a newbie needs help....

[GMagos 6]

Hi to everyone.I have a problem with wov.I cannot shoot down enemy aircrafts with AIM-9B Sidewinder.Every time i tried (a lot of times) I miss.I dont know if i am doing something wrong.I fire when I am aprox between 1-2 nm,i tried with boresight mode and search mode,i think i have locked my target always (my target in in a yellow square) and the sound become more intence.That time i fire but always i miss.Am i doing something wrong?Or is it normal to have a 5% accuracywith these kind of weapons?I think this the wright place to post my question...Oh i ve tried only 2 times with AIM-7D Sparrow and also missed.Again with locking the enemy who was iat a long distance etc.Sorry for my bad english.

[scouserlad13 0]

I think your fireing to close, also the enemy manouvers out the way, try shooting when your at a distance of 4-5nm with your sidewinder. And with the sparrow i think it comes into range at around 13nm but i choose to fire when im at 11nm. Hope this helps

[MaverickMike 10]

AIM9-B sidewinders were also one of the first types of these missiles so as you can imagine they are not very reliable. I find unless the enemy is flying relatively straight and level the sidewinder will almost certaintly miss. Its simply better to close for a gun kill

[gbnavy61 1]

GMagos,

 

Don't get discouraged. The AIM-9B was a really lousy missile and pilots frequently missed their targets with it. It was one of the first IR homing missiles, so it had serious limitations. Many turned out to be duds. Many won't track targets even if you fire with a good tone. And if your target maneuvers, the missile will likely lose lock if the target pulls more than a few G's. So, yes, the low accuracy is normal.

 

In my last 7 AIM-9B shoots, I've gotten 2 hits; that's actually a bit high for me. I think I've been trying to be more patient with the missile and wait for a good tone before I shoot. On the first, I got a good tone from about 1.5 miles away and shot one at the MiG-21 I was chasing. He pulled into a right hand turn, at which point I thought the missile would just keep trucking straight ahead as it couldn't follow the maneuver. To my surprise I saw the Sidewinder arc across to the right and go up his tailpipe. Splash one! In another mission, a MiG-21 was crawling up my wing's arse, so I thought I'd help out. Got in behind the MiG and using a couple barrel rolls to stay behind him, I was on his tail at only a couple hundred yards. I was thinking about going to guns at that range, but just then I got a boresight lock and a good growl from the Sidewinder, so I shot. I saw the missile go streaking forward, but thought it was going to be a dud. Again, I was surprised to see a cloud MiG bits go by the left side of my canopy and a trail of smoke follow that MiG spinning down to the desert floor. On the other hand, in my last flight, I fired off 4 at this one MiG, from a decent position, with a good tone, and got zilch. Had to gun the bastard down.

 

The early Sparrows also tend to fail a lot. Down low to the ground, they can be easily confused by ground clutter (radar reflections off the terrain). Also, if your lock on the target is broken, the missile will go ballistic and self-destruct.

 

I'm not sure about Scouser's advice on the Sidewinder. At 4-5nm, you'll probably have a real hard time just getting a tone on a bandit. The distance seems too far. If it has worked for him, then give it a try. But, I would think that shooting from such ranges will result in more misses. First, you have a pretty poor heat source to lock onto at 4-5nm (unless maybe the bandit is in afterburner). Second, you are giving the bandit a lot of space in which to maneuver to defeat your shot. Third, you're giving the bandit a lot of time to defeat your shot.

 

I'd listen to Scouser on the Sparrow shoots. Generally, I too try to get my AIM-7s off the rails early on in the fight so I can take advantage of their strengths. They generally don't do too well in a close-in dogfight, so shoot them at targets that are still a ways off. Additionally, you may want to consider being slightly below the target's altitude to help your radar look up into a clear sky - makes it easier to pick out and stay locked onto your target (no ground clutter).

 

It's also a big plus to have to option of going to guns. If you're flying an F-4, I'd try to slap a gunpod on that sucker or take the F-4E. If you're flying an F-8, that's even better.

 

(With the F-8, just make sure to use the "gun group" function so that you can fire 2 guns at a time - you have a total of 4. The MK 12 cannon are prone to jamming - particularly when firing with more than 2 G's on the airplane. So, try not to shoot while hauling back on the stick. If you do jam though, you should have 2 more guns to switch to and kill some MiGs.)

Edited January 26, 2009 by gbnavy61

[+SkippyBing 8]

The Aim-9B had a fairly low chance of success in real life unless you were within some fairly tight parameters. I've found you need to be on the targets 6 o'clock within a few miles and wait until he's straight and level, that should get your success rate up, although it does limit your firing opportunities a bit!

[Viper6 3]

Forget the missiles, go to guns! But try to get closer than a mile for the winders, sparrows keep your nose on him!

[Spinners 15,981]

That's good advice from the boys there and welcome to CombatACE GMagos. Practice makes perfect!

 

And don't worry about your bad English - your post was actually rather good!

[GMagos 6]

Thanks a lot all of you for the instant replies.You are very helpful.I will try now to make your theories work.If anyone wants to make additional comments go for it because as i see there are little disagreements.thanks again and +1 credit to gbnavy61 for writing a little manual about my query.

[gbnavy61 1]

I just can't shut up (with my fingers).

[Lt. James Cater 62]

The really good thing about the AIM-9B is that the Soviets duplicated it for the Atoll.

 

As far as my use of the B goes, i estimate that i have had a kill rate of less than 10%. My opinion of it's use differs from Scouser. Against a fighter sized target moving straight and lever, inside of 2 miles seems to work well. 1.5 to 1.2 miles will usually get you the hit. Be advised, your aircraft should also be either straight and level or in a very shallow angle from 6 low. Once the range gets to a mile either go to guns or manuver to be able to stay at least a 1-1.2 miles behind the target(provided it's still straight and level) If it breaks, good luck on the rest of your fight!

 

I've had greater success with the AIM-7 using boresight, but the envelope is pretty tricky. Much depends on the heading and speed of the target. When firing from 6 o'clock, i prefer to be 500 to 1000ft lower than the target at a range of 3 to 5 miles. With face shots, i've fired from as far as 12 miles with 5 miles being the absolute minimum due to the minimal time you'll have due to your closing speeds.

A neat tactic in the case of the latter is to drop the nose and go full burner in order to give yourself sufficient seperation to turn back into the enemy and re-engage.