+ST0RM 145 Posted January 6, 2009 I was given the Red Eagles book for Christmas by my awesome wife and have been reading it nearly every night. Well, for those of us who arent actual fighter pilots (or actively flying fighters anymore) and are interested in learning, it's not a bad way to teach yourself to fight a MiG or fight in a MiG. Will it make you the next Jabara, Cunningham or Ritchie? Probably not, but it will give you a few tips to enhance your virtual flying. So last night, Matt "Supercoupe" McKee and I did a little M/P over Hamachi. We set up in a 1v1 Dogfight using stock WoE w/the Nov 08 patch. At my request, he took the Eagle and I took the Fresco. I explained that I was reading the above mentioned book and wanted to try out all that I had read so far. We both got into the game and were started with a spread of approx. 10 miles, while each being level at 6k. At the merge, Matt went into a hard turn, as did I, knowing this to be an advantage in the MiG-17. Throughout the circle, I quickly got on his 6 and kept the pipper on his jet. Talking to him via phone (CA's Teamspeak server is not working BTW), I explained what I was doing and seeing, and he the same from his end. Keeping the MiG around 300-330kts, I had no trouble tracking the Eagle and called a guns kill, even though I didnt. We again separated to set up for another engagement, but this time I wanted Matt to use the vertical and superior power of the Eagle to keep me from getting a shot. Into the merge and up he went. I tried to climb as well but couldnt keep up. The VK-1F just doesnt have the push and the speed rapidly drained off. Instead of stalling, I rolled onto my back and tried to dive for the deck, hoping to lure the F-15 back into a low sepped turning fight. Having the height advantage, Matt easily picked my silver jet out from the surrounding sky and took the relatively simple guns kill. For our third setup, I asked him to Alt-D to get rid of the visual cheats and use only his radar and Mk.1 eyeballs to pick me up. This proved to be a bit more difficult as I intentionally stayed low and used the ground clutter to hide my jet. Banking it up to allow him a smaller side profile while he was high and keeping the jet in min-burner to keep from producing smoke. I ended up getting him into a turn and as he climbed to regain the advantage, was able to stay close enough to put some 37mm into his jet. A few more fights like this over the next hour or so and we ended the session 2 to 4 in his favor. But we both learned something and validated what guys like Jug, FC, Wags and a few other real-world pilots have been trying to explain. Plus we had a great time! Some key notes to pass along: - Keep the MiG-17 around 300-330kts. Any faster and you increase it's turn radius and negate any advantage you start with. - Against the Fresco, use the vertical and utilize slashing attacks. Boom & Zoom - Be patient. If you have a height advantage, dont be quick to drop in for a shot if it's not right. But if you do, keep your speed up in order to disengage at your leisure. What's next? More MiG flights. I'll probably follow the HAVE program and take the MiG-21F up for a few fights and learn about it. Of course one night in the MiG-17 doesnt make me an expert, so I keep "current" in it also. Hope you've enjoyed reading this, as much as we enjoyed flying it. Storm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lexx_Luthor 57 Posted January 6, 2009 Very interesting, especially the visual stuff. You may want to try F-100 vs MiG-17 as well. F-15 vs MiG-17 is like P-40 vs Albatross. Good read: AG F-86 vs F-100, F-105, and USMC MiG-19 (only the *best* are allowed to fly MiGs ) ... WE INTERVIEW LES WALTMAN~> http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ONETINSOLDIER 2 Posted January 6, 2009 Excellent info, thank you very much. Every little bit helps and since Im not a REAL pilot its nice to pick up stuff like this. Id so love to pick the brains of the guys here who did this for real in the era portrayed in this sim, but thats up to them to talk about it, and yeah, Im a little "starstruck" by fighter pilots whove seen combat. lol PM me with your hamachi address, maybe we can fly sometime. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Syrinx 13 Posted January 6, 2009 Some key notes to pass along: - Keep the MiG-17 around 300-330kts. Any faster and you increase it's turn radius and negate any advantage you start with. - Against the Fresco, use the vertical and utilize slashing attacks. Boom & Zoom - Be patient. If you have a height advantage, dont be quick to drop in for a shot if it's not right. But if you do, keep your speed up in order to disengage at your leisure. I think it speaks volumes for the integrity of the sim that the real world tactics used also work best in the virtual skies too. Thanks Jeff, I enjoyed that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MigBuster 2,884 Posted January 6, 2009 Yeah the Havedrill MiG-17F eval is a real eye opener Advice for F-4 crews: Dont reattack without getting at least 3 miles separation Advice for F-105, F-5 and F-100 - Avoid attempting to reattack unless you enjoy a tactical advantage! Advice for Me in a Mirage 3 in WOE: stay at 500IAS and ignore the little ***** while you hit the bombers! Better advice - use F-16A :) The MiG-17F has control difficulties over 450IAS - not sure how well they are modelled in the stock FM thou - Even the A-7 and A-6 should have a smaller turn radius above that speed! it was also recommended that speed be kept at 500 - 600 if poss! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toonces 4 Posted January 10, 2009 Great post Storm. I finished that book a few months ago. If you like the part about the Fresco, wait till you start reading about the Flogger. Man, that plane sounds like a total death-trap. I really enjoyed the intro too, where they talk about "buck fever" and how pilots would be so mesmerized by the sight of the MiG-21 coming at them that they'd lose the first 30 degrees of turn before they realized they needed to stop looking and start fighting... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Crusader 2,101 Posted February 13, 2009 Very interesting, especially the visual stuff. You may want to try F-100 vs MiG-17 as well. F-15 vs MiG-17 is like P-40 vs Albatross. Good read: AG F-86 vs F-100, F-105, and USMC MiG-19 (only the *best* are allowed to fly MiGs ) ... WE INTERVIEW LES WALTMAN~> http://sabre-pilots.org/classics/v23les.htm AIR COMBAT TACTICS EVALUATION F-100, F-104, F-105, F-4C VS MIG-15/17 TYPE A/C(F-86H) - 10 mb Complete Feather Duster Report Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+SkippyBing 8 Posted February 13, 2009 I think it speaks volumes for the integrity of the sim that the real world tactics used also work best in the virtual skies too. Don't let the targetware fanboy hear you say that! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
