Manual re-start?

[Hauksbee 103]

Flying games are the only video/computer games I've developed a taste for, but I've never been a Team-and-Mission flyer. My heart lies with 'Quick Combat'. I'm brand new to OFF and there's some problems. [1] First, the Hat Switch on my Logitech Extreme joystick doesn't want to work, though it does in CFS3. Is there a work-around? [2] As Quick Combat starts at 15,000, the engine on my plane keeps cutting out. I keep hitting the 'E' key until it keeps running, but the screen says use Manual Re-start. I have a printed-out list of key commands, but I don't see Manual Re-start. Can anyone clue me in? [3] By the time I get my engine running, all my opponents have passed me and disappeared off the screen, though the TAC claims that they're all behind me. Or right over me. Or under. I keep banking sharp and circling, but I can't get anyone out from behind. [4] Is there really no way to re-load guns? It's disappointing to have to cancel the flight every minute or so to get a new airplane and ammo. Thanks.

[Olham 164]

Don't know about your head switch. Does it work in fixed angles, or not at all?

If you can't find "glide view", you must check "controls" for something like "toggle views" or similar.

If you put that on a button, you should be able to change views.

 

In "Quick combat", you can choose ANYTHING! You can even start on the runway. There should be a

menue on the left, were you can choose your opponent's plane type, and how many they are, if they are

advantaged or disadvantaged, were you start, weather etc.

 

Engine start should be "E", but the starting process takes a while. It shouldn't be necessary in mid air.

Edited March 20, 2009 by Olham

[Maeran 20]

It sounds like you have auto mixture off. If you're going to start at anything over 5000ft (and it will be running rough there) you need auto mixture on. If you don't then your engine will only start when you lean the mixture down to the right ratio and then press the starter (E). You don't have time for that in QC.

 

As for gunnery, when I started with OFF, I also wasted lots of bullets with no effect. This is something you learn with practice, but basically, get so close that you're scared of collision and then go for the engine and pilot. It's the only way!

[Todt Von Oben 0]

Flying games are the only video/computer games I've developed a taste for, but I've never been a Team-and-Mission flyer. My heart lies with 'Quick Combat'. I'm brand new to OFF and there's some problems. [1] First, the Hat Switch on my Logitech Extreme joystick doesn't want to work, though it does in CFS3. Is there a work-around? [2] As Quick Combat starts at 15,000, the engine on my plane keeps cutting out. I keep hitting the 'E' key until it keeps running, but the screen says use Manual Re-start. I have a printed-out list of key commands, but I don't see Manual Re-start. Can anyone clue me in? [3] By the time I get my engine running, all my opponents have passed me and disappeared off the screen, though the TAC claims that they're all behind me. Or right over me. Or under. I keep banking sharp and circling, but I can't get anyone out from behind. [4] Is there really no way to re-load guns? It's disappointing to have to cancel the flight every minute or so to get a new airplane and ammo. Thanks.

 

Hauksbee,

 

I think you've gotten reliable G2 about the Auto Mixture, and starting QC from an altitude of your choice.

 

For other problems: one thing to make sure of is that you have the latest patch correctly uploaded and installed. I and others were experiencing ineffective bullets at close and moderate ranges, even though the game said we were scoring hits. Getting the patch installed and working properly solved that for me.

 

Deflection shooting is an art; it will come with practice. Fly QC; learn to visualize how far and at what angle to lead your target in a turn through experimentation: the game will give you a written notice in blue when you score. After a while you become able to "see it instinctively" and it becomes much easier to hit the mark.

 

The last plane I downed with my Eindekker was a Be2c in a turn with almost 1200 feet separating us. Two bursts of about 20 rounds from his 3 O:clock and I'd killed his gunner and smoked his engine. Down he went. I was engaging similar planes from almost on top of them before I got the patch installed properly, and although my marksmanship was as good as it ever was, they weren't going down. But as soon as I got the patch working, the problem vanished.

 

So, from my experience here I'd say (1) make sure you have the latest patch installed and working correctly; and (2) develop your deflection shooting skills. But also, realize the best way to down a foe is from his 6 O:clock at VERY close range.

 

Welcome to the group, and I hope this helps.

 

Prost!

 

TvO

[Hauksbee 103]

It sounds like you have auto mixture off. If you're going to start at anything over 5000ft

 

As for gunnery, when I started with OFF, I also wasted lots of bullets with no effect. This is something you learn with practice, but basically, get so close that you're scared of collision and then go for the engine and pilot. It's the only way!

