SORRY PEOPLE....

[+Tailspin 3]

I don't know what I was thinking. Most of my mods for First Eagles are based on other people's work. Those folks may not want it redistrubited beyond what they gave me permission to do. So please hold off on modding my mods until we see where everyone is on this. Thanks.

 

TS

[+Tailspin 3]

Ok. There will be restrictions on some of my mods that use certain other people's work. I have suspended those mods until I can revise the Readme files to reflect those restrictions. Not a big deal AFAIC. Anything I have created myself will be unrestricted but you'll still have to READ the README to make sure.

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

I think this is a litlle overratted, cause of givin people credits in the readme is a good choice... But if not... it`s free ware!! And we are ONE BIG comunity ...

[Wrench 9,848]

I think this is a litlle overratted, cause of givin people credits in the readme is a good choice... But if not... it`s free ware!! And we are ONE BIG comunity ...

 

You've obviously never been involved in the major pissing contests that goes on behind the scenes or the Infamous "Mod Wars".

 

TS is doing the correct thing. There are more things going here, than you can possibly know. Or imagine.

 

OTH, spelling "overrated" as overratted" might not be far from the truth

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557]

Yup you`re right... never understand what is the prob .. cause everyone work just for fun and why not work together?! ... human being a mystery

[+Tailspin 3]

Thanks Kevin. Actually the rift between some folks in the mod community has been much improved lately and I'm not about to be a party to making it worse again. In this case its not really going to change how it was before a lot of us decided to freely share OUR work. All I'm going to do is rewrite the Readmes to make it perfectly clear to everyone what is what and what you can and can't use without permission. Bottom line: I respect the right of anyone to decide how they want their work to be handled. If I use their work then I will abide by their wishes. I don't have a problem with that at all.

[column5 63]

Actually the rift between some folks in the mod community has been much improved lately

 

Only on the surface...only on the surface...some continue to seethe and plot and we must be vigilant lest daggers creep into our backs.

[+Tailspin 3]

Only on the surface...only on the surface...some continue to seethe and plot and we must be vigilant lest daggers creep into our backs.

 

 

:ph34r: I said some.

[+Dave 2,322]

Only on the surface...only on the surface...some continue to seethe and plot and we must be vigilant lest daggers creep into our backs.

 

Wasn't it Col Mustard in the library, with the candle holder?

[Stwa 18]

Only on the surface...only on the surface...some continue to seethe and plot and we must be vigilant lest daggers creep into our backs.

 

I'll have to admit that I know very little about the back rooms of the modding community. In fact, if never occurred to me that they existed. But through correspdance with others here at COMBAT ACE, over time, I am receiveing an education at least.

 

Generally, I would expect a certain percentage of that behavior when money is involved. But on the surface, I cannot detect any money. But there must be some money somewhere, or the expectation of some money. If not, then an infantile culture of behavior is perhaps perpetrated by the anonomous nature of the internet. I am probably giving this too much thought.

 

But its been a while since I looked at the EULA for Wings over Vietnam and Europe, and if I remember correctly then, any material that originates from these games (modified or otherwise), or is produced by tools distributed by BG or TW (I assume), and subsequently disributed in the public domain, becomes the inttelecutal property of Bold Games. Or so, I thought. Maybe Bold Games isn't around anymore. I am not sure.

[column5 63]

But its been a while since I looked at the EULA for Wings over Vietnam and Europe, and if I remember correctly then, any material that originates from these games (modified or otherwise), or is produced by tools distributed by BG or TW (I assume), and subsequently disributed in the public domain, becomes the inttelecutal property of Bold Games. Or so, I thought. Maybe Bold Games isn't around anymore. I am not sure.

 

I don't know off the top of my head but that does not sound like something TK would have allowed.

[Stwa 18]

I don't know off the top of my head but that does not sound like something TK would have allowed.

 

 

Perhaps, but maybe the inverse is true as well. Maybe that was the only agreement Bold Games would allow. You never know, but it should be easy enough to check. I think this EULA was printed in the original WOV manual. Someone would have to retrieve one, and see if it is actually there and says what I mentioned, and then determine if it still applies.

