Battle of Britain Campaign Feedback

[+Baltika 84]

At long last, after enough typing to make the fingers bleed, the WW2 RAF Speech pack v1.0 is complete.

 

Courtesy of Microprose's European Air War and Jane's WW2 Fighters.

 

Currently awaiting clearance in the download section.

 

For your Battle of Britain "immersion" pleasure

 

 

Tally-ho, chaps! Jerry at nine o'clock low! Let's get those blighters!

 

 

baltika

[+whiteknight06604 934]

At long last, after enough typing to make the fingers bleed, the WW2 RAF Speech pack v1.0 is complete.

 

Courtesy of Microprose's European Air War and Jane's WW2 Fighters.

 

Currently awaiting clearance in the download section.

 

For your Battle of Britain "immersion" pleasure

Tally-ho, chaps! Jerry at nine o'clock low! Let's get those blighters!

baltika

 

I just installed it in my BoB install and have only tried it a few times but it adds so much to the game now.Many thanks for all the hard work involved.

[GreyCap 0]

There's a RAF Speech pack out? Oh you guys leave me no choice now, I gotta try out this Battle of Britain Campaign!

[Bandy 3]

Hi Baltika,

FE expansion has occupied what little time I have to fly, plus I've been away for a while on work (and looking for work), but was I surprised to see your BoB voice pack! I remember reading about the concept in the thread, but I never thought it would pan out so quickly. Very impressive. This is easily the best campaign around...

 

Thanks for all the hard work.

[12ams 0]

How the devil do you successfully complete a mission. I usually Ctrl-N directly to the action after takeoff (I'm a father of two, and a military man, so I hurry up and wait enough in my life, thank you ). I either can't find my primary target, or I hit them outbound. And when I do find them, there is no way I have enough ammo or armour plating to survive long enough to shoot down the whole flight. Any advice? Should I relax the settings?

 

Thanks,

Rick

[+Baltika 84]

How the devil do you successfully complete a mission. I usually Ctrl-N directly to the action after takeoff (I'm a father of two, and a military man, so I hurry up and wait enough in my life, thank you ). I either can't find my primary target, or I hit them outbound. And when I do find them, there is no way I have enough ammo or armour plating to survive long enough to shoot down the whole flight. Any advice? Should I relax the settings?

 

Thanks,

Rick

 

 

Hi there Rick,

 

Yup, it's tricky at best to complete an intercept mission.

 

First of all, the campaign engine does not set intercept waypoints efficiently, So, before you starta mission, go into "planning map" and re-set your waypoints, as follows:-

 

Wypt 6 - Yellow circle, with black circle round it - called Navigation point, this shows the Bomber's target and can't be moved.

Wypt 5 - Yellow triangle - "Objective Point" - shows the point at which the game expects you to make intercept, and likewise can't be moved.

Wypt 4 - Yellow Square - "Initial Point" - shows the point at which you will appear if you use Alt+N or select start mission "near target" in game options. Move this point so it lies directly between points 5 & 6, i.e. between the intercept point and the target.

Wypt 3 - Yellow Circle - "Navigation Point" - Move this so it lies on a direct line between point 2 (Departure Point) and your

new point 4.

 

Then, if you have set this up properly, you should find that you appear at your IP between the bombers and their target, and when they are still 25+ miles distant. The next stage is to use Red Crown (or Top Hat Control if you have the WW2 voicepack installed) to give you a vector to your primary target. This will give you range, altitude and heading for your target and you should calculate your course to make intercept.

 

Final stage - the really tricky part - downing some bombers.

 

This has been debated at length earlier in this thread (worth a read if you get the time) and elsewhere. It is admittedly difficult to get bomber kills. Your early Hurris and Spits are armed with 8x Browning .303 mgs, but no cannon. The bombers are heavily armoured, have self-sealing armoured fuel tanks, and their gunners are determined and accurate. This all seems to be historically accurate so far as the various sources I have looked at are concerned.

 

Having said that, there are a few "legitimate" tweaks you can make. Early on in this thread, about post #5 or #6, capun listed some data.ini tweaks for the bombers to make their gunnery more historical. This reduced the rate of fire and "lock-on" rate for defensive fire, and also reduced the ammo load a bit. Worth a look if you are getting very badly shot up all the time.

