Finally Got in

[GRUMPYBEAR 1]

First OFF...haha, please let my apologize for the misspelling, Grumpybear. You can go after me and take me out with a mighty swipe, but please leave my Nup 17 alone. She's done no harm and it's not her fault I keep getting my butt handed to me in QC.

 

Not resetting to defaults can cause some really screwy things; I wasn't the first and you won't be the last. The low bat can happen any time.

 

Let me know the model. How long have you had it? Some where there just has to be another soul who's still running an A1, be it a reference board or not. On the other hand, my "15 minutes" of cutting edge looks to be developing into a 3 year affair come this December. Our boards give us the distinction of being the few, the proud, the humbly chosen by the mobo gods. Oh, and did I mention we have earned the right to call all those other EVGA boards "whippersnappers", especially when they ask why are you still driving that Edsel....

 

I bought it Oct or Nov 07.

 

I feel like I have an edsel with my GTS8800 vid card sometime. I was going to update it but my son, an electrical engineer with Intel, said to hold off, things are changing a lot in the next yr.

[almccoyjr 7]

I bought it Oct or Nov 07.

 

I feel like I have an edsel with my GTS8800 vid card sometime. I was going to update it but my son, an electrical engineer with Intel, said to hold off, things are changing a lot in the next yr.

 

We're not to far apart; I'm running a single 8800 GTX. If you want to really pickup your GTS and don't mind pushing it some, check out the Thermalright HR-03 and see if it's sized for the GTS. If you're running a sound card, you'll need to check clearances. I use the onboard chip and Realtek's latest driver really makes a huge difference in sound quality and dimensional location. It's not as good as a dedicated card, but it's close enough for me. That, along with a good fluid bearing fan with rubber or silicone dampeners to eliminate any vibration, you can safely oc the card to some pretty impressive numbers.

 

If you are running an AR, then I must call you sir due to your age and being the original revision...haha. My A1 is s/n 3 which coded means version #2, (A1), serial number 1, and the difference in the caps made it one of the reference boards, which I was later able to confirm.

 

The boards are talking about some pretty neat stuff coming down the pike. The one I'm really waiting for is the pricing breakthrough on SSD's.

[BirdDogICT 3]

Tamper...Real good info:

Here is my RAM

http://www.mushkin.com/doc/products/memory_detail.asp?id=519

 

Since we have the same motherboard, I would really appreciate some information if you have the time, on how to set up the RAM to be more stable in your opinion. I am really not the knowledgeble as far as tweaking the settings of RAM, in the BIOS. I can get to BIOS and change stuff etc. but don't really understand what all the numbers indicate..If you can make some suggestions, I will try them in a week when I return from my location shoot. Thanks buddy.

Steve

 

 

PhantomJoker,

 

I've been following this thread for some time, and thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. My problems with BHaH have been very minor by comparison, and on an older Socket 939 machine. I was running my Corsair PC4400 memory at the settings it is guaranteed to run (275 MHz with 3448, 2T timings), and like you, I had no problems with any other game, but experienced minor graphics glitches with BHaH (i.e., AA and AF would turn off at higher resolutions). As it turned out, my memory was 2D stable at stock settings, but not 3D stable, something that doesn't show up with tests like Memtest. I've now "declocked" the memory to the memory stick's SPD timings (3338, 2T) and everything is fine. I've been building PCs for 20 years, and it had me stumped for a while. Unfortunately, setting memory timings is sometimes a trial and error process, but starting with SPD timings is usually the best approach, before you start making changes in front side bus speeds and memory dividers.

 

Hope this helps.

[Tamper 9]

PhantomJoker,

 

I've been following this thread for some time, and thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. My problems with BHaH have been very minor by comparison, and on an older Socket 939 machine. I was running my Corsair PC4400 memory at the settings it is guaranteed to run (275 MHz with 3448, 2T timings), and like you, I had no problems with any other game, but experienced minor graphics glitches with BHaH (i.e., AA and AF would turn off at higher resolutions). As it turned out, my memory was 2D stable at stock settings, but not 3D stable, something that doesn't show up with tests like Memtest. I've now "declocked" the memory to the memory stick's SPD timings (3338, 2T) and everything is fine. I've been building PCs for 20 years, and it had me stumped for a while. Unfortunately, setting memory timings is sometimes a trial and error process, but starting with SPD timings is usually the best approach, before you start making changes in front side bus speeds and memory dividers.

 

Hope this helps.

