Rhodesia - 1980's

[gregair 0]

Some thoughts.....

 

What about:

 

Retired SAAF Sabre 6's

 

South Africa was still building Impalas through to the end of the 70's / early 80's so selling some of the older aircraft to the Rhoadies should not have been a problem, Some ex SAAF or new build Impala MK 1 & MK 2's, would make the most sense, good coin aircraft that SAAF used effectively.

These also coming from a neighboring friendly government (SA) who regularly helped Rhodesia with aircraft and crews and aircrew training, this would have given them newish aircraft with full technical support close at hand.

 

I agree that the ex Portuguese G-91's also make good sense.

 

If we consider being a little less historically accurate then the Pucara for FAC and Light COIN?

 

Sa,ar and Mystere 4 or Super Mystere would be cool or what about Neshers from Israel that could be operated with South African technical support as its systems / engine would be mostly Identical to SAAF Mirage 3 fleet?

 

Well done with your choice of campaign, Southern Africa is a much ignored area that has interesting aircraft, terrain and history.

I hope someone does a Southern Angola type terrain soon!

 

Here are some Southern African aircraft skins I have been working on, all could be applicable to the campaign, eg SAAF Mirages provided top cover to Rhodesian Canberras flying strikes into Angola on occasion, SAAF Canberras joined Rhodesian Canberras in various strikes into Zambia an Mozanbique

 

 

All are still Works in progress and missing panel lines, details, correct markings etc so please don't be too critical!!!!

 

Mozambique Mig-21 (my skin)

 

South African Mirage F1AZ (No F1AZ available yet so its an CZ painted like an AZ)

 

South African Impala MK1 (No complete Impala MK2 available yet) (My skin)

 

Botswana CF-5A (Modified skin)

 

Angolan Mig-21 (Cammo from Marcfighters with markings added)

 

Angolan Mig-23ML in three different cammos (Angolan Mig-23 used a wide range of cammo's). (All 3 are my skins)

[gregair 0]

That's right. That's the Lynx. They had a couple of rocket pods under the wings, and twin Browning .303s in a pod mounted above the wing, on either side of the cabin.

 

Meanwhile - this is one I did with the SF2 Hunter FGA9 as modded by Spinners, using a template I downloaded here. If I'm going to release it, I'll go from scratch, as I prefer to use my own templates. It still needs the ejection seat markings and the serial numbers, but that's all. Very few operational aircraft carried any markings other than the s/n.

 

 

Wow that Hunter looks awsome!

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I have decided to go with the G-91 over the A-4 as it makes far more sense.

 

I have already knocked out all the "easy" stuff.

 

I have a pilot picture pack using actual official RhAF photos.

Music for different screens is selected. (John Edmond and Clem Tholet selections)

Nation ini

Rhodesian Medals, however I need to do better research on what ones were Air Force specific

Rhodesian T-55 skin for E Sqdrn

Skin for RLI, RAR, and Terr infantry.

 

I have started on the terrain, but as an amateur this is going slow, yes Westland Farm will be included :yes:

 

I also like the idea of slowly involving more Southern African air forces.

 

The Israeli and French A/C are a great idea, please keep the discussion up, and if anyone has better back story ideas or ideas for scripted missions or what to add in dynamic campaigns, please don't be shy.

[ndicki 22]

Nice looking aircraft there!

 

I have SAAF Springbok castles and Springbok roundels and Harvard-type trainer decals available, if anyone's interested.

 

I actually did a 2 Sqn SAAF skin for the Sabre - it's here among the Sabre skins, but it's for Korea. I meant to get around to doing an SA-based one, but never got around to it.

 

Actually, RhAF Sabres might be a bit of a backward step. In most respects, they were not as good as the Hunter (just to start with) and I would imagine that spares, after X years in SAAF service, would have been a problem, despite the RhAF's reputation for excellence in innovation and maintenance - often 100% availability. Something which peeved the RAF...

 

The Hunter was perfectly good at it's job, and easily available. Ex-Jordan, Belgium, or any number of users who might sell them on if offered the usual dodgy end-user certificate. So I'd keep them. Anyway, Rhodesia was fast approaching bankruptcy, so replacing ALL the aircraft is too much. Just the Ginas to replace Vampires, and that shoulkd be OK... My view, anyway.

 

I want to test the skinning techniques I use in CFS3 for SF, so bear with me - that Hunter has a LONG way to go. Don't even mention the Spit! In both cases, I'd need permission from the makers, anyway.

 

If I get inspired, I'll fiddle round with the Gina, too.

[charlielima 328]

My first thot was AMXs but they were not available until the late 80s. What about F-8Es and F-8Js operated by a, ah, reputable contractor? Cannon armed Sabres / Furys, and Ginas make sense.

