, with his hands in his pockets.

Now those were quite basic animations that weren't on for long, but gave you a smile at mission-end,and helped with the immersion factor. However, it did start to get a bit silly with cut-scene briefings in US NAVY FIGHTERS and JETFIGHTER, and when Eurofighter Typhoon insisted on setting you in a 3D pool-room where you had to wait for a mission to crop up before you could get into an aircraft, the whole point of the Flight Simulation seemed to have been lost.

 

So when it comes down to it, the most important factor is the Combat Flight experience, but if there's the possibility of adding some immersive touches, then that's the icing on the cake.