 

BirdDogICT - wow...you're the third person now to report a (very) similar scenario. I'm glad you mentioned your experiences. Like you, I've been doing this (PC's) for a long time now, and this also had me stumped for awhile, too, when it was happening on *my* machine(s). It's a very 'vexing' scenario - everything works fine (but one), everything seems fine (but the tests won't catch this issue). That was my experience, right down to the gnat's nads :) And, like you, the eventual fix was to relax the memory timings a bit.

 

I think - and we're still trying to determine this, to be sure - that PJ is probably already running 'auto' memory timings (SPD); we don't know for sure just yet. And, if that's the case, I believe they could be relaxed a bit from 'stock' and solve his problem..."Herr Prop Wasche" basically had the same issue (see page 3), and wound up 'declocking' his timings and it worked for him as well. (By the way, I like 'declocking'...sounds way more serious than 'relaxing' *lol*)

 

Time will tell :)

Edited March 31, 2009 by Tamper

[BirdDogICT 3]

BirdDogICT - wow...you're the third person now to report a (very) similar scenario.

 

Tamper,

 

Glad to know (I guess) that I'm not alone.

 

I didn't want to elaborate more on my own experience, recognizing that you've been much more involved in the process. I'm just adding my voice to the discussion hoping to help other BHaH users. I've been able to offer a lot of helpful advice to ATI card users, due to trying every conceivable combination of graphics settings to make my graphics problem go away (and let's not mention the fact that I would have never solved it without my mildly obsessive compulsive nature).

 

Cheers

[GRUMPYBEAR 1]

We're not to far apart; I'm running a single 8800 GTX. If you want to really pickup your GTS and don't mind pushing it some, check out the Thermalright HR-03 and see if it's sized for the GTS. If you're running a sound card, you'll need to check clearances. I use the onboard chip and Realtek's latest driver really makes a huge difference in sound quality and dimensional location. It's not as good as a dedicated card, but it's close enough for me. That, along with a good fluid bearing fan with rubber or silicone dampeners to eliminate any vibration, you can safely oc the card to some pretty impressive numbers.

 

If you are running an AR, then I must call you sir due to your age and being the original revision...haha. My A1 is s/n 3 which coded means version #2, (A1), serial number 1, and the difference in the caps made it one of the reference boards, which I was later able to confirm.

 

The boards are talking about some pretty neat stuff coming down the pike. The one I'm really waiting for is the pricing breakthrough on SSD's.

 

 

Almccoyir

Its a T1 version. Purchased 8-28-2007

 

Tried to flash back to the orginal BIOS and the thing quit midway . So, I had bought an extra warranty when I purchased this MOBO and the Ram in slot 3 wont lock down tight . I called today and they will replace it or send a check for my purchase price.

[almccoyjr 7]

Almccoyir

Its a T1 version. Purchased 8-28-2007

 

Tried to flash back to the orginal BIOS and the thing quit midway . So, I had bought an extra warranty when I purchased this MOBO and the Ram in slot 3 wont lock down tight . I called today and they will replace it or send a check for my purchase price.

 

Sorry to here about the mobo. I was hoping that all you would have to do was to re-set and re-flash. Your T1 version was the last update to the 680i SLI boards. It was the answer to some of the memory, and quad core problems the earlier boards had encountered.

[almccoyjr 7]

Tamper,

 

Glad to know (I guess) that I'm not alone.

 

I didn't want to elaborate more on my own experience, recognizing that you've been much more involved in the process. I'm just adding my voice to the discussion hoping to help other BHaH users. I've been able to offer a lot of helpful advice to ATI card users, due to trying every conceivable combination of graphics settings to make my graphics problem go away (and let's not mention the fact that I would have never solved it without my mildly obsessive compulsive nature).

 

Cheers

 

Glad you're on board BirdDogICT.

 

Now, BirdDogICT and Tamper, see if this makes sense and if you can relate it back to your own experiences with this ram problem. When vram is really rendering high texture loads, and it doesn't have the capacity, it has to pull from system ram to fill and this takes time. If system ram is having "timing issues" then as the textures are swapped back and forth, crashes, lockups can occur. Phantomjoker may be running sli, but his vram is 256mb and that's boarder line for CFS3 to run smoothly unless you've got the sliders turned way down. More ram, going from 2gb to 4gb should have alleviated this somewhat, but it hasn't. Tightening the timings should also be more than possible since his MC can handle it and he's got the voltage headroom. This would also allow faster ram/vram swap.

 

Could his problem be that his payload is just set to low?

[BirdDogICT 3]

Glad you're on board BirdDogICT.