 

A couple of points have also been made about the lack of "hit-boxes" for engines (or engine nacelles, I can't remember which way round it was). In my install, I copied the MinExtentPosition and MaxExtentPosition data from the nacelle section to the engine section (or vice versa) and that seems to make it a bit easier to get engine hits. Once you separate a bomber from the pack, it's much easier to pick it off.

 

On that topic, I have noticed that on some bombers there are no "pilot" hit boxes. This may be by design (the cabins were armoured), but it means you can't get pilot kills, which were one of the few historical ways of ensuring your bomber went down.

 

For pilot hitboxes, add the following entries in the {bomber}_data.ini file under the [Pilot] heading:-

 

Ju-88A4

MinExtentPosition=-0.54,1.49,-0.46

MaxExtentPosition=-0.08,2.3,1.06

 

Do-17Z (I think this data may already be present in the "stock" file)

MinExtentPosition=-0.5,3.6,0.3

MaxExtentPosition= 0.0,3.0,1.0

 

He-111H (all variants)

MinExtentPosition=-0.66,2.19,-0.45

MaxExtentPosition=-0.2,3.0,1.07

 

Then, aim for the cockpit (head on attacks are obviously best for this). It will be obvious to you when you get a pilot kill

 

If all else fails, cheat (Well, it is a game after all :yes: ) As follows:-

 

For some "arcade" style action, scroll down to the fuel tank section in the bomber's _data.ini file and set the flags "SelfHealing=", "FireSuppression=" and "HasArmor=" for each Fuel Cell to FALSE. Then, light 'em up and watch them burn

 

Just bear in mind the RAF didn't have that option

 

If you're feeling guilty about using the above "arcade" option, even things out by making the same edit to the auxiliary fuel tank in your Hurricane. Early in the Battle, no such protection was included for the auxiliary tank, the thinking being that it was protected by the engine block to the front and the pilot's rear armour from behind. Experience showed that protection was insufficient, and resulted in lots of badly burned/killed pilots early on. The Hurri was hastily retrofitted throughout the Battle to remove that weakness.

 

Happy hunting,

 

baltika

Edited November 26, 2007 by Baltika

[Bandy 3]

How the devil do you successfully complete a mission. .... there is no way I have enough ammo or armour plating to survive long enough to shoot down the whole flight. ...

 

First off, thank you Baltika for the tactical advice and "tutorial" on resetting the way points. I didn't know that could be done... haven't seen it mentioned anywhere before, or in the manual (maybe I should read it again ). Also, I am truly speechless regarding your "voicepack" release! Amazing, great work.

 

Rick, I don't think that "shooting down the whole flight" is a realistic option the way the game is set up stock, and depending on how you want to fly the game: more "historically" (where-ever that point lies...) or "arcade" (shoot'em up...), and by no means am I passing judgment here, I enjoy the full-flame satisfaction on occasion, but for me at least it does get tired after a while. I count myself lucky if I or my flight get a bomber, maybe two or three, and then head home. The hardest thing to accomplish is to get my flight mates to survive the encounter at all!!! I try to last in order to win the overall campaign by ensuring that more of the squadron survives, than by winning individual battles. BoB is tough...

 

I have tried the head-on approach with very limited success (will definitely incorporate the pilot hitboxes now, thanks Balt!), and after the first pass, have found it difficult to regain a good tactical approach afterwards, ie: you just end up chasing the bombers' tails and your AI wingmates get shot up, badly...

 

Historically, I've read some RAF BoFrance and BoB accounts of approaching Luft. formations high and to the front quarter, zooming thru the formation, and around for pass after pass from the sides, and this has worked for me, but of course my AI don't fly like that...

 

As you mention ammo is a limiting factor, 16 seconds of .303 I think on hard ammo setting? Armour is poor on the early fighters, so dodge around a bit when approaching the formation, never stay pointed at a bomber for longer than a second or two, then get out of the way. Your anticipation to fire and aim has to be right on, something I aspire to...

 

Good luck!

