nieuport 16

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

if i don't make mistake the N16 is a N11 with 110hp engine and weight 375 kg empty (80 hp and 320 kg for N11)

 

if we add a 110hp in the N11 data and change weight to 375 will be a N16???

 

thank you

[+Tailspin 3]

The N16 had a headrest similar to the N17. I think you'd have to change the flight model as was often the case with these small, light, well balanced aircraft the extra weight of this "upgrade" adversely affected the great flying qualities of the N11

 

http://mars.ark.com/~mdf/N_11.html

[+christian59 8]

i have made the change in engine and weight

 

i dont know if the plane was very changed by this

 

all fighting have the same score 0/2 to 4/8 for the german

 

but nieuport don't have new IA.........may be

[+peter01 2]

I think its a great idea Christian.

 

The nie.16 was far more widely used than the nie.11 by mid/late 1916 on the western front, all a bit confusuing in records as they were generally referred to as "13s" (based on wing area, not official designations). So i assume performance was similar and slightly better than the nie.11 - the larger engine should do the trick. The nie.11 was then relegated to training and converted to 2 seaters once the nie.16s were available.

 

I believe the nie.16 mainly used a single synchronised Vickers.

 

Any chance of this, since you are so good at it ?? And it would distinuish the two types. A nie.11/16 megapack! Both would look great with Alligators enhanced cockpits.

 

If not, could you explain how you would do it, especially gun changes if possible at all?

 

A bit of a pity we don't have the correct model - it may have only required an addition/change to the headrest Tailspin pointed out, I think.

Edited October 16, 2007 by peter01

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

the few data i have hare here

from Nieuport Fighters Windsock Datafile Specilal 1

 

the overall plane look same just he climb much better and pilots say this was a more unpleasant to fly

 

wing loading 41.3 kg/m N16

wing loading 36.1 kg/m N11

here is a prototype of N16 data

if some one can make fly agains N11 in "internet game" it will be easy to see the change

 

thank you

[+Tailspin 3]

The N16 actually was the N11 airframe with a headrest and larger opening in the front of the engine cowling. The 16 was, by all accounts I've read, less manoeuverable than the 11 because of the heavier engine. FWIW, judging from several comments in print, I don't think the Vickers gunned 16 was all that successful. Adding the Vickers and ammo to the nose just added more weight and imbalance. (See the comments on the 16 Willie Coppens rec'd in the link in my first post) The development of the larger N17 seems to have solved the problem with the Vickers installation. Just how common was the N16 on the Western Front? The RFC only had 23? Any numbers on the French? It appears the Russians flew them alot as they were also made under license in Russia.

 

http://ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2000/06/...e_frenchww1.htm

[+peter01 2]

Ahh, good stuff christian, i'll have to invest in some windsock datafiles - but which ones!

 

about same max speed -> must have higher drag, despite bigger engine thus bit heavier in feel

higher wing loading -> less climb, offset in this case obviously by bigger engine, therefore probably slightly better climb

higher wing loading -> slower roll

higher wing loading -> probably higher stall speed

greater weight (esp on nose) -> less responsive pitch

greater weight -> lower acceleration

greater weight -> probably less propeller torque

change in weight distribution -> given pilots weren't that impressed, probably less balanced, harder to fly

bigger rotary engine -> maybe more gyro/precession effects (but we don't have any of this ...yet!!)

 

Easy!

 

Do you know how to mod the plane so that lewis gun can be replaced with a synchronised vickers?

 

Edit: just saw your post Tailspin. I think the nie.16s replaced the nie.11 tho not completely, the RNAS (an early nie.11 customer) didn't upgrade, 2 RFC squadrons converted (probably more - re confusion "13s" - so exact number is unknown). the French probably kept most - I don't have numbers however. Suffice to say, it was used in late 1916 on the Western front; but was overtaken by other developments as you imply, nie.17, spad, pup etc. Still worth including IMHO.

Edited October 15, 2007 by peter01

[+Tailspin 3]

Worth including? Sure, why not? Too bad we don't have a proper model. Adding the headrest would be a simple modification, I'm sure. I'm still a bit uncertain about the Vickers mount though. What little I've read indicates it was rare for the N16.

[+peter01 2]

Worth including? Sure, why not? Too bad we don't have a proper model. Adding the headrest would be a simple modification, I'm sure. I'm still a bit uncertain about the Vickers mount though. What little I've read indicates it was rare for the N16.

 

I agree re model. Its a pity.

