SM SPS-141 for Mig-21

[kukulino]

Hallo pilots

Thank you for interest on our Mig topics. We can make Migs closer to reality

 

I have problem. Well, I... gerald14 too, vrkuboy too, maybe Wrench too, maybe Fast Cargo too, and me too

 

We are looking for ECM container SM SPS-141 for Mig-21. You can read something about it in Mig-21/23 chaffs/flares topic: http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=23007

 

To make 3D model, which is close to real model, we need drawnings and the dimensions (length, width, diameter). So can anybody help us? We ( vrkuboy and me) tried find it for many times on internet, and no big success. Many poeple helped us too.

We have drawnings SPS-141 for Su-17/22. But no length, width, diameter dimensions.

 

SM SPS-141 (for Mig-21) we need for our Mig-21MA/R pack (gerald14 is working on this pack hard).

 

Here are some photos: http://www.ciromodels.com/SPS-141.htm

 

I sent mail to Mig-21 pilot. It will be helpfull, I hope.

 

I can not reply for nex two days. No internet will be in my area

 

Well, Mig fans or anybody help please :fans:

Edited November 23, 2007 by kukulino

[+Muesli]

Hello Kukulino,

 

You know.... the pod looks a helluvalot like a modified PTB-800 fuel tank....

 

Maybe it also uses the same dimensions, except of course the extra fairings and antennae!

 

 

Ciao mate!

 

 

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1122799/L/

Edited November 23, 2007 by muesli

[kukulino]

Hello Kukulino,

 

You know.... the pod looks a helluvalot like a modified PTB-800 fuel tank....

 

Maybe it also uses the same dimensions, except of course the extra fairings and antennae!

Ciao mate!

Hi muesli

I used 800l fuel tank from weapons pack in SM SPS-141 role. This is an improvisation. But it works good. 800l fueltank is a ittle bit bigger an longer than SM SPS-141 container.

 

I wrote abou this in Mig-21/23 chaffs/flares topic.

 

If we can not find or get SM SPS-141 drawnings, 800l fuel tank is workable as SM SPS-141 container.

THANX for interest and reply muesli

Edited November 23, 2007 by kukulino

[+nele]

Picture of "R" model (from www.airwar.ru);

 

SPS-141 is just one variant. The text says that containers are maked in letters (types "R" for SIGNIT, "D" for day photo, "N" for night photo).

 

"R"-SIGNIT devices Romb-4A and 4B, and AFA-39 photocamera for validation;

 

"D"-2xAFA-39 oblique, 4XAFA-39 planar cameras, slotted(?) AFA-5

 

"N"-UAFA-47, 188 photo-flares,

Other equipment that can be in the container:

"Sirena" active jammer;

Air-sampling device (nuke, gas particles...)

UHF communication retranslator.

 

Based on MiG-21PFM, other differences are two additional pylons (FT only), 340l header tank.

 

Self-defense: 2 R-3S or 2 UB-32, bombs, etc (on two pylons).

 

Introduced in 1965.

 

A question: please take a look of this -21:

"Sky corner" makes this as MiG-21S version ("Type 95") that was in production 1965-1968. Obvious difference is the external gunpack.

 

Note that M and MF are Types 96 and 96F.

 

The reason I am writing this is because I stumbled on one Polish site, where they state that MA is Polish designation for the WarPac version of MiG-21M of India , and that MA's are virtually undistinguishable from MF externally (after few overhauls, equipment was unified bar the engine).

 

All that covered wit pictures of what looks like MF, with a gun, and some close-ups of rear-fuselage and gear-covers (those were some "rivet-counters" )

 

So, although I also knew MA as early 4-pylon MiG besides R... this looks like the missing link.

[gerald14]

Picture of "R" model (from www.airwar.ru);

 

SPS-141 is just one variant. The text says that containers are maked in letters (types "R" for SIGNIT, "D" for day photo, "N" for night photo).

 

"R"-SIGNIT devices Romb-4A and 4B, and AFA-39 photocamera for validation;

 

"D"-2xAFA-39 oblique, 4XAFA-39 planar cameras, slotted(?) AFA-5

 

"N"-UAFA-47, 188 photo-flares,

Other equipment that can be in the container:

"Sirena" active jammer;

Air-sampling device (nuke, gas particles...)

UHF communication retranslator.

 

Based on MiG-21PFM, other differences are two additional pylons (FT only), 340l header tank.

 

Self-defense: 2 R-3S or 2 UB-32, bombs, etc (on two pylons).

 

Introduced in 1965.

 

A question: please take a look of this -21:

"Sky corner" makes this as MiG-21S version ("Type 95") that was in production 1965-1968. Obvious difference is the external gunpack.

 

Note that M and MF are Types 96 and 96F.

 

The reason I am writing this is because I stumbled on one Polish site, where they state that MA is Polish designation for the WarPac version of MiG-21M of India , and that MA's are virtually undistinguishable from MF externally (after few overhauls, equipment was unified bar the engine).

 

All that covered wit pictures of what looks like MF, with a gun, and some close-ups of rear-fuselage and gear-covers (those were some "rivet-counters" )

 

So, although I also knew MA as early 4-pylon MiG besides R... this looks like the missing link.

 

Thanks, nele but we know that info. Me and Kukulino are making a Mig-21Ma/R pack (czech) and we only need someone to make the SPS-141 pod and we are finish. Thanks!