[+Baltika 84]

Hi Bandy,

 

Glad you're enjoying the speechpack, cheers for the vote of thanks

 

I think you will find your success rate during head-on attacks increases considerably when pilot hitboxes are enabled

 

And, to pick up on an earlier discussion we had way back when this thread was young, I have seen Luft bomber formations diving to the ground (for cover??) after successfully taking out a bomber during a head-on attack - maybe the AI doesn't have such nerves of steel after all. . .

 

Let me know if you see something similar.

 

Cheers,

 

baltika

[Bandy 3]

How the devil do you successfully complete a mission.

 

Oh, I forgot to mention, hit refly... Alot!!!

[+allenjb42 4,230]

Excellent work on the speechpack. I asked about doing this a few years ago over at SimHQ and got the answer that it wasn't possible.

 

Might be appropriate for a Falklands mod too.

 

So the impossible has been done. I guess miracles may take a bit longer (German, Japanese, Italian, Spanish, French, Korean, Chinese, Hebrew, Arabic, Farsi, Parani, Dhimari etc etc).

[+Baltika 84]

Hi allen,

 

Glad you're enjoying the speechpack.

 

The process was straightforward, but extremely time-consuming. I don't think I mentioned it in the readme, but in the download I have included a couple of .wdb (database) files which list the filenames and corresponding speech for the thirdwire series, EAW and Janes WW2 Fighters. Of course, it was only after I had completed this tedious task that I found the work had already been done for EAW by some enterprising soul for their own EAW Speech packs

 

The EAW community also provided a convertor utility to change the EAW proprietary format sound files into .wav files, which SFP1 uses.

 

Then it was just a process of finding the appropriate EAW/Janes file and renaming it to replace the SFP1 file. I had to do a little trimming here and there (using an excellent free utility called WavePad), and a little minor editing to the SPEECHSYSTEM.INI, but that was it.

 

The real problem is the time it takes. Plus, it's boring. There are 1699 .wav files in stock SFP1. That's a lot of copying, typing and renaming. I was only able to complete the RAF pack because recently I have been on a long series of 2 1/2 hour commutes, by train, with my trusty laptop and headphones, over a period of weeks, stretching into months.

 

Like Gepard, I would like to have a WW2 Luftwaffe pack, and the files are all there in EAW and WW2F, but I suspect it will be a long time before I have the time even to look at taking that on.

 

I also agree something similar would be good for the Falklands Campaign. The reason my RAF pack is specifically "WW2" is that I had no source files for things like missile and SAM launch alerts, status calls as to missiles, radar and so forth, which simply don't exist in the earlier period. So, for that sort of thing, we may have to renew the call for volunteers to start recording the correct phrases.

 

And I am afraid my Hebrew is more than just rusty - try non-existent

 

Cheerio for now

Edited November 30, 2007 by Baltika

[+Baltika 84]

Bump.

 

You guys had me worried for a while there when you said this thread had disappeared.

 

Apologies for the fact that the pace of development has slowed to something of a crawl. v0.61 is in the works, but I can't even say "two weeks," sorry

 

Meantime, for those still taking the old BoB campaign for a twirl, if there's any feedback you'd care to offer, or things you'd like to see in future version(s), please feel free to sound off about it now.

 

Cheers to one and all,

 

baltika

[Viggen 643]

Apologies for the fact that the pace of development has slowed to something of a crawl. v0.61 is in the works, but I can't even say "two weeks," sorry

 

Hey no worries. We can wait. We've waited a long time for other mods and survived.

[GreyCap 0]

I have a quick question! First of all congrats on this mod Baltika, nothing beats flying a Spitfire as one of 'The Few'!

 

I get rather unacceptable frame rates when I attack bombers. I'm pretty sure it's because of all the tracer smoke. So maybe just getting rid it would help alot, but I'm not sure what files it is in Effects folder.

If you have other tips on how to improve fps while approaching bombers let me know! Apart from bomber attacks, my frame rates are perfect.

cheers

[+Baltika 84]

I have a quick question! First of all congrats on this mod Baltika, nothing beats flying a Spitfire as one of 'The Few'!