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

modling is to much for me

 

add a gun pod it's ok

like this N24bis with uper gun

and little work on data

[+peter01 2]

Okay, no probs christian, just thought i'd ask if it was easy and possible. Thanks

[+christian59 8]

i think it's not very difficul to add a gun

 

just i don't actualy understand why

 

i hope later understant

 

[+Monty CZ 209]

I agree re model. Its a pity.

 

Ok guys I like your interest, so here is my present:

new model is here

Download

[+Tailspin 3]

Many, many thanks Monty CZ!! YOU DA MAN.

[+Flamer50 3]

Ok guys I like your interest, so here is my present:

 

Thanks Monty! Greatly Appreciated!

[+Tailspin 3]

Hmmmm....The Lewis Gun has no texture. I noticed its not the same model as the N11's Lewis Gun. I just copied the N11 folder added the N16 LOD and renamed the .ini folder and the appropriate entries. What did I miss?

[+Tailspin 3]

Nevermind. Got it sorted out. I needed the new lewis.bmp for the new gun model.

[+Tailspin 3]

I'm going to go ahead and take the liberty of writing up how to get the N16 working. This is just the basics. It does not include Christian's modded DATA.INI as I'm not sure if its ready for general release yet? Anyway here's what I did.

 

First make a copy of the Nieuport N11 folder. Rename it to Nieuport 16. Open the file and find the Neiuport11.ini. Open that and change the following lines:

 

AircraftFullName=NIEUPORT 11 to 16

AircraftShortName=Nieuport 11 to 16

 

[LOD001]

Filename=Nieuport11.LOD to Nieuport16.LOD

Distance=100

 

Close and rename Nieuport11.ini to Nieuport16.ini Add the new N16 LOD and OUT files to the new Nieuport 16 folder you created. You'll also need the new lewis.bmp texure file. If you don't already have the lewis.bmp from Monte CZ's new Lewis gun model download it here:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...80&start=80

 

Look for Monty CZ's post with the lewis.rar attachment....OR you can get the .bmp from the N17 Megapack. Drop the lewis.bmp into the N16 folder. (You may not have to do this if you have the Megapack already installed. I don't so I need the extra .bmp to get the gun texture to show up.)

 

That ought to do it. I don't think I've left anything out. If you have probs just post here.

[+whiteknight06604 934]

once again Monty to the rescue.Thank you.

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

thank you one more time

 

it's simple great

 

for my DATA you can use but it's not my data just the N11 data with 110hp engine :blush2:

 

i try to make a AI for this plane but like th N11 it's not very easy :moil:

 

it was a long time without any new WWI plane :spartak:

 

thank you

[+peter01 2]

Ok guys I like your interest, so here is my present:

new model is here

Download

 

Thanks Monty!!!!!

 

It really is a new plane now.

 

Thanks also to Christian and Tailspin.

[+peter01 2]

I'm going to go ahead and take the liberty of writing up how to get the N16 working. This is just the basics. It does not include Christian's modded DATA.INI as I'm not sure if its ready for general release yet? Anyway here's what I did.

 

First make a copy of the Nieuport N11 folder. Rename it to Nieuport 16. Open the file and find the Neiuport11.ini. Open that and change the following lines:

 

AircraftFullName=NIEUPORT 11 to 16

AircraftShortName=Nieuport 11 to 16

 

[LOD001]

Filename=Nieuport11.LOD to Nieuport16.LOD

Distance=100

 

Close and rename Nieuport11.ini to Nieuport16.ini Add the new N16 LOD and OUT files to the new Nieuport 16 folder you created. You'll also need the new lewis.bmp texure file. If you don't already have the lewis.bmp from Monte CZ's new Lewis gun model download it here:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showt...80&start=80

 

Look for Monty CZ's post with the lewis.rar attachment....OR you can get the .bmp from the N17 Megapack. Drop the lewis.bmp into the N16 folder. (You may not have to do this if you have the Megapack already installed. I don't so I need the extra .bmp to get the gun texture to show up.)

 

That ought to do it. I don't think I've left anything out. If you have probs just post here.

 

 

Thanks Tailspin. Works perfectly.

 

And with Monty's mod, looks great.

Edited October 16, 2007 by peter01

[+NeverEnough 78]

Wow, from first discussion of a concept to a new model in about one day's time! Thanks to Monty, Christian and Tailspin for getting it done right now!

[+christian59 8]

hello

 

it's the N16 final data for me

 

add IA and corect muzle and light position

 

i hope it will be good for you too

 

you can make all you want with this data

 

have good fight

 

ps:can someone upload the N16 as complete aircraft please if all people are ok

[+christian59 8]

i have correct the damaged engine too