WIP #1 - The Game

[+peter01 2]

Have gotten the EP finally to the point where I am no longer making mods to FMs, AI, and a myriad of other things. Its good, maybe as good as it gets.

 

Its for the Unpatched EP Version (Oct 2007), and yes I know, there are some improvements in patch (very minor IMO), just not enough for me to redo stuff. It would take many months, and things/FMs will continue to change with new patches.

 

Its been a long haul, 8 months. And its finished, so its not exactly WIP, but that'll do for a topic title lol.

 

FE just excels in the dogfight experience, its just a blast. Many other things of course that can be improved in the game, but whether TK does this in any major way is unlikely - sounds, campaigns, the usual gripes. And the big thing of course is all the great planes that have been done by our talented modders.

 

Anyway thought I'd post in seperate threads what I have done before uploading in a couple of weeks - cleanups, testing installs, doing readmes take time. There's a fair bit I want to say, so I'll start new threads covering particular aspects over the next week or two. And its somewhat complex too.

 

Feel free to comment.

Edited June 28, 2008 by peter01

[+Baltika 84]

Sounds fascinating - you know how to pique our interest

 

I for one am looking forward to what you have in store. Your decision to draw the proverbial line in the sand is completely understandable, and I think most of us who run FE are used to different levels of installs for different aspects we enjoy. I have been having fun with FE+EP+Patch, but that horizon fog is making me twitchy to roll back a couple of levels

 

Anyway, good to hear from you, and

 

S!

[deep 5]

Excellent news! Thank you!

[+peter01 2]

Thanks, sure you will enjoy it :).

 

You know, it took about 9 months for me to get the FMs working for the original FE (mainly due to fixing the atrocious AI), and now 8 months for the Oct EP (tricky bit here is the FMs are very sensitive). And thats not dabbling, I spend almost as much time on this as on work.

 

I had decided not to do anything more a couple of months ago when the FMs changed in the April patch, but a couple of things changed my mind. Mainly relating to playing RB3D.

 

I reinstalled RB3D, and all the major super patches. Its still a great game, and runs very well on my computer with newer glide emulation packages. Had loads of fun. But I have 4 different installs of this game - its a small footprint and fires up quick, so no issue. But if I want to fly loads of planes, its WFSP - but Fms and AI are only passable. Some interesting german ones, ROTJ, but AI and FMs are variable. Good AI (but not so good FMs IMO), original HASP. Good balance in FMs and AI but fewer planes is FCJ. Yes I know you can adjust ai levels, but its a blanket type approach, some planes are worse as you increase the AI setting.

 

So its all about choices and compromises, balancing the quality/number of the planes, the quality of ai/ fms to me, maybe bugs/minor improvements as well.

 

It also occurred to me that TK probably has always changed the flight model with every patch (lol can't seem to help himself in this regard). Its just that for jet planes, the changes probably usually are't that noticeable, they are nowhere near as sensitive as the FE FMs. So it'll continue.

 

And I wanted to get at least one game and version where ai and fms and have loads of planes work for me - hence, came back to the Unpatched FE. And I'm glad I did, FE EP is very good now to me, lots of fine tuning/redoing on FMs AI campaigns.

 

BTW, don't want to be critical of OFF, but personally can't play that one. The developers are dedicated, talented, enthusiastic WW1 simmers (unlike TK unfortunately, wrt WW1 enthusiasm) but the FMs and the AI don't work well at all, major step backwards even from RB3D. Its the CFS3 engine thingy - I tried doing a couple of FMs to see if I could improve things, but couldn't. Maybe phase 3? I'll buy it, I'm a WW1 buff, but I'm not optimistic....it will have all the great extras, but ai, fms, bugs and I'll need to buy a new puter?

 

All the above is JMO of course.

Edited June 29, 2008 by peter01

[+sinbad 27]

Right on Peter01.

 

" to most of these views. Another reason to favor FE is the fact that we can all tinker a bit to improve and tweak the sim we fly. I was disappointed by OFF when I found that the RE-8 could outclimb and out run the F DVII. There is a lot to admire , and I am on the list to buy Phase 3, but FE is where I spend my time. I have removed the OFF install.

 

I still keep the RB data, but find the FM and combat there boring. Perhaps if I got effectively into on line play that might still be fun, but I don't really have the time to do that, so here I am.

 

I hope to be able to make a contribution to FE to expand our horizons a bit, and the work you do is a steady encouragement.

 

Thanks again.

 

sinbad

[J18Dread 0]

Peter01

 

Eagerly await the new FM/DMs.

