Hawk Missile battery?

[Hawk MMS 0]

Nick, the only problem I can envision with that setup (in-game) is that it doesn't provide 360-degree coverage. You see, to prevent a battery from salvoing off all its birds at once, we've had to place a limit on the yaw axis of the Hawk launcher. So, if you mirror that deployment on the other side of the battery, everything would be fine.

 

Again, it's a game-limitation that needs to be overcome by placement.

 

 

Hawk engagement parameters required a target to have a possitive range rate toward the site. it could not be going away from the battery. We set up a PTL to orientate the direction of the battery towards the Primary Threat Line (anticipated direction the threat will be coming from).

[Fubar512 1,350]

Hawk engagement parameters required a target to have a possitive range rate toward the site. it could not be going away from the battery. We set up a PTL to orientate the direction of the battery towards the Primary Threat Line (anticipated direction the threat will be coming from).

 

Again, that's something that's out of the qusetion with the present game engine.

[Hawk MMS 0]

Again, that's something that's out of the qusetion with the present game engine.

 

 

I understand that. Just dropping some real world (i guess past world) info

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Nick, the only problem I can envision with that setup (in-game) is that it doesn't provide 360-degree coverage. You see, to prevent a battery from salvoing off all its birds at once, we've had to place a limit on the yaw axis of the Hawk launcher. So, if you mirror that deployment on the other side of the battery, everything would be fine. Again, it's a game-limitation that needs to be overcome by placement.

 

Actually the rotation limit is accurate - we would never fire over the battery anyway. This setup covers about 270 degrees because of the orientation of the launchers. I can spread the fan out - in effect creating 360 coverage, although I'm not sure the game limitation of not covering 360 degrees is a bad thing. In real life, if an attack came from the "rear" we would be in trouble. USMC Hawker's comment on the PTL is valid - the PTL of this layout is 90 degrees. We could have other standard layouts for 45 and 135 degrees for example.

 

Of course the answer to the real life problem was to create defense in depth where batteries would cover others rear areas. No different than having a wingman really. This was done at the battalion and brigade level, so the "belt" was fairly thick. Behind that were the Nike Hercs - later Patriots, to further cover our rear (while covering the theatre assets)

 

Hope to get some work done on placing these HAWK batteries on the map this weekend.

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Status report: I've managed to place 33 HAWK batteries so far on the GermanyCE map from Kiel to Munich. There were over 100 batteries, but given the scaled down map, and to simulate batteries not in operation (relocating or equipment down) I am thinking around 60-70 total. Have to do the 2nd layer of the belt, then do the 3rd later of units covering the theatre assets in the rear.

 

Very tedious and slow work! My hats off to those who have populated detailed campaign maps with objects.

[Wrench 9,801]

Told you it PITA!!!!

 

Great job, Nick...can't wait to see what you got when it's done!

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

[Hawk MMS 0]

Told you it PITA!!!!

 

Great job, Nick...can't wait to see what you got when it's done!

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

 

 

I really need to learn how to tweak this game. I have downloaded almost every piece of bad a$$ equipment/mod/terrain/skin you guys have done. I am impressed. Sounds like farsi to me though when you guys get technical. Guess I should load another WOE up, So i can screw it up i think the stuff that has been done is a blast and am very appreciative of this board (others) and all the modders that work on it. I love Hawk and GBAD so much that I want to do what you guys are doing to it. i say this now but, alas I will get home and have to put a new kitchen floor in, caulk the baseboards, clean the cat box, mow the lawn and then come back to work

 

So, until I move I am only sneaking a mod here and there from the board and playing in the shadows (that is not what it sounds like, I have to leave the light in the office or else).

Edited April 29, 2007 by USMC Hawker

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

Hawker::

Guess I should load another WOE up, So i can screw it up crazy.gif

No

 

Copy and Paste the game folder as many times as you like, wherever you like, re-name them whoever you like.

