Multiple Flap Settings

[Guest Tazkiller]

Is it possible to have more than just (3) flap settings for the aircraft?

 

Flaps Full Up; Flaps to Takeoff; Flaps Full Down; is IMHO a little unrealistic.

 

I have looked in the DATA ini files on a/c. it seems like it would be possible.

 

Especially in heavy aircraft such as a B-52. Or are we crossing the line again between a game and a flight simulation?

 

Comments?

[+EricJ 4,011]

Why would you need more than three setting anyways?

[serverandenforcer 33]

Why would you need more than three setting anyways?

 

 

Well, if you would be doing combat landings, you would be comming in pretty hot so you wont get shot down by hodgies with RPGs hidding out a klick or two from the base perimeter (and I know what that is like - got shot at by ground based rockets in a C-130 comming into Baghdad Airport on my way back home from Kirkuk). So a full flap setting would provide too much lift for your approach. Same with take-offs 'cause you don't want to instantly go high in the sky straight off the runway at a slow speed, making yourself a really easy target for insurgents on the ground with RPGs (do know how embarassing that would be for a fighter pilot to get shot down by RPGs - over his home turf?) You want to be able to get enough lift to get off the ground and clear the watch towers at the end of the runway (where the perimeter fence is at - I've been in those towers BTW) and still maintain a fast speed. Then you point the craft up into that deep blue beauty at close to 300 knots as you pass over the base perimeter. BTW, fighter jets don't use flaps for combat takeoffs - well atleast not to my knowledge. Now when taking off and landing in the states or in a safe zone, you won't be doing combat take-offs or landings. You'll be doing those things nice and safely. So then you will be using more flaps to get the job done, cause you're not in a hurry to get anywhere. And you know how hard the military is trying to conserver on jet fuel consumption.

[+EricJ 4,011]

Okay, slow down and re-explain it in a more slower, concise format, please.

[serverandenforcer 33]

Okay, slow down and re-explain it in a more slower, concise format, please.

 

O.K. Combat landings and take-offs: A combat landing is when the aircraft lands at a really fast speed to get on the ground A.S.A.P. Why? Because they are landing in a combat zone (for example, Allied airbases in Iraq). In the theater of operation, there are always insurgents or "bad guys" nearby your airbase, waiting to get a good shot off with their RPGs to take out an aircraft. Because of this threat, aircraft have to land at a high rate of speed. If you have the flaps down too much, you'll be getting more lift than what you want, making it difficult to land fast. Of course you will also start to slow down as well - probably slower than what you would be comfortable with because you are now a nice juicy target for the insurgents. Same thing applies with combat take-offs. You want to stay low as much as possible until you have reached a fast enough speed so that when you pull up, you zooooooom up into the sky like a freaken rocket - hence forth making it very difficult for an insurgent to fire a rocket and hit you with it. When I was over in Iraq, I've seen C-17s and C-130s do this all the time, they get about 100 - 200 ft off the ground (A.S.A.P.) and then stay level as long as possible. Usually at the end of the runways (which was also at the perimeter of the base) they pull up really hard gaing a couple thousand feet very quickly. Now talk about a deafening sound when those suckers fly over you!

 

Now, in a traditional take-off and landing, you won't be taking off and landing that way. Everything is by the book, super safety stuff. So you will be taking off with enough flaps to get you airborn and to maintain a decent rate of climb. Same thing with landing in the traditional/non combat way. Your approach will be nice and slow (obviously above stall speed - but just enough to give you plenty of time to make minor corrections to have that perfect landing). So then, you will have your flaps completely down (actually, it's a gradual procession [putting your flaps down] to maintain a certain rate of decent, speed, and level flight on your stages of approach). This is how I do it (in a very rough and basic sketch). 5 miles to the runway, flaps are at 25%, airspeed is 250 knots, maintain rate of decent of 500 ft per minute. 3 miles to the runway, flaps at 50%, airspeed 200 knots, maintain rate of decent of 500 ft per minute, and I start lowering the landing gear. 1 1/2 miles to the runway, flaps at 75%, airspeed at 160 knots, maintain rate of decent of 500 ft per minute. 3/4 of a mile to the runway, flaps at 100%, airspeed at 140 knots, speed brake deployed, and fluctuating the power a bit to keep airspeed up with a rate of decent of 500 ft per minute. I usually fly the nose pointed at the runway, untill I start passing over it. Then I flare it a bit and drop all power, which gives me that nice feather like touch down. Apply wheel brakes untill you're at a safe and slow speed for taxing.

 

Combat landings: this is how I do it: At 5 miles to the runway, maintain altitude under 500 ft / above 100 ft, come in at 200 - 250 knots, flaps at 50% all the way to about 1/4 of a mile from the runway. Then I drop the power, lower the gear, keep my nose up, and deploy a couple flares and chaff for counter measures against any possible launches against my aircraft. I should be doing about 170 knots once I pass over the runway (depending on aircraft, speed may be higher or lower). I then deploy the speed brakes, slowing to about 140 knots, hit the runway with a purpouse and plow through those wheel brakes (if this was a transport, I'd be using full thrust reversers as well).

 

Combat take-offs (for a fighter jet): Full burners. At 130 knots, pull up to above 100 ft, but not over 200 ft. At 260 knots, you should be passing over the other end of the runway (and the base perimeter). At this point you pull up hard to get at least 1,000 ft, if not 2,000 ft, and level off.

 

In the real world C-130, on my way back from Kirkuk, Iraq, we were going to land at Baghdad. At around 10,000 ft, we had a rocket fired at us and we nose dived to about 500 ft (I had a nice window seat to see all the action ) and we maintained that altitude all the way to the base.

Edited March 24, 2007 by serverandenforcer

[serverandenforcer 33]

It was a manpad that fired at us. Totally forgot what those things were called.

[+EricJ 4,011]

SA-7. But I've done a couple combat landings in a C-130 so I know what the experience is like though we didnt get shot at (Balad). But I've been simming for.... 8 to 10 years and I've done quite a bit, so there's still no concise answer why I would need any more flap settings than what's already what's around. I think that's my point. I figure a "combat" flap setting is a relic of WWII and not something thats applicable to jets and I'm wondering how much is enough before you start re-inventing the wheel, in which case doesn't need to happen.

[serverandenforcer 33]

I'm just trying to help explain a possibe reason why Tazkiller would want multiple flap settings. It would add some kind of realism to the sim - in regards to aircraft operations, but that's if only fighter jets have multilple flap settings. I know large aircraft do (they have lots of settings - like big rigs with lots of gears to shift to in a transmission), and small civilian aircraft as well.

[+EricJ 4,011]

Oh I know, but the main problem is that despite that, I don't know jack about multiple flap settings. I mean you've explained some valid stuff don't get me wrong, but I just didnt' actually know, so thanks, now I understand a bit better

[JediMaster 451]

Certain planes have multi flap settings, other do not. The F-15, for example, has only 2--up and down. The A-10 has 3, with an intermediate setting. I think the Su-25 has 4, with a "combat" flap setting of like 10 degrees as well as half and full. The F-16 has none, they're auto.

So, if there was some way of doing it like that for each plane, fine, but you don't want a blanket setting.

[Fubar512 1,350]

The SF series currently has only three flap settings coded into it:

 

Full Up

Intermediate (Takeoff)

Full Down (Landing)