 

In regards to permissions and ownership. Perhaps posters should be much more specific as to what they think they "own" when they post something. I assume ownership conveying the rights to permission, etc.. Perhaps a community policy should describe a standard for specifying ownership, and this could be included in a read-me file, for a given upload.

 

In regards to add-on terrains, I am definately no expert, but I have heard of situations, where "authors" claim ownership of HFD files that were created with the Terrain Editor. (a TW software) tool. In the case of HFD files, these required USCG DEM files as input, that may be in the public domain, which in turn were processed into HFD files by a user pressing the correct sequence of buttons.

 

Also, regarding some game INI files, perhaps some have claimed ownership of synatax, procedural sequences, formatting, defined and constant patterns, and acculuated ideas or thought, all elements thay maybe combined to form the original files, which were of course created by Third Wire, not the "creators" of a specified terrain.

Edited March 3, 2008 by Stwa

[Wrench 9,848]

I've always gotten the feeling the TK wanted people to mod the sim...to see how far it could be expanded, "peaked and tweeked" and, literally, stretch it to the breaking point.

 

I'll have to dig out my SF box, and see if the EULA is in the printed manual.

 

OK...got this out of the WoE pdf manual (you know, that folder that no one looks at...)

 

LICENSE AGREEMENT

PLEASE READ CAREFULLY. BY USING OR INSTALLING THIS SOFTWARE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO

BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS LICENSE. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS,

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Editor and End-user Variations. <-- edit: this MAY be Section 7

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All trademarks mentioned in this manual are property of their respective owners.

YOU MAY NOT DISTRIBUTE THIS VERSION OF THE SOFTWARE.

© 2006 Destineer Publishing Corp. WINGS OVER EUROPE is a trademark of Destineer, Inc. Bold

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Interesting to note, that "Section 7" seems to be missing??? see "edit in red above"

 

Wrench

kevin stein

[column5 63]

Boilerplate. I'll take this into account the next time I make "levels" for WOV.

[Stwa 18]

Boilerplate. I'll take this into account the next time I make "levels" for WOV.

 

 

Yes, boilerplate indeed, but the language is sufficient to convey to the user/reader, that game variations, are in fact not owned, or held in liscence, by others, the creators of said variations notwithstanding.

[column5 63]

The problem with using Destineer's boilerplate to make that statement is that ThirdWire is the actual holder of the rights to the core game files, including many files which ThirdWire sells in other products not produced by Destineer, including SFP1 and WOI. Plus, no one is ever going to enfoce it and TK says he supports both freeware and payware that leverage the "open" portions of his game.

 

So I'm not sure exaclty what your point is...but...I agree with you that we can't take ThirdWire's files and "re-license" them in a legal sense because we don't actually own them. This is really about how we are going to operate as a community, not a legal matter.

[Stwa 18]

The problem with using Destineer's boilerplate to make that statement is that ThirdWire is the actual holder of the rights to the core game files, including many files which ThirdWire sells in other products not produced by Destineer, including SFP1 and WOI. Plus, no one is ever going to enfoce it and TK says he supports both freeware and payware that leverage the "open" portions of his game.

 

So I'm not sure exaclty what your point is...but...I agree with you that we can't take ThirdWire's files and "re-license" them in a legal sense because we don't actually own them. This is really about how we are going to operate as a community, not a legal matter.

 

Since we are seeing just a single document, it is generally not wise to jump to too many conclusions. However, if this were the only document, then it seems to contradict your assumption of Third Wire as the party that binds a liscence with any third party user. Third Wire perhaps is just the developer of said software. At least for WOV and WOE.

 

It would be a good idea for the community to adhear to the letter of the law, and enforce, (i.e. not neglect or ignore), the legally binding EULA. Arguments are in a sense posturing, the intensity of the argument is driven by what motivation?

 

The point(s) could be many, but he who does not own, or does not hold liscence, cannot demand or expect a right of permission.

[+Dave 2,322]

Ok so what are we saying here? Please enlighten me.

[column5 63]

However, if this were the only document, then it seems to contradict your assumption of Third Wire as the party that binds a liscence with any third party user. Third Wire perhaps is just the developer of said software. At least for WOV and WOE.

 

If you are concerned about this issue, you really should post on the ThirdWire forum becuause TK is the only person that can give a definitive answer. We should not be speculating on it, regardless of how interesting it may be.