 

But, I do suggest installing a fresh virgin un-Patched, un-Modded, game install. Keep it unPatched, unModded, and unUsed until you may need it. You will never again have to install from CD.

 

My working StrikeFighter game folder is simply...D:\SF ...hehe Most people still have their game in...

 

C:\Programs\.....etc\ThudWire\etc...\.. \StrikeFighter\etc...\etc...\endless subfolders\etc...confused yet? ... all games seem to do this.

 

TK knows his sims need seperate installs for all the 3rd Party moddatons, so he keeps it easy to make backups.

[Pap 0]

Actually the rotation limit is accurate - we would never fire over the battery anyway. This setup covers about 270 degrees because of the orientation of the launchers. I can spread the fan out - in effect creating 360 coverage, although I'm not sure the game limitation of not covering 360 degrees is a bad thing. In real life, if an attack came from the "rear" we would be in trouble. USMC Hawker's comment on the PTL is valid - the PTL of this layout is 90 degrees. We could have other standard layouts for 45 and 135 degrees for example.

 

My friend Nicholas

Hawk can fire 360.You can have missiles fired over the Btry as soon as you deal correctly

the azimuth cut out clips and the min.elevation of the lunchers (real life).

Also the sector of interest could be 360.Of course in Germany with 100 Hawk Btrys you have

to deal with corridors of responsibility of 20km wide or less.In my country (Greece) we deal with

360 sectors...

 

Best regards

Pap

(TCO at 80's)

Edited May 2, 2007 by Pap

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Also the sector of interest could be 360.Of course in Germany with 100 Hawk Btrys you have

to deal with corridors of responsibility of 20km wide or less.In my country (Greece) we deal with

360 sectors...

 

Hi Pap - better you firing over your own head than me!

 

3 HAWK guys in one folder - this is getting to be a regular Air Defense hangout. Now if only we could some folks from Europe who were on "the other side" to help fill in the gaps....

 

Have placed another dozen HAWK batteries, but am running into odd stuff with some units missing a firing section. At least the problem is dividing the unit realistically - I just don't know where the other half is! And all I'm doing is cutting and pasting. weird...

 

WpnSgt has graciously permitted me to use his Nike-Herc objects from the OTC campaign, so I will be adding them in too. Pasko has also ok'ed me using his objects, so this may eventually get a bit more thorough than I though.

 

I've done some testing with just the forward HAWK belt in and it is "interesting" to say the least if you are a Red Flyer

 

In case anyone knows - is there a Bofors 40mm L60 or L70 object available? They are missing too from the NATO setup. As are Redeyes, which I can manage to make using the SA-7.

[Wrench 9,801]

40mm Bofors is in the WW2 game objects (pretty sure it's with edwards ww2 euro terrain). If not, maybe I can ask him if I can release a WW2 AAA set (including the Brit 3.7in, 88mm Flak 36 - although some might be either Polaks or Pasko; maybe even Geo!...don't remember).

 

For the US, ther's a 90mm AAA stand in (based off the 3rd Wire KS12 over on my site). You're welcome to use it

 

When I get home tonight, I'll post the Nike batter set up I used in the screenshots. Not perfect, mind you, but something to start with. The only thing needed in the 'ground plate' from the Factory Place..

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Thanks, Wrench. I'll check out the WW2 stuff. Appreciate the offer on the Nike setup. And I will use your 90mm gun - eventually. I believe they were phased out in the late 50s. But since I'm contemplating campaigns 1948-56 that will be useful.

 

Wondering if I can create new standard object types (like AAA, SAMRadar, etc) in the TYPES.ini which the program will do it's random type placement thing. I recall reading somewhere that the are some issues with this. I'd like to create new ones for MANPADS and Heavy AAA.

[+Crusader 2,084]

Stinger HERE Edited May 2, 2007 by Crusader

[Wrench 9,801]

As far as I've been able to tell, as long as the object is listed in the types ini, and the callout in the targets ini matches, the object (and here's the operative word...) should show.

