SAM map...

[Lt. James Cater 62]

 

I thought of this after dealing with the situation up north countless times and suffering heavy losses.

 

Since the real life pilots had access to intel about enemy defenses i figured i'd do the same. From experience i pretty much knew the locations of a number of SAM sites, but the Recon flights blew my mind! For those i took an F-4D loaded with ECM up about 35-4000ft and flew two routes. One inland from Vihn heading past Haiphong and the second swinging way past Yen Bai to center on Thud ridge. That one took me directly over Hanoi and were the fireworks on display!

 

Using a screen shot i took sometime earlier, i was able to locate the SAM sites pretty accuratly. I was really surprised by the number and location of some of them. with it came the realization that certain areas could only be approaced with extreme caution if one wanted to complete ones' tour.

 

Since at the time i made this map i worked at a department store i went to the photo kiosk and made myself a photo copy. Best $3 i ever spent!

 

In WOV it's helped me inmeasurably and so i hope it helps you too!

[GreyCap 0]

Nice job Lt. James Cater!

That's one thing I find seriously lacking in the Third Wire sims is some preflight Intel! I'm still a little surprised nobody has modded that, unless I missed it and there's a preflight intel mod out there.

[Viper6 3]

Thank you for your time and effort! The SAM situation in WoV is insane! I even tried to mod my F-4 to carry a crazy amount of Chaff but to no avail it seems we can not change the vanilla campaings or birds used in them alas this will be helpful.

[markkyle66 0]

For those i took an F-4D loaded with ECM up about 35-4000ft and flew two routes. One inland from Vihn heading past Haiphong and the second swinging way past Yen Bai to center on Thud ridge. That one took me directly over Hanoi and were the fireworks on display!

 

Nice Map! The standing rule for AF pilots at the time was to generally keep the AC above 4000' AGL to avoid AAA/Anti-aircraft guns. That obviously changed with the mission though. Came across that in an article about F-100F's

[Lt. James Cater 62]

The standing rule for AF pilots at the time was to generally keep the AC above 4000' AGL to avoid AAA/Anti-aircraft guns. That obviously changed with the mission though. Came across that in an article about F-100F's

 

From years of research on the conflict i know about the altitude limit.

 

Having been shot down by low level AAA about 3-4 times and being shot up numerous others i should know better than to be below in certain areas. I did a threat about high altitude flak a while ago and despite the testimony of other pilots i still regard it as harmless. . As you go below 4500 ft you are getting into deep trouble in areas up in Packs 5 and 6. There is also an area south of Vihn i call "The Arrowhead" which has some of the nastiest flak in North Vietnam. Granted, while flying Huns out of Da Nang on routine missions i always tried to haul along a CBU or two and pay this place a quick visit.

Edited August 14, 2008 by Lt. James Cater

[Bulldog 0]

Thank you for your time and effort! The SAM situation in WoV is insane! I even tried to mod my F-4 to carry a crazy amount of Chaff but to no avail it seems we can not change the vanilla campaings or birds used in them alas this will be helpful.

 

Yes, A campaign in WOV can be a bit difficult... I have yet to this date finish one in Rolling Thunder, and only have finished one in Linebacker1... but it may be why I keep returning to WOV...maybe I'm a glutton for punishment...but no other sim in this series makes me think what KAHUNAS our boys had to fly these missions over Vietnam.

 

Oh yes, I do have a custom campaign I made myself I did finish in WOV (CVG-16 '67...yes John McCain's tour....and I did it in a A-4!!!) but I have some issues on it to figure out out before I can foist this thing on the public, besides I seem to remember someone was doing this one at some point so if you were and going to tell me other wise stayed tuned...if there's interest I will work further on it.

 

Thank you for your efforts Lt. James Cater!

Edited August 14, 2008 by Bulldog

[Echarlie 0]

I must confess I have cheated.

Since I mostly fly air to air and dont like having to dodge multiple SAM's while trying to tangel with the mig17's, I have an edited version of the Targets.ini were I changed all the SAM batteries that appear before 1967 to AAA. (except those in Hanoi and Haiphong. I still have standards)

 

Actually I dont think its cheating that much cuz the map is only 2/3 scale and the range of the SA-2 is still full scale, that makes the defences a bit more concentrated then maybe they should be.

Also since each SAM batterie has 5 entries (4 launchers and the radar) I see ALOT more flak. Still VERY dangerous down low.

And from what I understand, the SAM situation was not quite so bad in the early years 65-66.

Come 1967 though and things really heat up.

 

I did the same thing to the stock desert terrain but I changed ALL the SAM batteries to AAA. I call it "Fighter Town". It gives me a place to fly my own air superiority campains without having to deal so much with the air defences.

 

EagleCharlie

[Lt. James Cater 62]

I was reading my original post yesterday and realized i made a very serious error.

 

I didn't go in at 3500-4000. I was at 35 to 40,000ft. That extra zero makes a lot of difference. I had that F-4 jammed with ECM pods and loaded with full tanks that i only dropped after the first SAM site launched one one at me. The runs were also made at full military power, any slower would have been suicidal even with ECM (why take a chance?).

[MAKO69 186]

I was reading my original post yesterday and realized i made a very serious error.

 

I didn't go in at 3500-4000. I was at 35 to 40,000ft. That extra zero makes a lot of difference. I had that F-4 jammed with ECM pods and loaded with full tanks that i only dropped after the first SAM site launched one one at me. The runs were also made at full military power, any slower would have been suicidal even with ECM (why take a chance?).

 

Great map Cater I have been using it a lot making my own waypoints ( for some reason the games points bring you right over them somtimes hmm)as to avoid them many thanks.

 

P.S. 3500-4000ft would be pretty busy flying

Edited August 26, 2008 by MAKO69

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Great map Cater I have been using it a lot making my own waypoints ( for some reason the games points bring you right over them somtimes hmm)as to avoid them many thanks.

 

P.S. 3500-4000ft would be pretty busy flying

 

The stock waypoints given are suicidal in my opinion. They almost always lead you into the worst of the defenses up north.

 

I have some stuff that i thought about and wrote out for WOV some months ago. Perhaps i should put it in a thread here to see the reaction. As far as the map goes, i took a whole bunch of screen shots while the SAMS were coming up en mass and was then able to locate the sites on the map. My copy is on photo stock that i had made by taking the info on a flashdrive to my job.

 

Things really changed after i got it.

 

I'm really glad that the map has been of use to you. I was hoping to make some contribution to this site in some kind of way and that map was the best thing i had.