 

Now, BirdDogICT and Tamper, see if this makes sense and if you can relate it back to your own experiences with this ram problem. When vram is really rendering high texture loads, and it doesn't have the capacity, it has to pull from system ram to fill and this takes time. If system ram is having "timing issues" then as the textures are swapped back and forth, crashes, lockups can occur. Phantomjoker may be running sli, but his vram is 256mb and that's boarder line for CFS3 to run smoothly unless you've got the sliders turned way down. More ram, going from 2gb to 4gb should have alleviated this somewhat, but it hasn't. Tightening the timings should also be more than possible since his MC can handle it and he's got the voltage headroom. This would also allow faster ram/vram swap.

 

Could his problem be that his payload is just set to low?

 

almccoyr,

 

I see a couple of potential problems with this setup (I'm not trying to be pendantic here, just making sure my arguments are spelled out):

 

1. More RAM, going from 2GB to 4GB --- When populating all four memory slots (i.e.; “4-up”) you are placing a greater electrical load on the memory controller than 2-up. This increased load can result in instability if the BIOS is not tuned or tweaked to compensate. You have to make certain that your motherboard BIOS allows adjustments to the memory controller voltage. You also have to be certain that the motherboard is capable of cooling the memory controller as it will generate more heat with 4-up and the increased voltage. Most motherboard manufacturers put a hard cap on memory speed in this situation to increase stability...in the case of the eVGA 780i, the hard cap is 1088 MHz. The increased load of 4-up is not an additional load on the memory modules and can't be addressed simply by increasing memory voltage. The motherboard typically supplies the BIOS set voltage to each slot, regardless of how many slots are filled. Increasing the memory voltage over the rated voltage should only be necessary when overclocking or using memory that exceeds the JEDEC specifications for voltage.

 

Additionally, the inability to address 4GB is a limitation of a 32-bit operating system. In Windows, the Windows memory manager is limited to a 4 GB physical address space. Most of that address space is filled with RAM, but not all of it. Memory-mapped devices (such as your video card) will use some of that physical address space, as will the BIOS ROMs. After all the non-memory devices have had their say, there will be less than 4GB of address space available for RAM below the 4GB physical address boundary.

 

We tend to forget that video cards are memory mapped devices. That means that you have to have memory that has stable communication with the CPU if you want good video performance.

 

2. Tightening the timings---The allure of faster memory speeds tends to make us a little careless when trying to improve performance. This is compounded by DDR2 and

DDR3 memory that offers higher bandwidth through faster speeds but with looser timings. Now the higher your memory speed, generally speaking the better, (i.e., higher bandwidth is good). But bandwidth has to be matched to your FSB speed and ability of your memory controller to handle the bandwidth.

 

Think about bandwidth as a highway. If DDR800 is say an 8 lane highway, than DDR1066 is say a 12 lane highway...meaning it has the ability to pass more data. That doesn't mean it will pass more data, but that it could, in theory. But it depends on your memory timings. With older DDR memory 220MHz (using CL2-2-2-5) = 260 MHz (using CL2.5-3-3-7) = 300 MHz (using CL2.5-4-3-7) (Timings: CAS-Trcd-Trp-Tras). In other words, memory running at 220 MHz with faster timings performs the same as memory running at 300MHz with slower timings.

 

We can lower the memory timings on the DDR800 or 8 lane highway so that it's "speed limit" is higher than the high latency DDR1066 or 12 lane highway. If the goal is to get the most data or cars moved from point A to point B as fast as possible, then this makes sense. Since the cars on the 8 lane highway are traveling faster, they are gonna get from point A to point B faster. Unless there are so many cars, so much data, that they cannot fit on the 8 lane highway...then the 12 lane highway will be faster. As things sit today, with our current CPUs, an 8 lane highway or DDR800 is usually more than enough.

 

3. With your motherboard, you're better off linking and syncing FSB to RAM to provide the most stability & performance, while also allowing for better latencies. Most agree that a 1:1 FSB to RAM Ratio works the best for a balance of stability and performance. Meaning the memory is running at the same speed as the FSB.

 

Basic terms you probably already know:

 

FSB This is basically how fast your CPU talks to the rest of your system. It (along with the multiplier)is also a contributing factor in determining overall CPU speed. Faster is better in most cases.

 

QDR This is the effective FSB speed, found by simply multiplying the true FSB times four. (4 x FSB=QDR) True FSB speed is more important. Faster is better in most cases.

 

Multiplier This along with FSB determines how fast your CPU operates. (266 x 9 = 2400Mhz or 2.4Ghz) Notice how the QDR is not included in this equation. Higher multipliers are generally better.