 

Here's the generic Nike battery I built; I've taken the Target number out, so you can add it to your own:

 

[TargetArea337]

Name=Zweibruken NIKE Battery

Position=293750.00,321843.00

Radius=500.000

ActiveYear=1954

Location=1

Alignment=Friendly

Target[001].Type=NIKE_HIPAR

Target[001].Offset=-160,250

Target[001].Heading=90

Target[002].Type=NIKE_L

Target[002].Offset=280,-320

Target[002].Heading=90

Target[003].Type=NIKE_L

Target[003].Offset=340,-320.0

Target[003].Heading=90

Target[004].Type=NIKE_L

Target[004].Offset=320,-320.00

Target[004].Heading=90

Target[005].Type=NIKE_L

Target[005].Offset=300.0,-320.00

Target[005].Heading=90

Target[006].Type=NIKE_L

Target[006].Offset=-325,440

Target[006].Heading=0

Target[007].Type=NIKE_L

Target[007].Offset=-305,440

Target[007].Heading=0

Target[008].Type=NIKE_L

Target[008].Offset=-285,440

Target[008].Heading=0

Target[009].Type=NIKE_L

Target[009].Offset=-265,440

Target[009].Heading=0

Target[010].Type=NIKE_LOPAR

Target[010].Offset=350.0,60.00

Target[010].Heading=90

Target[011].Type=AAA

Target[011].Offset=-472,110

Target[011].Heading=135

Target[012].Type=AAA

Target[012].Offset=-350,373

Target[012].Heading=225

Target[013].Type=AAA

Target[013].Offset=184,389

Target[013].Heading=45

Target[014].Type=building3

Target[014].Offset=-60,440

Target[014].Heading=0

Target[015].Type=building3

Target[015].Offset=390,22

Target[015].Heading=0

Target[016].Type=shack1

Target[016].Offset=2,15

Target[016].Heading=90

Target[017].Type=Bunker2

Target[017].Offset=150,-320

Target[017].Heading=0

Target[018].Type=Bunker2

Target[018].Offset=190,-320

Target[018].Heading=0

Target[019].Type=building2

Target[019].Offset=-115,-275

Target[019].Heading=90

Target[020].Type=fueltank3

Target[020].Offset=244,-88

Target[020].Heading=180

Target[021].Type=USFuelTruck

Target[021].Offset=112,145

Target[021].Heading=190

Target[022].Type=USJeep

Target[022].Offset=-142,-260

Target[022].Heading=180

Target[023].Type=USTruck

Target[023].Offset=-164,443

Target[023].Heading=180

Target[024].Type=USTruck

Target[024].Offset=362,-166

Target[024].Heading=180

Target[025].Type=USTruck

Target[025].Offset=32,161

Target[025].Heading=180

Target[026].Type=fire_dept

Target[026].Offset=15,155

Target[026].Heading=180

Target[027].Type=USFlag

Target[027].Offset=-140,-280

Target[027].Heading=0

Target[028].Type=USJeep

Target[028].Offset=11,5

Target[028].Heading=45

Target[029].Type=oildrum9

Target[029].Offset=250,-40

Target[029].Heading=270

Target[030].Type=AAA

Target[030].Offset=-47,374

Target[030].Heading=90

Target[031].Type=AAA

Target[031].Offset=250,-22

Target[031].Heading=180

Target[032].Type=AAA

Target[032].Offset=51.114,-324.744

Target[032].Heading=30

Target[033].Type=ground_platte3

Target[033].Offset=0,0

Target[033].Heading=0

Target[034].Type=Bunker2

Target[034].Offset=250,-320

Target[034].Heading=0

Target[035].Type=Bunker2

Target[035].Offset=215,-320

Target[035].Heading=0

Target[036].Type=Bunker2

Target[036].Offset=-265,395

Target[036].Heading=0

Target[037].Type=Bunker2

Target[037].Offset=-286,395

Target[037].Heading=0

Target[038].Type=Bunker2

Target[038].Offset=-310,395

Target[038].Heading=0

Target[039].Type=Bunker2

Target[039].Offset=-330,395

Target[039].Heading=0

Target[040].Type=ASR

Target[040].Offset=3,7

Target[040].Heading=0

Target[041].Type=barrack1

Target[041].Offset=14,-50

Target[041].Heading=0