 

I get rather unacceptable frame rates when I attack bombers. I'm pretty sure it's because of all the tracer smoke. So maybe just getting rid it would help alot, but I'm not sure what files it is in Effects folder.

If you have other tips on how to improve fps while approaching bombers let me know! Apart from bomber attacks, my frame rates are perfect.

cheers

 

 

Hi GreyCap, glad you're enjoying the campaign

 

The WW2 formations mod, in conjunction with the very high quality skins for the add-on bombers, seems to be the most likely culprit for low framerates in bomber attacks. This is a known issue. Stock SFP1/WoV/WoE simply wasn't designed to put the numbers of planes in the air that a BoB campaign requires. Read posts #91 to #98 in this thread, at page 5, on some tips which may help.

 

Certainly, CA_Stary's WW2 effects pack (awesome work there) has some framerate impact, but he has tweaked that to minimise the problem. If you want to remove his WW2 effects, you will need to check the files included in the BoB d/l (his effects pack is available separately at combatace for reference) and remove his various .tgas and .ini files from the effects folder. Careful how you go there.

 

The best suggestion I can offer is to reduce the size of the bomber skin .bmps, method described at posts #91 to #98 above.

 

Happy hunting,

 

Baltika

[GreyCap 0]

Ok thnks for the answer! I thought I read all the pages carefully,

[Canadair 16]

Ok thnks for the answer! I thought I read all the pages carefully,

Baltika thanks for the campaign. I don't know what I was thinking and so far I had avoided WWII installs.

Anyway I had to resize ALL the skins. Who thought that 12 mb worth of skin for Me-109 was agood idea? well not for my ppor rig for sure.. sigh. anyway it works much better now. A german sound pack would be great too..

Anyway , few questions

Was there a role for tempest and tyhponn in BOB?

and..is it valid to throw the uberai mod in the bob campaing

 

And most important; can you share more about this phased campaing concept of yours? I am really intrested.

How do you time the air offenisve with ground operations? how does the player know if he is moved to next phase campaing, and does he at all?

thanks for the campaing and for all the knowledge you might feel like sharing

Edited February 3, 2008 by Canadair

[GreyCap 0]

Canadair would there be a way I can get my hands on your resized skins? For one I'm not sure how to even do that and also I read one needs photoshop or something like that- and I don't.

Maybe you can upload it here or somewhere else?

[+Baltika 84]

Canadair would there be a way I can get my hands on your resized skins? For one I'm not sure how to even do that and also I read one needs photoshop or something like that- and I don't.

Maybe you can upload it here or somewhere else?

 

 

Hi GreyCap,

 

Any image editing software will do the job, even "paint" which should be part of your basic windows install. I use paint.net, which is a free d/l, for all my skin/decal work. Just google it to get the website. Just make sure you keep the skin .bmps in proportion, i.e. 64x64, 128x128, 256x256, 512x512 etc.

 

Cheers,

 

Baltika

[Canadair 16]

baltika, no answers to me?

[+Baltika 84]

Anyway , few questions

Was there a role for tempest and tyhponn in BOB?

and..is it valid to throw the uberai mod in the bob campaing

 

And most important; can you share more about this phased campaing concept of yours? I am really intrested.

How do you time the air offenisve with ground operations? how does the player know if he is moved to next phase campaing, and does he at all?

 

 

Hi Canadair, glad you're enjoying the campaign - there's loads of great WW2 stuff available, glad you took the plunge

 

To answer your questions:-

Tempest and Typhoon were not in service in the BoB timeframe. I am working up a "Channel Front 41-44" campaign which will use them, and many of the later types, but it's a long way off from release, sorry.

 

I use the uberai mod on all my installs, no problem there.

 

Phased campaign in BoB works by assigning targets in the AirOffensive[xxx]= flags in the BoB_data.ini for the Luftwaffe in conjunction with defining those targets very carefully in the [terrain]_types.ini to match the targets as assigned in the [terrain]_targets.ini. I have heavily modded Gepard's files to make the phased campaign work. Take a look at each of those sections in each of the campaign d/l files to see how it works.