 

So using the following CPU as an example (I'm not sure which CPU you are using):

 

If you have a 266Mhz FSB, 1:1 with memory would be achieved running DDR533. Remember memory is double data rate. The equation looks like this

(DDRMhz= 2 x RamMhz : FSBMhz x 4 =QDR) = 1:1

 

or....2.4Ghz or 2400Mhz (DDR533= 2 x 266Mhz : 266Mhz x 4 = 1066QDR) = 1:1 =2400Mhz

 

Now if you wanted to overclock to say 3.6Ghz or 3600Mhz...it would look like this.

 

(DDR800= 2 x 400Mhz : 400Mhz x 4 = 1600QDR) = 1:1 =3600Mhz

 

Many people are buying DDR2 1066 memory wanting to run it 2x as fast as their FSB, or a 2:1 ratio. This rarely results in a stable system.

My advice would be to lower the memory speed and timings, possibly as low as 533 MHZ in order to get stable performance with all four memory slots populated.

 

 

Hope this helps....

 

 

[BirdDogICT 3]

almccoyjr,

 

eVGA just issued new drivers on 3/16/09 for Joker's motherboard for XP 32-bit:

http://www.evga.com/support/drivers/default.asp?switch=2

 

eVGA released new BIOS SZ17 on 1/26/09 that addresses CPU multiplier issues. Yet to see a BIOS update that addresses correct recognition of memory SPD. Don't know that I would try flashing BIOS at this point.

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.asp?m=758599

 

I went back to the old OFF forum, and read previous posts on Joker's problems...sounds like there has been a lot of advice, but still appears to be a memory problem to me. I also looked at eVGA's manual for the 780i board, and thought it was pretty sketchy. As much control as you have through BIOS, you'd think they'd provide better documentation. Maybe try some of the eVGA forums for suggestions. The 15 minute crash with OFF sounds like a heat-related problem...lots of people with this board are adding case fans due to the Northbridge fan blowing directly onto the graphics card.

 

Cheers

[BirdDogICT 3]

Joker,

 

Looking back over the threads from the old OFF forum, it looks like you're using an E8400 processor, and it's default FSB is 333 with a divider of 9 (1333 MHz quad pumped).

 

CPU Frequency = Front Side Bus x Multiplier

333MHz FSB x 9 = 3000MHz is the default CPU frequency

If we increase the FSB to 400MHz, the CPU will be overclocked substantially;

400 MHz FSB x 9 = 3600MHz

 

Because the memory bus is linked to the FSB frequency, as you overclock, the memory speed also increases. Motherboard’s offer various memory speeds by utilising different divider settings. And if we want to overclock your machine with a 333MHz FSB processor, the following dividers are available (FSB:DRAM);

 

PC2-5400 memory (667 MHz effective, 333 MHz actual) = a 1:1 ratio

 

PC2-6400 memory (800 MHz effective, 400MHz actual) = a 5:6 ratio

 

PC2-8500 memory (1066 MHz effective, 533 MHz actual) = a 5:8 ratio

 

However, if you overclocked your FSB to 400, you would need the following dividers and memory speeds:

(1/1) x 400MHz FSB = 400MHz (800MHz effective – PC2-6400 or better needed)

 

(6/5) x 400MHz FSB = 480MHz (960MHz effective – PC2-8000 or better needed)

(

8/5) x 400MHz FSB = 640MHz (1280MHz effective – even PC2-10,000 isn’t enough!)

Since you have chosen to populate all 4 memory slots with PC2-6400 memory, you have limited your overclocking choices. To maintain stability, you'll need to set your FSB at 333, Multiplier at 9, and memory speed to 667 MHz to maintain a 1:1 FSB:DRAM ratio. Even though the Mushkin is excellent overclocking memory, you'll need to run it at slower speeds with your current configuration. Looks like you'll be running at 3.0 GHz.

 

Also, keep in mind that the number of memory modules used has an effect on utilize EPP or XMP performance profiles. Some BIOS implementations will not allow the selection of these options when running 4-up. Operation in the 4-up configuration is not a defined part of the EPP or XMP standard, and users running 4-up will have to set memory settings manually. That means you won't be able to use automatic settings in your BIOS.

 

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but the math is simple enough...

 

Cheers

Edited April 1, 2009 by BirdDogICT

[Over50 0]

Joker,

 

Looking back over the threads from the old OFF forum, it looks like you're using an E8400 processor, and it's default FSB is 333 with a divider of 9 (1333 MHz quad pumped).