Target[042].Type=barrack1

Target[042].Offset=50,-50

Target[042].Heading=0

Target[043].Type=GeneratorBuilding1

Target[043].Offset=225,-60

Target[043].Heading=0

Target[044].Type=fueltank2

Target[044].Offset=125,160

Target[044].Heading=180

Target[045].Type=fueltank2

Target[045].Offset=90,160

Target[045].Heading=180

Target[046].Type=Warehouse1

Target[046].Offset=410,-160

Target[046].Heading=0

Target[047].Type=Warehouse1

Target[047].Offset=410,-230

Target[047].Heading=0

Target[048].Type=Warehouse1

Target[048].Offset=130,-50

Target[048].Heading=90

Target[049].Type=CommBuilding1

Target[049].Offset=-180,-270

Target[049].Heading=0

 

 

I'm assuming that now you've got the HAWKS placed, adding to the types ini is become old hat

But these are what I used, just so's you'll have a reference: (again, renumber to fit)

 

subnote: the USFlag was 'borrowed' from DBS, I have a later version, along with East & West Germany, Netherlands, NATO and Russian flags. I've having some connection issuses (AGAIN!!), so I'll zip up a little package of them, and post them here to CA as soon as I can.

When they get uploaded, change the "USFLAG" to "AMFLAG" (mine has 50 stars, Major Lee's only has 48)

 

[TargetType***]

Name=NIKE_L

FullName=Nike SAM Launcher

TargetType=SAM_LAUNCHER

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=100

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=NIKE_L

RepairRate=3.22

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=SmallRocketGroundExplosion

SecondaryEffect=VehicleFireEffect

SecondaryChance=100

 

[TargetType***]

Name=NIKE_HIPAR

FullName=High Powered Acquistion RADAR

TargetType=SAM_RADAR

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=200

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=NIKE_HIPAR

RepairRate=3.22

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=LargeBombEffect

DestroyedModel=crane_destroyed.LOD

SecondaryEffect=LargeTallStructureCollapse

SecondaryChance=100

 

[TargetType***]

Name=NIKE_LOPAR

FullName=NIKE Early Warning Radar

TargetType=EW_RADAR

ActiveYear=0

TargetValue=250

UseGroundObject=TRUE

GroundObjectType=NIKE_LOPAR

RepairRate=3.22

StartDetectChance=80

StartIdentifiedChance=20

IncreaseDetectChanceKey=10

MaxVisibleDist=8000.0

DestroyedEffect=MediumBombEffect

SecondaryEffect=MediumStructureEffect

SecondaryChance=100

 

note to self: at some point in time, post data for adding parked ships so other's can have them. (added quite a few for some of the port cities)

 

Wrench

Kevin Stein

[Pap 0]

Have placed another dozen HAWK batteries, but am running into odd stuff with some units missing a firing section. At least the problem is dividing the unit realistically - I just don't know where the other half is! And all I'm doing is cutting and pasting. weird...

.....

I've done some testing with just the forward HAWK belt in and it is "interesting" to say the least if you are a Red Flyer

 

Nicholas

Why do not you try to put Hawk Btrys every 20km as a belt from north to south (this was actualy the case those days with so many Hawk Btries)?

Also you have to put some Btries to protect the main air bases.

 

PS: It's nice to see air defenders from the good old days.Reminds me NAMFI (Creta) firings...

 

Pap

[Nicholas Bell 117]

As far as I've been able to tell, as long as the object is listed in the types ini, and the callout in the targets ini matches, the object (and here's the operative word...) should show.

