Gous 0 Posted March 5, 2009 Winged Warfare by William (Billy) Bishop. Has anyone read it? Is it good? I have just ordered it from the UK.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rickitycrate 10 Posted March 5, 2009 One of my first reads on the topic. Excellent as I recall and if you enjoy flying the Nieups you will really relate to his experience. You will enjoy it, good choice. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoomzoom 2 Posted March 5, 2009 (edited) How do you fellows manage to fly the Spad, either VII or VIII. I'm spoiled by constantly using the German crates which I prefer for thier excellence in engineering and performance. To branch out a bit I tried a few of the oppositions ships. The camel, just fine...Se5a..ugly but effective, my fav...the sopwith tripe, quite nice!!.....but the SPAD!!! Bleeeeeeech!! Other than a zoom-n-boom sneak attack and quick escape, or in superior numbers, I don't see how you guys make this thing non-lethal!! (To its own pilot I mean) Any ideas as far as tricks of the trade for this bird? ZZ. Edited March 5, 2009 by zoomzoom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
griphos 0 Posted March 5, 2009 I'm with you on the Spads. Just don't like 'em. Luv' my Sopwiths, of whatever number of wings. But Parky (where IS Parky, by the way....I tried to get in touch to let him know about the new forum, but he was banned on SOH before I could do so) has a couple of videos in the Spad that inspire me. One is called Spads CAN Turn, or something to that effect. Believe it's on the OFF website under Movies. Almost makes me want to go up in one again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hoghead 0 Posted March 6, 2009 How do you fellows manage to fly the Spad, either VII or VIII. I'm spoiled by constantly using the German crates which I prefer for thier excellence in engineering and performance. To branch out a bit I tried a few of the oppositions ships. The camel, just fine...Se5a..ugly but effective, my fav...the sopwith tripe, quite nice!!.....but the SPAD!!! Bleeeeeeech!! Other than a zoom-n-boom sneak attack and quick escape, or in superior numbers, I don't see how you guys make this thing non-lethal!! (To its own pilot I mean) Any ideas as far as tricks of the trade for this bird? ZZ. ZZ I made a test pilot strictly for the purpose of working out how to fly the Spad. Against all the axis aircraft I could pretty much manage to keep the upper hand with the exception of the Dr1 and the DVII. I could keep away from the Dr1 with speed but could only manage head on and front quarter shots. With the DVII I could never manage more than about 30-40% wins. The problem stems from the fact that all the OFF aircraft are seriously lacking in roll rate, at least for the player, that and elevator authority is pretty porked on alot of the planes. I'm convinced that a lot of the control issues stem from "compressibility"/control response vs speed is way over modeled. Winder is currently looking into roll rate as part of 1.26 and hopefully checking out the sluggish control response as speed increases issue so perhaps ver. 1.26 this will fix the problem. Until then the Spads, both the VII and the XIII, are non players. Scott Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TSmoke 2 Posted March 6, 2009 Winged Warfare by William (Billy) Bishop. Has anyone read it? Is it good? I have just ordered it from the UK.. Winged Warfare is a good book,I bought the book when I was 10 or 12 now over 50 and still have it. It's a little worse for wear being read a million times. It's a tad dry in the beginning but does get better, good read overall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted March 6, 2009 Yes Gous, "Winged Warfare" is a good read, but as TSmoke points out it is a bit dry at the start. Not nearly as much though as Bishop's second work, "Winged Peace". That one is not only dry but also gets downright preachy at the end. Both are in my WW1 aviation library, but I've only read "WP" once. Cheers, Lou Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoomzoom 2 Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Interesting Hoghead. I wonder if anyone here has read at-all extensively about the handling qualities of the Spad. If anyone has any info I'm sure it would be appreciated. I have the feeling that the Dev's have essentially got it right though, as the Spad was mainly touted from the little I've read on it as having the flying qualities of a Brick with an engine big enough to get it off the ground. Thats why Rickenbacker and others who employed it effectively always used superior numbers, or sneak zoom-n-boom attacks to get thier kills in it. I do also think that OFF phase-3 has very accurately placed all of these AC in thier proper handling niches. (maybe some minor tweaks will come like the roll rate tweak you mentioned, but all in all they are quite historically realistic) I mean the Fokker-DVII was the Vunder Veapon of the war, so with it against the Spad in a turning fight, there should be an advantage of the ratio you describe. At that point as the pilot of the Spad, its either time to develop some new tactics, or not get into that fight in the first place. Very similar to how Clair Chenault had to caution his pilots in P-40's in WWII not to engage the Zeros in a turning fight. That was THIER fight,do not enter THIER fight....attack them with YOURS...(again...zoom and boom or two-plane scissors) or leave. I also am eagerly awaiting the Nieuport28 for the American Squads in OFF, because this was truly an excellent turning and dogfighting plane. Many don't know it but quite a few of the Squads who were issued these planes were very upset and resisted when they began replacing them with the SPAD types, as they saw the SPAD as inferior for just the reasons listed above, it wasn't up to the true dogfighting aesthetic, and was simply heavy and fast. ZZ. Edited March 6, 2009 by zoomzoom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+MK2 12 Posted March 6, 2009 It's a good book. Now about the SPAD XIII funny but it is actually the only plane I have flown the previous month in campaign mode. It was impossible to get kills early on as I insisted on turning with the DR1s and Fokker DVIis was getting myself shot down quite regularly. Now I currently have a 5 kill ace waiting for confirmation on his 6th kill. I don't think I have had an enemy plane fire at me from behind yet in this current campaign (althogh I almost lost the pilot to ground fire during a balloon mission). My SPAD rules: 1. never engage flights above you, let them pass or if they dive in , extend with superior speed, choose where to fight (what side of the lines) and turn back into fight using boom and zoom tactics. 2. When you fire on an enemy airplane, make one or two turns at most before you extend and make another pass. 3. Above all use the superior speed of the SPAD XIII to constantly extend from the fight and engage or disengage at will. Once you realize you have the speed to leave any battle at any moment , you start using it to your advantage. I would not trust another plane more than the SPAD XIII right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoomzoom 2 Posted March 6, 2009 (edited) Wow, those really do sound like period Spad tactics MK2. :yes: Thanks...I'll give them a try. This will be my "challenging" plane. You do have to carefully pick and choose your situation, and method...you just cant rely on the AC's superiority to save your skin, and from what I've read, this was never more true than in the SPAD. So Dev's...good-on-ya again for getting things right yet again. ZZ. PS. I apologize Gous, I'll stop hijacking your thread. Edited March 6, 2009 by zoomzoom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gous 0 Posted March 6, 2009 PS. I apologize Gous, I'll stop hijacking your thread. Yeah!!! Get the heck outta here!! :Deadhorse: :rapage: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoomzoom 2 Posted March 6, 2009 Your mother was a Hamster, and your father smelt of Elderberries!! ZZ. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