 

Suggest you give DM's Cold War patch for RB3D a try. The St. Mihael and TerraNova versions, while primarily for MMP, are the most playable flight sims out there IMHO. May be too energetic to be realistic, but certainly the most fun. If that energy could be transported to FE, I would be one happy camper.

 

There used to be a timing change for single play that accelerated play, but I lost it and cannot find it again. Anyway, it did not work for online play, but did make Instant Action and Single Missions more exciting.

 

Again, thanks for all of your work on our behalf. Try Cold War 4.1, it works with ROTJ, or it did several months ago.

[+ojcar 157]

To make clear some things:

In RB3D the AI is the same in both Hell Angels and WFP. Its the same AI that the original game, not more, nor less. You can change between some FMs and DMs, but in latest versions, the standard are the Greybeard FMs (and I think Zintek DM). They are the same FM and DM in Hells Angels and WFP. I advise you to use FCJ control panel and set the enemy AI at 40% with latest versions. It has a very good balance. With more AI%, there are too many aerobatics with the aces and they are prone to accidents. AI higher than 66% gives the AI pilots too overcontrol and (specially in early planes) too many accidents

[+peter01 2]

To make clear some things:

In RB3D the AI is the same in both Hell Angels and WFP. Its the same AI that the original game, not more, nor less. You can change between some FMs and DMs, but in latest versions, the standard are the Greybeard FMs (and I think Zintek DM). They are the same FM and DM in Hells Angels and WFP. I advise you to use FCJ control panel and set the enemy AI at 40% with latest versions. It has a very good balance. With more AI%, there are too many aerobatics with the aces and they are prone to accidents. AI higher than 66% gives the AI pilots too overcontrol and (specially in early planes) too many accidents

 

can't understand how the ai can be the same if the FMs are different, and with extra planes say in WFSP, what do the ai use? the ai must fly the fms designed for the game

 

i like all the work done by that great bunch on RBD3, and forever grateful for several years of my best time with flight sims. you can use the same FMs for HASP and WFSP, but i prefer not to, because again, the ai are different. so fms for WFSP are greybeards, hasp, don't know but different, tried GBs for hasp, but don't use them maybe because i use them for WFSP. maybe they are his, but they are then earlier, different

 

i played around endlessly with ai setting, and I agree lower is often better. but its a compromise or balance, because its one setting for all the ai.

 

having said all that, RB3D is still great. Its just which version of what (including FMs), what is the best ai setting for different ones....and in the end each has its own strengths and weaknesses. and FE is rapidly becoming like that too

Edited June 30, 2008 by peter01

[+ojcar 157]

The AI is the same. It uses the same manouvres for all the planes. This is the problem. It flies the same routines in the Eindekker that the D-VII. And is the same problem in all games. In IL-2 it flies the same the FW-190 that the Zero. In Thirdwire series you can include a series of AI commands in the data of a new plane. In RB3D you can't.

And I repeat: Greybeard is still making FMs for both HA and WFP. With the same version of FM, and Albatros DII flies exactly the same in HA and WFP. Obviously, there are more planes in WFP, but in the "common" planes, the FMs are the same.

Ah, Greybeard uses NACA data in his FMs (if available) and uses some advanced aerodinamical formulation in the rudders, ailerons, engines, etc, to give them the most historically correct data, so they are very well researched FMs.

 

Thirdwire series has the advantage of giving some AI commands in the plane's FM (as in the new Sabers and MiG-15s). With a little time, FE will be the true RB3D successor. Keep on the hard work! (By the way, I love your work, Peter)

[+sinbad 27]

Right. I keep hoping that Greybeard can be recruited to FE. I think his work would be much more rewarding here.

 

sinbad

Edited June 30, 2008 by sinbad

[+peter01 2]

Yes. Maybe someone should ask him :) ?

 

It did seem at one time that many RB3D developers were interested in FE, but the initial version was so lite, in every way, perhaps targeted for short term sales rather than long term interest.

 

Things have changed enormously, we have learnt a lot, its eminently moddable...but, you know....first impressions.

 

Its a pity, FE coulda been the one...with more interest, support and then sales. Its now got many of the really difficult basics right, things that most games don't get right - TK has made major improvements in the EP. But sounds like wind sounds, engine gravity effects, full range of rotary sound effects for example make a big difference, so easy to do, every game has them, but not this one. Campaign improvements (even a "Go to next waypoint" command), balloon damage, ground objects...easy I'd say. Even for a one man show.

 

Maybe it still can be?

 

Not complaining, I'm pretty happy with it myself, but, can't help thinking what was possible...

Edited July 1, 2008 by peter01