 

Here's the generic Nike battery I built; I've taken the Target number out, so you can add it to your own:

 

Thanks, Wrench! I've run into a big problem with the units not appearing - looks like a memory problem to me. (I've got 2 GB RAM and a 512 MB Geforce 7950, so I'm confident it's a program limitation, not my system) They are on the map and are visible in total in KMD, but are not consistently visible in the sim. As I mentioned early only half the unit was appearing. Now that I've added more batteries, even less of the unit is appearing. The 50 some target areas have bumped the GERMANYCE_TARGETS.INI file to a megabyte. Not sure if it's a matter of the 384 target areas or the total number of objects on the map which is causing the problem.

 

If it's a matter of total target areas I will integrate batteries into existing target areas. If it's an issue with the total object count I can eliminate launchers (2 per section instead of 3) or drop each "battery" location down to just one section. Still want to get the Nike units on the map - and they have quite a few objects....

 

Was hoping on being able to release this next weekend, but this problem is going to shoot down my plans. I'm bummed....

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Why do not you try to put Hawk Btrys every 20km as a belt from north to south (this was actualy the case those days with so many Hawk Btries)? Also you have to put some Btries to protect the main air bases.

 

PS: It's nice to see air defenders from the good old days.Reminds me NAMFI (Creta) firings...

 

Pap,

 

Great minds think alike - this is exactly what I am doing. However, I've run into the problem I mention above which may be related to the fact I've added too many objects to the map.

 

Ah, Crete - I never got there while I was stationed in Germany, as I was tied down my position as S-4 at battalion (6/52 ADA in Wuerzburg). OTOH while stationed at Fort Bliss I was able to participate in interesting exercises at While Sands Missile Range and also made 2 trips to Nellis AFB in Nevada to participate in Red Flag exercises with the USAF. Now those were a simheads dream come true! But hardly living a vacation like you - heck people pay good money just to vacation in Greece. A to think you were being paid to sit on some mountain top with a grand beautiful view.

[Pap 0]

Pap,

 

Great minds think alike - this is exactly what I am doing. However, I've run into the problem I mention above which may be related to the fact I've added too many objects to the map.

 

Ah, Crete - I never got there while I was stationed in Germany, as I was tied down my position as S-4 at battalion (6/52 ADA in Wuerzburg). OTOH while stationed at Fort Bliss I was able to participate in interesting exercises at While Sands Missile Range and also made 2 trips to Nellis AFB in Nevada to participate in Red Flag exercises with the USAF. Now those were a simheads dream come true! But hardly living a vacation like you - heck people pay good money just to vacation in Greece. A to think you were being paid to sit on some mountain top with a grand beautiful view.

 

My friend Nicholas

I was at Fort Bliss in 1986-87.Great time but i must say that i would prefer the mountain top sites

in stand of While Sands Missile Range exercises...

 

3D MODERS

I have a question. The problem of the salvo firings of lunchers is it possible to be solved by creating

a new 3D model with 3 hawk launchers (9 rails,9 missiles at 3 diferent pivot point)?

 

Pap

[Nicholas Bell 117]

I have a question. The problem of the salvo firings of lunchers is it possible to be solved by creating

a new 3D model with 3 hawk launchers (9 rails,9 missiles at 3 diferent pivot point)? Pap

 

Pap,

 

The battery layout I am using is preventing this most of the time by having the launchers orientated in 45 degrees increments. I do still see a 2 missile firing on occasion, but it does not bother me. It's just the TCO going nuts doing a ripple fire instead of "shoot-look-shoot"

 

I've fixed my problem with units not appearing - headspace and timing on my part. I will post the modified map as-is with just the HAWK units for review and comment, while continuing to work on adding the Nike-Herc sites and the other modifications I want to do for the next release. Hopefully I can do this initial version this weekend if my wife doesn't have all my time scheduled out for me...