[+nele]

Ok, I am slow this week

 

This is -141, another angle.

 

Maybe it will be of interest for you that Serbian AF still uses Mig-21M modified into recce aircraft (L-15M).

[FastCargo]

Best guess for the wing mounted version:

 

 

and for the centerline version:

 

 

I'll probably just make the LOD files, map them make a generic texture template and weapondata.ini entry for each then send it to you guys to for skinning and ini tweaking.

 

FastCargo

[+starfighter2]

Ok, I am slow this week

 

This is -141, another angle.

 

Maybe it will be of interest for you that Serbian AF still uses Mig-21M modified into recce aircraft (L-15M).

 

Nope - Serbian AF used it on Bis in recce role - R/MF variants are retired in 1998. Still, looking forward to this "little" addon. Very nice !!!

[+nele]

Yep, according to their site:

 

Quote:"Inventory of V-PVO comprises 31 fighter of the type MiG-21BIS (L-17), twin seater MiG-21UM (NL-16) and recce aircraft MiG-21M (L-15M) modified to carry a pod with side-looking KA-112A camera. 2 L-17 are used for aerial photography since 2004 with cameras installed in modified fuel tanks."

 

The site of Serbian AF looks current, but, "if they lied to me, I am lying to you"

[+starfighter2]

I didn't see any recce aircraft for years - only those 2 L-17 with camera's. Bis carry pods mostly - there are several "R" aircrafts on runways without flying status. Most of the remaining fleet are MiG-21bis.

[+nele]

It seems there is only one. Serial No. 22823. Modified from L-15 into L-15M recce. It looks it is early, gunless version?

 

What I didn't know is that "M" model was quite common (not that much in former Yugoslavia, but in WarPac). One readily distinuishable difference was the rearview mirror on the canopy and the "MA" sight (on later version with internal gun).

 

It alo seems that combination of 2x490l and 800l tank was not common for this model and was used for overflights only. There is more details about "M" performance on Bulgarian AF site at http://www.airforce-bg.com/mig21m.html . Might be interesting to take a look, it seems like it is taken from the manual for this version.

[+starfighter2]

Yes - there is one moddified L-15M - without flying status (repairs).

Recce role is taken mostly by J-22 Orao (recce version IJ-22 and INJ-22 - two planes for each version) from 2nd Recce Squadron "Trouble shooters" . This unit is from 98th. Airforce base.

Edited November 25, 2007 by starfighter2

[+nele]

So, it is just a material for the "bean counters". How sad. Probably no resource on R-11. And entire Middle East overhauled MiGs there once.

 

I hope those non-AB "Orao I" pack some good low-level cameras

[+starfighter2]

IJ-22 planes have quite good western equipment.

BTW - not that bad situation regarding MiG's Bis. Apart 31 currently flyable kites - there is 25 more which awaits repairs.

 

There will be 21's in Europe in years to come

[kukulino]

Best guess for the wing mounted version:

 

 

and for the centerline version:

 

 

I'll probably just make the LOD files, map them make a generic texture template and weapondata.ini entry for each then send it to you guys to for skinning and ini tweaking.

 

FastCargo

OOoo, gerald, look at these great models :fan_1:

 

THANK YOU FAST CARGO, THANK YOU AGAIN :cray:

 

Thank you guys for interest too

Edited November 26, 2007 by kukulino

[vrkuboy]

FAST CARGO YOU ARE

[+nele]

Small but interesting photo of SPS-141 mounted on the centerline;

 

And many more on

http://www.mig-21.de

(look under "equipment")

[kukulino]

Thanx nele

SM SPS-141 for Mig-21 was very interesting container. This container was mounted under last plane in flight. Another positions were danger, because there was chance to absorb (or suck in or haw can I say it) flares into engine for wingmans.

There was one container to cover all flight. We can do it too, but it is not very practical in game.

Primary role was use SPS-141 to jam Hawk radars. Well, we can see its function soon

 

SPS-141 works on 8,8 - 10,8 frequencies. So we can add JammerStrenght on 35.000000 maybe 40.000000

Look HERE!

Edited November 28, 2007 by kukulino

[gerald14]

Here you go! I am almost finish with the paint job!

[kukulino]

No more HAWKS and Chaparrals close to us

Edited December 1, 2007 by kukulino

[+Viggen]

No more HAWKS and Chaparrals close to us

 

 

And no more crashing into hills from evading and flying low and getting distracted!

[Wrench]

That looks damn good! Kudos to FC for the pod!!

 

Dail that puppy in, and ship it to the masses, I says!!

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[FastCargo]

Here you go! I am almost finish with the paint job!

 

You may want to tweak that ini entry I gave you with the pod model...I didn't put any ejection velocity on the chaff/flares because I wasn't sure what was good... also, the ejection point was totally a guess.

 

Just my .02...them flares look REALLY close to the fuselage... :) .

 

FastCargo

[gerald14]

yeah, I am fixing them but right now I am working on some thing else but I am finish with the paint job.

[+nele]

Uh, I cannot find any reference that "Gvozdika" contains flares... inasmuch, as Su-25 has separate flare ejectors.

 

I have power (20W), wavelength (3cm range)... If it was mixed ECM/flare container (unusual), what was the number of flares...?

 

Also, note that such ceterline limits MiG-21 to 6G's, and I kinda doubt it was jettisonable, as it required additional wiring on-21.