 

As you play through the campaign, the Luftwaffe will assign Channel Convoy/Coastal targets for strike missions. It will then move on to the airfield assault phase by assigning, you guessed it, airfield targets, and then targets in the City of London. The only way the player knows the campaign is moving through the phases is by observing the targets which the Luftwaffe is striking. A degree of overlap is built in, not least because the Luftwaffe seemed to have a less-than-focussed approach to objectives as the Battle developed.

 

As to timing with Ground ops, well. . .

 

The "StartGroundOffensive=" Flag under each Force in the campaign_data.ini sets the number of Air Offensive misions which must be completed before that force enters Ground Offensive phase. Your ground units must also have sufficient supply to meet the "SupplyForOffensive=" value for each force before launching an attack. Rinse and repeat, with ground offensive phase following air offensive phase. Winning or losing an air offensive mission does not seem to affect the countdown.

 

In the BoB campaign, note the startdates for the Wehrmacht units - late September. So, no groundoffensives are launched until ground units are available to undertake them. The reason the Allied ground units are available from the start of the campaign is to add a bit of local colour, and allow them to build up from very low strengths to something approaching (but well short of) operational capability. You may find that, if you make it to SeeLowe, the ground war is very short indeed, all the same. The reason the Allied ground units do not attempt to invade the continent is because the connections for strategic nodes (defined in the campaign_data.ini) run in one direction only, ie from France to England, and not from England to France. So, the Allied units have no "path" to follow to the Luftwaffe base node.

 

Again, that may change for the Channel Front campaign, as the ill-fated Dieppe landings deserve recognition, not least for the folly of their undertaking in the first place.

 

Hope that helps. Everything I learned about building campaigns came from reading these boards, asking questions, and just trying stuff out to see what would happen. If you have a specific question, fire away.

 

Bon chance!

 

Baltika

Edited February 4, 2008 by Baltika

[Canadair 16]

Hi Canadair, glad you're enjoying the campaign - there's loads of great WW2 stuff available, glad you took the plunge

 

To answer your questions:-

Tempest and Typhoon were not in service in the BoB timeframe. I am working up a "Channel Front 41-44" campaign which will use them, and many of the later types, but it's a long way off from release, sorry.

 

I use the uberai mod on all my installs, no problem there.

 

Thanks for answering, and not just for your skills but for your kindess

Yes I did and it is fun indeed. I sort of knew that about tempest and typhoon, and should you need help and testing with Channel Front consider me available. I just like the Tempest and typhoon, they remind me of early time A-10 and Su-25

 

Phased campaign in BoB works by assigning targets in the AirOffensive[xxx]= flags in the BoB_data.ini for the Luftwaffe in conjunction with defining those targets very carefully in the [terrain]_types.ini to match the targets as assigned in the [terrain]_targets.ini. I have heavily modded Gepard's files to make the phased campaign work. Take a look at each of those sections in each of the campaign d/l files to see how it works.

 

As you play through the campaign, the Luftwaffe will assign Channel Convoy/Coastal targets for strike missions. It will then move on to the airfield assault phase by assigning, you guessed it, airfield targets, and then targets in the City of London. The only way the player knows the campaign is moving through the phases is by observing the targets which the Luftwaffe is striking. A degree of overlap is built in, not least because the Luftwaffe seemed to have a less-than-focussed approach to objectives as the Battle developed.

 

I checked your data file and figured out what you wrote and explained, I just was curious as there was anything more. Your job in timing targeting and air offensives is very intersting and worth of text-book approach.

 

As to timing with Ground ops, well. . .

 

The "StartGroundOffensive=" Flag under each Force in the campaign_data.ini sets the number of Air Offensive misions which must be completed before that force enters Ground Offensive phase. Your ground units must also have sufficient supply to meet the "SupplyForOffensive=" value for each force before launching an attack. Rinse and repeat, with ground offensive phase following air offensive phase. Winning or losing an air offensive mission does not seem to affect the countdown.