:ph34r: CL

Edited March 1, 2009 by charlielima

[ndicki 22]

My first thot was AMXs but they were not available until the late 80s. What about F-8Es and F-8Js operated by a, ah, reputable contractor? Cannon armed Sabres / Furys, and Ginas make sense.

:ph34r: CL

 

I'd avoid American-built aircraft. They simply don't correspond, with the exception of the F-5, to African conditions or needs. SAAF dropped the Sabre from front-line use in the mid-1970s AFAIK, so it's true that they might have become available for export, except that they were kept on as advanced trainers, and not sold on - so I think if we stick with pretty much the stuff that was already there, namely for the RhAF, Hunters, Canberras and Daks, and for the SAAF, Mirage IIICZs and F1s (AZ and CZ), and Canberras, Daks and Impalas, we're there. The only one I'd think of bringing in is the G-94-R4 from ex-Portuguese stocks. I'm already on the skin, and need to modify the loadouts to take the right kind of weapons for the scenario. Not easy, since I'm in SF2, and can't add new weps yet... Obviously, the people opposite have the usual selection of Sino-Soviet junk!

 

Meanwhile, is anyone looking at vehicles? There is a major problem there. Yesterday I took out a number of Centurions using the .50 cal Brownings on the Gina. Clearly not right.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I just took a break from the nightmare the terrain building is giving me...

 

Now I am working on compiling the weapons, Nigel do you have a good idea of what ordnance was/would be used? I know in the campaign I am going to set available numbers pretty low, and supply should be set on "limited" to make the player watch his ammo usage, just as the Forces had to.

[charlielima 328]

IAI Neshers and Kfirs then?

:ph34r: CL

[ndicki 22]

I just took a break from the nightmare the terrain building is giving me...

 

Now I am working on compiling the weapons, Nigel do you have a good idea of what ordnance was/would be used? I know in the campaign I am going to set available numbers pretty low, and supply should be set on "limited" to make the player watch his ammo usage, just as the Forces had to.

 

Grief, now that will be fun. Half of it was home-made at the best of times - golf bombs and so on. I'll have to research this, so stay away from the subject for a bit! I have a book called "Pride of Eagles" by Beryl Salt. About 1000 pages in Letter format - it's the complete operational history of the SRAF/RRAF/RhAF from day one until Independence. A lot to work through, but it's a pretty decent place to start!

Edited March 1, 2009 by ndicki

[ndicki 22]

www.rhodesianservices.org/user/image/golfbomb.doc

http://www.rhodesianservices.org/Museum%20Displays.htm

http://www.saairforce.co.za/the-airforce/w...s/33/alpha-bomb

 

The Golf bomb was a 460 kilogram Amatol (or ANFO??? Unclear - Nigel) percussion bomb with a metre long probe in the nose to detonate the bomb above the ground. A Rhodesian invention with the appearance of a gas cylinder one and a half meters high and weighing 460 kilos; this percussion bomb contained amatol which was detonated by a tube one metre long at the nose of the cylinder which struck the ground first. On detonation the casing burst into over, 80,000 fragments lethal at 60 meters with an accompanying stun effect for a further 60. A Hunter could carry 2 golf bombs. There was also a mini golf bomb of 80 kilos for light aircraft such as lynx).

 

The Alpha Mk II bouncing bomb - a football size round bomb, 300 of which would be carried by a Canberra and when dropped would devastate an area of one hundred metres wide and a 1 000 metres long. The Alpha bomb had a double casing with 250 hard rubber balls between the inner and outer casings. This produced a forward bounce of some 18 metres at a maximum height of four metres before an ingenious three-way detonator exploded the bomb at three metres above the ground. Forty-five per cent of the casing - against seven and a half per cent of the conventional anti- personnel bomb - would saturate the target.

 

Frantan was a streamlined 50 Imp. Gallon plastic drum of napalm fitted with fins, which was designed to shatter on impact and project the napalm forward. Originally intended for use by Vampires, extended to Hunters, etc.

 

Lynx - Matra 68mm rockets, 37mm SNEB rockets, 80Kg mini-golf bomb

 

Provost - Matra 68mm rockets, 37mm SNEB rockets, 80Kg mini-golf bomb

 

Hunter - Matra 68mm rockets, 37mm SNEB rockets, 130lb Concrete Cockle Shell bomb (practice), 1,000lb GP, 450Kg Golf Bomb, 250lb GP, Frantan (napalm-type bombs)

 

Canberra - Alpha bombs, 1,000lb GP, 450Kg Golf Bomb, 250lb GP, Frantan

 

Best I can do for the time being. It'll be virtually impossible to go much further without the help of a modeller to do the golf bombs and frantan.

Edited March 1, 2009 by ndicki

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

I would enjoy dropping 300 of those Alpha bombs on an enemy position.

 

The Frantan and the Golfs are pretty important for this project. I'll figure a way to get them modeled.

