B-52 Formations

[Foxendown]

I recently bought a copy of WOV and I'm having a great time with it, but I've just flown a single mission escorting B-52s and they don't keep formation, in fact their flying is wild. Watching from the cockpit as these huge aircraft stand on one wing (just to stay in formation, no enemies around) is an immersion killer. Sorry if this is a newb question, but is there a fix for this? Tried searching but didn't turn anything up. I've seen the same behaviour in FE and asked a similar question before but didn't get anywhere with it. I've noticed swooping behaviour in other aircraft too (but generally not as bad as in FE), but somehow it's less tolerable in large bombers and transports. I'd be grateful for any help

[+Fubar512]

Short of a complete overhaul of the B-52's flight model, there's no proper fix, although you can try doubling or even quadrupling the pitch damper value in its data.ini file.

[+MigBuster]

Was hoping the new patch may improve some things

 

You could try downloading this Mod here:

 

http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/CharlesEAW/sfpage.html

 

Its for WW2 bomber formations - Ive no idea if it stops them banking too much - but you could probably take what hes done and see if you can change the US Bomber formation to your liking.

[Foxendown]

Thanks for the suggestions-I'll give both a try. Taking the first, I extract the B-52D_DATA.INI file put it in the relevant aircraft folder and then edit the values in the FlightControl Section? Currently I've got

 

PitchDamper=1.0

RollDamper=0.5

YawDamper=0.4

 

so playing with these may help (just checking I've got it right)?

[+Fubar512]

Just for grins (and since you're using them as AI birds), try:

 

 

PitchDamper=8.0

RollDamper=4.0

YawDamper=1.0

 

And see what happens.

[Foxendown]

That did it! I set up a flight of 12 B-52s in KMD with a 4 ship escort (because the mission generator doesn't seem to create B-52 flights all that often). They're still pitching a bit even with those values but it's good enough for me (and it looks OK from my F4 cockpit which is my main concern rather than how it looks in external views). Not sure whether there will be any undesirable side effects (e.g just sitting there as a SAM heads straight for them) but I'll see how it goes. Anyway that's bearable compared with Buffs stunt flying! :-)

 

Thanks for your help with this.

[JFM]

That did it! I set up a flight of 12 B-52s in KMD with a 4 ship escort (because the mission generator doesn't seem to create B-52 flights all that often). They're still pitching a bit even with those values but it's good enough for me (and it looks OK from my F4 cockpit which is my main concern rather than how it looks in external views). Not sure whether there will be any undesirable side effects (e.g just sitting there as a SAM heads straight for them) but I'll see how it goes. Anyway that's bearable compared with Buffs stunt flying! :-)

 

Thanks for your help with this.

 

Foxendown, exactly which of the suggestions did you follow? I want to give it a try.

[Foxendown]

I went for the changed values in the B-52D_DATA.INI file (those suggested earlier in the thread by Fubar512): it seemed to calm them own a lot, though I didn't track them for that long. I'd be interested to know how you get on with this. When I get time I'll build a larger test mission for B-52s in KMD and take them all the way to defended targets, but I'm busy playing Rolling Thunder (from both sides :-) ) at the moment.

[SandyC]

I know this was dealt with to your satisfaction some time ago but I have found a total solution if you are making your own missions. I tried the ini. fix but it did not make a great difference. It is great to have massed B-52 strikes but I have found that with anything more than two ships, the following bombers in a flight of 4 or more spray their ordnance all over North Vietnam. They drop their bombloads at the same time as the lead aircraft. Also, with the wild roll in the aircraft, the bombs come down randomly across miles of real estate.