 

CPU Frequency = Front Side Bus x Multiplier

333MHz FSB x 9 = 3000MHz is the default CPU frequency

If we increase the FSB to 400MHz, the CPU will be overclocked substantially;

400 MHz FSB x 9 = 3600MHz

 

Because the memory bus is linked to the FSB frequency, as you overclock, the memory speed also increases. Motherboard's offer various memory speeds by utilising different divider settings. And if we want to overclock your machine with a 333MHz FSB processor, the following dividers are available (FSB:DRAM);

 

PC2-5400 memory (667 MHz effective, 333 MHz actual) = a 1:1 ratio

 

PC2-6400 memory (800 MHz effective, 400MHz actual) = a 5:6 ratio

 

PC2-8500 memory (1066 MHz effective, 533 MHz actual) = a 5:8 ratio

 

However, if you overclocked your FSB to 400, you would need the following dividers and memory speeds:

(1/1) x 400MHz FSB = 400MHz (800MHz effective – PC2-6400 or better needed)

 

(6/5) x 400MHz FSB = 480MHz (960MHz effective – PC2-8000 or better needed)

(

8/5) x 400MHz FSB = 640MHz (1280MHz effective – even PC2-10,000 isn't enough!)

Since you have chosen to populate all 4 memory slots with PC2-6400 memory, you have limited your overclocking choices. To maintain stability, you'll need to set your FSB at 333, Multiplier at 9, and memory speed to 667 MHz to maintain a 1:1 FSB:DRAM ratio. Even though the Mushkin is excellent overclocking memory, you'll need to run it at slower speeds with your current configuration. Looks like you'll be running at 3.0 GHz.

 

Also, keep in mind that the number of memory modules used has an effect on utilize EPP or XMP performance profiles. Some BIOS implementations will not allow the selection of these options when running 4-up. Operation in the 4-up configuration is not a defined part of the EPP or XMP standard, and users running 4-up will have to set memory settings manually. That means you won't be able to use automatic settings in your BIOS.

 

I'm not claiming to be an expert, but the math is simple enough...

 

Cheers

 

Just to comment, I have my E8400 OC'd to 3.6GHz and the memory speed does NOT ramp up if you unlink the memory from the FSB speed via the available BIOS option - which I do. And I've had zero performance problems in any game I play including OFF.

[BirdDogICT 3]

Just to comment, I have my E8400 OC'd to 3.6GHz and the memory speed does NOT ramp up if you unlink the memory from the FSB speed via the available BIOS option - which I do. And I've had zero performance problems in any game I play including OFF.

 

I appreciate the comment. I assume that you're overclocking with only 1 or 2 memory slots filled. When you start populating all four memory slots (if I understand correctly what PhantomJoker has done) it causes some problems, especially if he's trying to overclock.

 

Did I miss something here? Mostly just thinking out loud about what he might try as far getting his hardware to behave. Always helps me to go back to basics when I'm having problems.

 

Cheers

[Over50 0]

I appreciate the comment. I assume that you're overclocking with only 1 or 2 memory slots filled. When you start populating all four memory slots (if I understand correctly what PhantomJoker has done) it causes some problems, especially if he's trying to overclock.

 

Did I miss something here? Mostly just thinking out loud about what he might try as far getting his hardware to behave. Always helps me to go back to basics when I'm having problems.

 

Cheers

 

Just 2 slots (2x2GB) occupied. But my reason for the comment was to denote you can raise the FSB to OC the processor without correspondingly ramping up the mem speed if you select unlinked. Fact is I've had mine up to 3.9 (on air) and stable (albeit after bumping up the processor voltage a bit from default). Just didn't see enough actual game performance benefit between 3.6 and 3.9 GHz to warrant the higher failure risk so just run at the lower/safer 3.6.

 

All this said, if I remember correctly the OP is not/has not OC'd anything on his system. But his problem may very well be related to populating all four slots with the particular/odd default timing value of the memory he's using.

[BirdDogICT 3]

Just 2 slots (2x2GB) occupied. But my reason for the comment was to denote you can raise the FSB to OC the processor without correspondingly ramping up the mem speed if you select unlinked. Fact is I've had mine up to 3.9 (on air) and stable (albeit after bumping up the processor voltage a bit from default). Just didn't see enough actual game performance benefit between 3.6 and 3.9 GHz to warrant the higher failure risk so just run at the lower/safer 3.6.

 

All this said, if I remember correctly the OP is not/has not OC'd anything on his system. But his problem may very well be related to populating all four slots with the particular/odd default timing value of the memory he's using.

 

You're absolutely right. FSB and memory speeds don't necessarily have to be linked. I've just found that my builds have been more stable when I don't have to use a memory divider.