[Fubar512 1,350]

Nick,

 

The issue you're experiencing can be rectified to a degree. Check PMs, I've sent you something to try out,

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Nick, The issue you're experiencing can be rectified to a degree. Check PMs, I've sent you something to try out,

 

Thanks Fubar - I'm using the same .ini limiting the yaw to plus/minus 30 degrees the launcher orientation. I have the battery's 6 launchers spread out and pointing to about 315, 20, 90, 90, 160, 225. Since there are 2 HIPIR's, launching 2 missiles is normal. I see 3 launches simultaneously only very rarely (which I can rationalize as ripple fire). So all in all I think it's working pretty good. Once I get this mod posted and folks observe and share their experiences, I can tweak as required.

 

I've also modified the radar and weapon data to more accurately reflect actual capabilities of IHAWK (post -1972). I will need to figure out a way to also have the early HAWK available (which had shorter range).

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Sorry for the delay in getting this mod posted - I'm at my wits end. Day 4 of banging my head in frustration.

 

I decided I would of course test the package on a clean install of NATO Fighters, and now I've got nothing but problems. Hoping someone wise can help. Here's the situation:

 

1. If I load HAWK objects and revised terrain files, but do not add the HAWK missile in the weapondata.ini - everything works except there are no missiles. That is, the HAWK missile object does not appear on the launcher. This is the expected result.

 

2. If I add the HAWK missile in the weapondata.ini (and save it of course in the weapon editor) the program crashes when the scenario starts (100% load). This occurs if I create a new mission or used one the missions I made to place the HAWK units.

 

So, there must be something wrong with how I am adding the HAWK to the weapondata - or so it would seem. But NOT so! If I load one of the canned missions included in the sim - everything works fine. Not only that - if I create a new mission or load one of my missions mentioned in item#2 AFTER I play the canned mission - everything works! HAWKS galore.

 

So something is being "set" by playing a canned mission which allows the HAWK missiles to appear and work. I'm not missing any files directly related to the HAWK stuff or it would never appear. What else is there?

 

Any ideas? FWIW, before I decided to package it up it was working great without any complications and it was nice to see NATO SAM action.

[Nicholas Bell 117]

No ideas? I guess I'm on my own here breaking new territory with modifying the map. This week I have narrowed the problem down to where things start falling apart when I have over 370 Target Areas. At least in my tests this seems to be the number where the program crashes. So I am trying to add the additional HAWK batteries as objects attached to other Target Areas, rather than being one themselves. This takes a bit of calculation and effort, as each element is offset from the main Target Area, as opposed to a HAWK battery target area where everything is offset from the BCC location. Last night I managed to add one battery using this method (with 370 Target Areas total) and it worked.

 

So if you are still reading , the bottom line is I am still determined to complete this project and am working on it daily.

[Wrench 9,801]

Nick, I added a HAWK unit to one of the airbases, can't remember which; I'll have to go back over the targets ini to find which one,and post the generic offsets. Still has the oddness of not showing all the objects, too

 

Interesting to note, the "one terrain" being worked on, even though it only has 60 target areas, there are several with 280-odd individual targets, and another with 380+ individual units. And that one works fine.

 

There may be an upper limit to amount of target areas.

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[Nicholas Bell 117]

Those are very encouraging words - thanks, Wrench. Gives me hope I can make this work. I have a map with 25 batteries placed on the belt. I've also added them to airfields, but I don't want to do generic setups. Rather, I'd like to keep them on the hills were I put them when I had 55 batteries placed (and working!). Since I've "rediscovered" how airfields differ from other target areas, ie offset orientation is per runway direction rather than the normal x-y axis, I think I would prefer to use another method - either using other non-airbase target areas or creating macro target areas as you mentioned (thank you!). Wondering out loud if having an enormous target area radius is going to impact memory, frame-rates, etc.

 

And FWIW apparently using cities as target areas and adding units to them causes problems.