 

The Lynx and Provost would be great, but I don't see that happening, no big deal.

 

I am trying to get this done by November 11th at the latest for obvious reasons!

[ndicki 22]

I am trying to get this done by November 11th at the latest for obvious reasons!

 

Let me guess...

[+allenjb42 4,230]

The Lynx and Provost would be great, but I don't see that happening, no big deal.

 

Isn't this the Lynx, by another name?

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=247632

[ndicki 22]

Isn't this the Lynx, by another name?

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?s=&am...st&p=247632

About ten different aircrasft in that thread, but no, there isn't a Lynx. There's a Kfir, which is easily confused with SAAF's Denel Cheetah (for a very good reason), but no Lynx.

 

You'd be more familiar with the Lynx under its civilian name: Reims Cessna FTB337G... It has two .303 Brownings above the wing and four light hardpoints for rocket pods etc under the wings. Useful light COIN/FAC aircraft. Mate of mine used to drive them.

 

And we've forgotten the Genet/Warrior - SIAI Marchetti SF260... Not going to get one of those, either. When I did this is CFS2, life was easier!

 

 

 

 

 

Edit : Bugger me, you were right all along! Veltro2K's post shows one - well spotted!

Edited March 2, 2009 by ndicki

[SayethWhaaaa 245]

You'd be more familiar with the Lynx under its civilian name: Reims Cessna FTB337G...

 

Personally, I remember it as the Cessna O-2. There's a Skymaster at the airport near my place in USAF O-2 colours. It flies almost every weekend.

[ndicki 22]

I've PMed Veltro2K to say hello!

[+allenjb42 4,230]

Edit : Bugger me, you were right all along! Veltro2K's post shows one - well spotted!

 

Phew! Thought I'd pasted the wrong link for a sec!

[gregair 0]

Meanwhile, is anyone looking at vehicles? There is a major problem there. Yesterday I took out a number of Centurions using the .50 cal Brownings on the Gina. Clearly not right.

 

The Falklands 1982 mod has the Eland 90 armoured car, the Rhodesians got these from South Africa, these were South African built and modified versions of the French Panhard AML 90.

 

Does anyone have Allouette 3 ?

 

The Rhodesians also got a squadron of AB 205 /UH-1D's from Israel (this adds some reality to adding aircraft like the Nesher to the game if desired) which was called the Cheetah in Rhodesian service.

These AB 205 / UH-1D'salso saw a high level of usage and combat.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Meanwhile, is anyone looking at vehicles? There is a major problem there. Yesterday I took out a number of Centurions using the .50 cal Brownings on the Gina. Clearly not right.

 

 

The Falklands 1982 mod has the Eland 90 armoured car, the Rhodesians got these from South Africa, these were South African built and modified versions of the French Panhard AML 90.

 

Does anyone have Allouette 3 ?

 

The Rhodesians also got a squadron of AB 205 /UH-1D's from Israel (this adds some reality to adding aircraft like the Nesher to the game if desired) which was called the Cheetah in Rhodesian service.

These AB 205 / UH-1D'salso saw a high level of usage and combat.

 

The problem with helicopters is their availability, and I am not an expert, but I think that the AI doesn't fly them correctly, although having G-Cars, Lynx, Hunters/Ginas and Daks in the air in a scripted mission doing a proper Fireforce would be awesome.

[gregair 0]

Thats cool, I'm really looking forward to this mod.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Thats cool, I'm really looking forward to this mod.

 

Not sure of any use for them yet, but if you want to donate some of those SAAF skins when finished, that would be cool.

[ndicki 22]

Rog on the Cheetah - there were eleven of them, R8600 - R6180. Probably from Israel, but not confirmed.

 

Just out of interest, some - at least three - Alouette IIIs were ex-Portuguese from Mos. And if that doesn't give a little bit more credibility to the idea of the Gina...

 

Meanwhile, how's this do you? It still needs weathering and generally to be made to look like it's been around the block a bit, but the basics are in. Also got callsigns, ranks, the lot.

[Jeremiah Weed 0]

Meanwhile, how's this do you? It still needs weathering and generally to be made to look like it's been around the block a bit, but the basics are in. Also got callsigns, ranks, the lot.

 

That is a fine looking bird to keep them north of the Zambezi..

 

I just finished with a rough version of the Golf, still needs a model obviously, and I need to tweak it a bit, but i have a good start on it, as I said in the PM I am going to list all Rhodesian made weapons as "South African"

 

One I get satisfied with it I'm going to go back to building the terrain.

[gregair 0]

Not sure of any use for them yet, but if you want to donate some of those SAAF skins when finished, that would be cool.

 

 

Sure, you are welcome to use them, just let me know when you need them.

 

The Rhodie Gina looks reat by the way!

[ndicki 22]

Just for info, Erikgen has given me permission to use his Gina and make such mods as are needed! Many thanks, Enrico!