 

Cheers

[Tamper 9]

You're absolutely right. FSB and memory speeds don't necessarily have to be linked. I've just found that my builds have been more stable when I don't have to use a memory divider.

 

Cheers

 

Gentlemen, if I may, please -

 

I pointed out earlier that it might not be in the best interest of the person with the issue here to delve (deeply) into the overwhelming array of options that one confronts with configurations in PC's. I pointed out that our friend Joker was (perhaps) a bit intimidated by all this, and might be discouraged to try some simple testing because of the impression all this confusion leaves. I think it just scares some people to death of modifying *anything* in a computer - even if it's appropriate to solving a problem.

 

I believe Joker made it clear nothing was being overclocked. I'd just as soon we all agree to a temporary moratorium on that term (overclocking) *lol* (except where used to say "We're not doing that in this case") because a. it doesn't apply here and b. associating overclocking too closely with Joker's problem seems only likely to further obfuscate what might be the very solution he seeks.

 

I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, but I am saying this thread was about helping someone solve a problem (and still should be).

 

If I may recap a moment:

 

To be factual, three different people now have reported nearly identical symptoms, and all three seem to have solved the issue with similar steps. This isn't theoretical or mathematical, it's real-world experience, reported by three people who have no other connection and little reason to fabricate. I did mention my belief that it would be best to only use two memory modules for testing - not based on math or any theory, but the simple fact that doing so leaves less to cause a problem (and therefore less to rule out).

 

I think we'd all agree it's best to make as few changes as possible (and "We're not overclocking" *lol*), so there should be little reason to mess around with voltages. A lot of that stuff applies when you're doing the (now-unmentionable) overclocking thing, but I honestly believe it's inappropriate to heave all that into the list of possibilites - especially when we're actually trying to get that list smaller instead of larger.

 

I do agree, and it's been mentioned several times now, that the idea in this case is to lower the memory timings (and perhaps speed - but he's running DDR2-800/stock which isn't an EPP or 'extended' speed if I'm not mistaken, so I vote for timings). Maybe try lower timings, then lower speed if that doesn't help, then both if need be. I tend toward not using all 4 modules during the testing - get it stable with only two. Fact is more modules means more load, no matter how you slice it, so keep it simple; you can stir the other modules back into the mix when you've proven whether or not the memory settings cause the problem. (Reduce the problem, as much as possible, to the least number of variables).

 

But, no matter the course or outcome...I respectfully ask of you all: could we please, just for Joker's sake, try (just try, is all I'm asking) to avoid the overly detailed?

 

If this offends anyone, I apologize in advance - but it's intended to help Joker, and hurt no one.

[BirdDogICT 3]

Gentlemen, if I may, please -

 

But, no matter the course or outcome...I respectfully ask of you all: could we please, just for Joker's sake, try (just try, is all I'm asking) to avoid the overly detailed?

 

If this offends anyone, I apologize in advance - but it's intended to help Joker, and hurt no one.

 

Tamper,

 

I agree. Simpler is better. I used to write technical manuals for an electronics company, so excuse me for being verbose. I recognize that not everyone wants to know how his/her computer works. Not everyone likes to tinker with his/her car, either. But if you want to build a computer, you have to know a little bit about how the pieces go together. My intent was to point out that going from 2 to 4 memory modules causes unintended consequences with memory speed and timings. Not just opinion, but a well-documented fact.

 

The best advice we can offer is to get back to a 2-up configuration and reduce memory speed and/or timings. Then test the system with reduced sliders in BHaH.

 

Respectfuly yours

[Tamper 9]

Tamper,

 

I agree. Simpler is better. I used to write technical manuals for an electronics company, so excuse me for being verbose. I recognize that not everyone wants to know how his/her computer works. Not everyone likes to tinker with his/her car, either. But if you want to build a computer, you have to know a little bit about how the pieces go together. My intent was to point out that going from 2 to 4 memory modules causes unintended consequences with memory speed and timings. Not just opinion, but a well-documented fact.

 

The best advice we can offer is to get back to a 2-up configuration and reduce memory speed and/or timings. Then test the system with reduced sliders in BHaH.

 

Respectfuly yours

 

BDICT, I genuinely appreciate your understanding where I was coming from. You know what? I read what you posted, with great interest...your previous professional experience shows. It was very well written - and by someone, I could tell, who "knows their bidness" In fact, I've re-read it more than once, because it was well-written and informative. You're also absolutely right that people who want to get into this should learn this stuff; some people just sort of freak out when they see all those numbers

 

It also happens that my personal experience proves exactly your (well-taken) point that going from 2 to 4 modules can cause "unintended consequences" (I wonder if that includes me calling my computer a lot of very colorful names - that's what it caused me to do at the time *lol*)

 

Thanks again - best regards.