 

I have set up a nine ship attack in three cells of three. I set them up as single aircraft US bomber 'formations' in KMD, then clone the first aircraft twice, then have them take off 20 seconds apart (15 would probably be better but I have not tried that yet). This also gets them off the ground quicker than a multi-aircraft flight setup of 4 or 8 bombers. I then adjust the flight paths so that they are very, very slightly separated. That way, each aircraft flies straight and level but in 'formation' and bombs the target right on the money. To get a good spread of bombs, I adjusted the objective point slightly for each aircraft for an airfield attack during Linebacker II - one on the runway, one on the main hangar, one on the windsock, etc. Otherwise they literally bomb the same craters as the preceding aircraft. The rain of fire on the airfield was fantastic to watch from my escorting Wild Weasel F-105G. The lead aircraft walked 24 bombs across the field, lighting the fuel tanks. They made a great aiming point for the follow-up cells.

 

It is a bit finicky initiallyt but you quickly get the hang of it and the results are definitely worth it in terms of immersion! The Buffs experienced few problems with SAMs as the WW flights kept them busy.

[Foxendown]

Brilliant! I will certainly try this out. The *ini file edit seemed to work up to a point, in that seen from afar (i.e. from an F4 cockpit) the formations look OK, but of course if you watch them for a while in external views you realise that is only an impression (and I hadn't even got to the point of thinking about how they deliver their ordnance). I've not used the cloning feature of KMD before so I will experiment with that too, in FE as well as WOV. Problem is having enough time: KMD is a great editor but designing your own missions is so time-consuming ( I used to spend ages building missions in IL2 and ended up with no time to fly any :-) ), so at the moment I tend to just load up my current campaign in WOV and fly missions.

[Jug]

I know this was dealt with to your satisfaction some time ago but I have found a total solution if you are making your own missions. I tried the ini. fix but it did not make a great difference. It is great to have massed B-52 strikes but I have found that with anything more than two ships, the following bombers in a flight of 4 or more spray their ordnance all over North Vietnam. They drop their bombloads at the same time as the lead aircraft. Also, with the wild roll in the aircraft, the bombs come down randomly across miles of real estate.

 

I have set up a nine ship attack in three cells of three. I set them up as single aircraft US bomber 'formations' in KMD, then clone the first aircraft twice, then have them take off 20 seconds apart (15 would probably be better but I have not tried that yet). This also gets them off the ground quicker than a multi-aircraft flight setup of 4 or 8 bombers. I then adjust the flight paths so that they are very, very slightly separated. That way, each aircraft flies straight and level but in 'formation' and bombs the target right on the money. To get a good spread of bombs, I adjusted the objective point slightly for each aircraft for an airfield attack during Linebacker II - one on the runway, one on the main hangar, one on the windsock, etc. Otherwise they literally bomb the same craters as the preceding aircraft. The rain of fire on the airfield was fantastic to watch from my escorting Wild Weasel F-105G. The lead aircraft walked 24 bombs across the field, lighting the fuel tanks. They made a great aiming point for the follow-up cells.

 

It is a bit finicky initiallyt but you quickly get the hang of it and the results are definitely worth it in terms of immersion! The Buffs experienced few problems with SAMs as the WW flights kept them busy.

 

If anyone cares, the Buff is not known for its maneuverability, so formation flying in the Buff is different than formation flying in other aircraft. There is always a 500 foot vertical separation between aircraft, so the formation is Big. A three ship takes up 1500'. Sounds like the FM is correct for the Buff if it is floundering all over the sky trying to stay in the classic fingertip formation. A Buff can't get there and can't stay there. Believe me, I have tried in the real aircraft and it is exhausting/dangerous. A typical formation is a three ship, line astern, separated by 500 feet. Tightening up the formation is probably the wrong way to go. You just have to give that big bird room to fly.

[SandyC]

Thanks for the real life information on the Buffs. By setting up cells of 3 as single aircraft, it is possible to get the formation you describe. I have gone back into KMD, reduced the separation on takeoff to 15 seconds and got them flying line astern. I have also adjusted the flying heights to give the 500' separation you describe. Just to try to be authentic, are you able to tell me if the lead aircraft flew highest, lowest or in the middle of the cell? May as well get this one dead right. Thanks again.