 

In the BoB campaign, note the startdates for the Wehrmacht units - late September. So, no groundoffensives are launched until ground units are available to undertake them. The reason the Allied ground units are available from the start of the campaign is to add a bit of local colour, and allow them to build up from very low strengths to something approaching (but well short of) operational capability. You may find that, if you make it to SeeLowe, the ground war is very short indeed, all the same. The reason the Allied ground units do not attempt to invade the continent is because the connections for strategic nodes (defined in the campaign_data.ini) run in one direction only, ie from France to England, and not from England to France. So, the Allied units have no "path" to follow to the Luftwaffe base node.

 

I have yet to understand how they run in one only direction. I have to study.. I saw that interdictions and ground offensive start at 3 for luftwaffe, thoguh, is there a reason? but you delayed the ground unts by their date,, very intersting. Also what do you mean by "and allow them to build up from very low strengths to something approaching (but well short of) operational capability. "?

 

Hope that helps. Everything I learned about building campaigns came from reading these boards, asking questions, and just trying stuff out to see what would happen. If you have a specific question, fire away.

 

I read your entire thread and thought downloading the campaing was a good recognition to your efforts; I like doing campaing too, and broke my head over the anti-shipping missions if you rememeber. ( Iam ATRdriver on 3rdwire forum)

 

Thank you!

[+Baltika 84]

I have yet to understand how they run in one only direction. I have to study.. I saw that interdictions and ground offensive start at 3 for luftwaffe, thoguh, is there a reason? but you delayed the ground unts by their date,, very intersting. Also what do you mean by "and allow them to build up from very low strengths to something approaching (but well short of) operational capability. "?

 

 

Hi Canadair/atr,

 

On the subject of strategic nodes, if you look in that section of the campaign_data.ini, you will see that each node is connected to the others by use of the "ConnectTo[xxx].Target=Eastbourne" flag. You will see that while the French Ports are connected to the English ports in this way, under each of the entries for the English ports, they are only connected on the English side of the channel.

 

Interdictions and ground offensive set at 3 for Luftwaffe so that you get 3 airoffensive phases between each groundoffensive phase. This gives the Luftwaffe side just enough time, before the max mission limit is reached to end the campaign, to capture London, provided they are successful in the intervening air offensive missions. It also gives the RAF side a chance to stem the offensive by winning air offensive missions in between the ground attack phases and forcing a "draw." But it's a pretty close run thing either way. The intention was to simulate the supply problems faced by the Wehrmacht ground forces even if they did manage to get ashore. And then there's always the Royal Navy to consider. So, while the Wehrmacht are numerically and technologically much superior, they are not guaranteed to win.

 

On your final point, the UK and Commonwealth ground forces are set to start the campaign at about 50% or less of their operational strength (with the exception of the NZ and Canadian Divisions, who may be expected to be in reasonably good order). This is to represent the perilous state of the British Army having just been chased out of France at Dunkirk. Over time, the unit % strength will build up as preparations are made to meet the invasion, but even by late September it is unlikely that those units will be at full strength. And with only one below-strength armoured division to defend London, things look pretty bleak for the UK if the Germans manage to land several full-strength Panzer Divisions supported by large troop formations.

 

Happy hunting,

 

Baltika

[Canadair 16]

Incredably intersting and historically correct.

Can I abuse of your patience and ask you about , for instance, this entry?

 

[strategicNode006]

Area=Port of Le Havre

ConnectTo[001].Target=Paris Orly Airport

ConnectTo[001].BasePoint=995000,335000

ConnectTo[002].Target=Port of Brighton

ConnectTo[002].BasePoint=718000,580000

ConnectTo[003].Target=Port of Cherbourg

ConnectTo[003].BasePoint=527846,439536

 

Orly is EAST of Le havre, while Brighton and cherbourg are East of le havre., so what does the area= mean?

[+Baltika 84]

The "Area=" flag defines the strategic node. The entry must match the name of a TargetArea as defined in the terrain_targets.ini file.

 

Ground Units must be placed at a Target Area which is defined as a strategic node in order to show up on the campaign map, using the BaseArea= flag under the particular ground unit.

 

I don't think there is any particular significance as to the geographical location of the relatiove strategic nodes, except of course it makes sense if they are connected up to the nodes closest to each one. So you wouldn't connect Paris Orly to London House of Parliament (unless you anted a very shgort ground war indeed!)

 

Cheers,

 

Baltika