[phantomjoker 0]

BDICT, I genuinely appreciate your understanding where I was coming from. You know what? I read what you posted, with great interest...your previous professional experience shows. It was very well written - and by someone, I could tell, who "knows their bidness" In fact, I've re-read it more than once, because it was well-written and informative. You're also absolutely right that people who want to get into this should learn this stuff; some people just sort of freak out when they see all those numbers

 

It also happens that my personal experience proves exactly your (well-taken) point that going from 2 to 4 modules can cause "unintended consequences" (I wonder if that includes me calling my computer a lot of very colorful names - that's what it caused me to do at the time *lol*)

 

Thanks again - best regards.

 

 

Ok friends, The PhantomJoker is back! I told you I would be..More filming on the documentary taking up most of my free time..Ok, I may be fixed but would you call flying for an hour and a half error free, "FIXED" I am not totally sure but it is the longest I have been able to use the program. Here is the recent history:

 

Reflashed my BIOS and set to defaults.

Entered game and it crashed immediately.

Remembering that someone said to deliete the USIEL file, I did that.

OFF would no longer load and I got a message to uninstall and reinstall which I did.

Set graphics to default which is I think 800x600x16, all graphics in game set for 2 except for clouds at 1, antialiasing off.

I also unchecked forcefeedback which I don't have.

Entered game and could play but graphics were flickering badly...figured I would crash any second but did not. Frams Per Second shown, was .94....dog slow

Changed graphics to 1014x768x16, antialiasing off and entered game.

Flew ok but some flickering but better.

Changed graphics to 1024x768x32, antialiasing off and this is how I flew for the hour and a half with no flickering.

Frame rate was showing 74 FPS which I don't believe.

 

I always thought this was graphics related and as one poster mentioned, even though I am running SLI, I only have 256mb on those cards and they could be filling up quickly. Only can tell when I get a new card with more memory.

For now, I will keep trying at these settings to see how it goes. Will report more. Once again, thanks to all.

The Phantom Joker!

[phantomjoker 0]

Ok friends, The PhantomJoker is back! I told you I would be..More filming on the documentary taking up most of my free time..Ok, I may be fixed but would you call flying for an hour and a half error free, "FIXED" I am not totally sure but it is the longest I have been able to use the program. Here is the recent history:

 

Reflashed my BIOS and set to defaults.

Entered game and it crashed immediately.

Remembering that someone said to deliete the USIEL file, I did that.

OFF would no longer load and I got a message to uninstall and reinstall which I did.

Set graphics to default which is I think 800x600x16, all graphics in game set for 2 except for clouds at 1, antialiasing off.

I also unchecked forcefeedback which I don't have.

Entered game and could play but graphics were flickering badly...figured I would crash any second but did not. Frams Per Second shown, was .94....dog slow

Changed graphics to 1014x768x16, antialiasing off and entered game.

Flew ok but some flickering but better.

Changed graphics to 1024x768x32, antialiasing off and this is how I flew for the hour and a half with no flickering.

Frame rate was showing 74 FPS which I don't believe.

 

I always thought this was graphics related and as one poster mentioned, even though I am running SLI, I only have 256mb on those cards and they could be filling up quickly. Only can tell when I get a new card with more memory.

For now, I will keep trying at these settings to see how it goes. Will report more. Once again, thanks to all.

The Phantom Joker!

 

Ok, an update...ADMIN Please read..I think this is a software issue to advise on:

 

After the above, I flew OFF successfully throughout the day on and off...Fly, leave computer on, fly, shut down computer off, start computer, fly. Each time I was able to fly as much as I wanted and properly leave the program. Seemed to work fine. I would guess over three hours total all day and one time was 1.5 hours straight with no problems.

 

Then my friend was having some install problems and he asked me to go into the OBD/Flanders folder and click on CFS3.EXE icon and that brought me to the multiplayer window..I did nothing else but then exit that...Ever since then, I am back to locking up and having to reboot the computer. This is a graphics issue and tied into some mixup of the software files. I noticed that in regular CFS3, there is a duplicate file as above mentioned but it is in lower case. It is cfs3.exe, in OFF, it is CFS3.EXE, all capitals. I don't know if that is an issue or not but it was ok until I clicked on that and I think that playing for over and hour and a half straight rules out all the other techic stuff with BIOS and RAM. WHAT NEXT?????

 

Can I take that doggone CFS3 program and delete it now that OFF is installed..Can I remove any reference to it on my computer or do I have to leave it there....I think the two programs are getting things mixed up. Both BTW, are installed on my D: drive, not the default C: drive that it wants to be installed to.....Ok Flanders folks...chime in. Thanks.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Hi, phantomjoker. Welcome back home. I'm sorry to hear that OFF is STILL giving you trouble. It is late, so I will keep this short and answer your question about deleting CFS3 from your computer: YES, you can delete it safely after installing OFF. I did so, and have not had any of your problems, nor any other major problems. I don't think it will hurt to try deleting it. Good night and good luck.

[+Polovski 460]

Joker you can delete your install of CFS3 normally yes which should be a completely separate folder from your OFF install.

 

Do NOT delete anything in \OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields or \OBDSoftware\WW1Scenery.

(That's the default locations). Yes CFS3.exe is used by OFF Manager but only the one in the CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder.

 

 

They should not be mixed up unless somehow you are installing INTO the same folder as CFS3 was installed?

i.e . if it is under \program files\microsoft games\combat flight simulator 3\...... or whatever then that would be bad.

 

To me sounds like you were lucky and got a long session with less strain on the GPU, no idea why CFS3 would change it and maybe it did not, maybe you were just lucky?

 

Maybe check your memory settings now, it was reset to default you say, which may not be the best or correct settings for your memory (the guys above have put a load of info re that to read through).

 

One thing, maybe you have different compatibility settings on cfs3.exe and CFS3.EXE and maybe they are conflicting somehow. Check them both just to see.

[phantomjoker 0]

Joker you can delete your install of CFS3 normally yes which should be a completely separate folder from your OFF install.

 

Do NOT delete anything in \OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields or \OBDSoftware\WW1Scenery.

(That's the default locations). Yes CFS3.exe is used by OFF Manager but only the one in the CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder.

 

 

They should not be mixed up unless somehow you are installing INTO the same folder as CFS3 was installed?

i.e . if it is under \program files\microsoft games\combat flight simulator 3\...... or whatever then that would be bad.

 

To me sounds like you were lucky and got a long session with less strain on the GPU, no idea why CFS3 would change it and maybe it did not, maybe you were just lucky?

 

Maybe check your memory settings now, it was reset to default you say, which may not be the best or correct settings for your memory (the guys above have put a load of info re that to read through).

 

One thing, maybe you have different compatibility settings on cfs3.exe and CFS3.EXE and maybe they are conflicting somehow. Check them both just to see.

 

 

Yes Polovski, The OFF install is in a separate folder than CFS3. What do you mean by the compatibility setting of cfs3.exe in the CFS3 folder and the CFS3.EXE which is in the OFF folder..I thought they did not communicate with each other in the first place?? I am indeed working with a forum member here who is looking at my memory settings in my BIOS. Will report further. I think I should delete or uninstall CFS3 totally now so there are no conflicts. That may not be the best though in case I need to re-install OFF. Then I would have to put CFS3 back on first. I dunno..Maybe I will wait a bit on that.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

I'm not 100% positive, but I don't think you have to reinstall CFS3 before reinstalling OFF. Just insert the OFF disk into your DVD drive and start the install program. It should call for the CFS3 disk, which it uses merely to copy the needed files to run OFF. After OFF gets the files it needs, there is no more need for CFS3, and you do not have to install it.

[Siggi 10]

Joker you can delete your install of CFS3 normally yes which should be a completely separate folder from your OFF install.

 

Do NOT delete anything in \OBDSoftware\CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields or \OBDSoftware\WW1Scenery.

(That's the default locations). Yes CFS3.exe is used by OFF Manager but only the one in the CFSWW1 Over Flanders Fields folder.

 

 

They should not be mixed up unless somehow you are installing INTO the same folder as CFS3 was installed?

i.e . if it is under \program files\microsoft games\combat flight simulator 3\...... or whatever then that would be bad.

 

To me sounds like you were lucky and got a long session with less strain on the GPU, no idea why CFS3 would change it and maybe it did not, maybe you were just lucky?

 

Maybe check your memory settings now, it was reset to default you say, which may not be the best or correct settings for your memory (the guys above have put a load of info re that to read through).

 

One thing, maybe you have different compatibility settings on cfs3.exe and CFS3.EXE and maybe they are conflicting somehow. Check them both just to see.

 

Are you sure about that Pol? I have no cfs3.exe in my OFF folder, and the only one I have configured in my NVidia CP is the .exe in the CFS3 folder, which 100% definitely impacts the OFF sim (I see the glory on my screen everytime I play it).