Thank you for the come-back, gentlemen. Auto-mixture ON cured my problem. Now I can stay in the fight. Just hosed my first Albatros from point-blank range. But...cannot find JAMS in the Workshop to set it to OFF. Also, it seems that once you run out of ammo, if you continue to fly around long enough, the guns re-set themselves. Is this so, or just my imagination and I really did have a few more rounds in the magazine?

[Hoghead 0]

Thank you for the come-back, gentlemen. Auto-mixture ON cured my problem. Now I can stay in the fight. Just hosed my first Albatros from point-blank range. But...cannot find JAMS in the Workshop to set it to OFF. Also, it seems that once you run out of ammo, if you continue to fly around long enough, the guns re-set themselves. Is this so, or just my imagination and I really did have a few more rounds in the magazine?

 

You didn't run out of ammo your guns jammed. If your guns jam they will often "reset" themselves after awhile. I'm guessing this is a simulation of them jamming because they got to hot, then function returning after they cool off.

 

Scott

[Hauksbee 103]

You didn't run out of ammo your guns jammed. If your guns jam they will often "reset" themselves after awhile. I'm guessing this is a simulation of them jamming because they got to hot, then function returning after they cool off.

 

Scott

 

 

AHA! Thanks. I am now duly warned.

[Thumper41 0]

Remember to use short bursts when firing -- guns are less likely to jam if you use short, 2-3 second bursts. Also, it seems to me that some planes' guns are more prone to jamming than others, but that could be my imagination.

 

Thumper

[Hauksbee 103]

Or just know that heat jams exist, and avoid them alltogether ( learn HOW to shoot )

 

There it is. Taking the other good piece of advice I got here [get to within rock-throwing range] I am discovering the benefits of short bursts. Often, just quick single shots to see where my bullets are falling. If I'm dead-on, I can often get a blue text line. THEN it's "Maggie, bar th' door!".

[tttiger 0]

Or just know that heat jams exist, and avoid them alltogether ( learn HOW to shoot )

 

Actually, Uncle Al, there is a pervasive myth in OFF that machine guns jam because of excess heat.

 

Sorry but that just isn't true. Excessive heat may warp the barrel (thus water cooling in infantry guns) but that only affects the gun's accuracy. it doesn't jam the mechanism.

 

Or excessive heat may cause cook-offs (the round fires without the primer being struck by the firing pin because the chamber is hot enough to ignite the powder). But that doesn't jam the gun. Quite the opposite, it means it won't stop firing when you let up on the trigger. The solution is to twist the belt so it can't keep feeding and firing.

 

Jams can be caused by fouling from powder residue or dirt crudding up the mechanism.

 

Jams can be caused by a failure to extract a round from the chamber (often because the round failed to fire -- defense contractors being what they are and often neglecting quality control -- and did not create the recoil required to cycle the gun's mechanism). If a round does not extract, that means the following round cannot feed into the chamber and you have a jam.

 

Jams can be caused by a faulty belt. If a cloth belt (commonly used in both world wars) gets wet (as in rain), the heat of the gun can cause the belt to swell and fail to feed properly.

 

A WWI plane's guns certainly may jam and the simulation is correct in that respect. Usually caused by bad ammo.

 

Firing short bursts will keep the barrel cooler (and it will remain accurate longer) and certainly allow for better aimed shots.

 

And, yes, you can eliminate jams in the lower right hand corner of the Workshop.

 

But heat itself doesn't cause jams. When you say "heat jams exist," it just isn't true.

 

Made up someone who never fired a real machine gun, I suspect.

 

Look it up. Google is your friend.

 

 

ttt

Edited March 21, 2009 by tttiger

[tttiger 0]

The machine guns of WWI were vastly different from the modern age machine gun ( many more small parts) within the reciever, which happens to be where the heat related stoppage of action occured. Only concerned with the Vickers and the Spandau, in short anything belt fed. Therefore the Lewis and Parabelum guns were unaffected.

 

The cause of this, was rimmed ammunition, the metallurgy of the time, couldn't develop a brass alloy, strong enough for the extraction immediately after firing, without having a rim. This meant that the round itself, needed to be pushed backwards out of the belt, prior to being put infront of the bolt, for chambering.

 

We only see the action of the cocking handles, however many things had to function, exactly. I don't buy that they would unjam, as soon as they cooled because that's pure Bull.

 

Once they jammed, you could kiss the baby

 

Uncle Al,

 

I can't argue with your imagination. Please cite some credible online sources on "heat jams."

 

The Vickers and the Spandau both were variants of Hiram Maxim's original and very simple design that proved very reliable. The vickers was in service for more than a half century.

 

The heat problem was very real but it was confined solely to the barrel, not the firing mechanism, which certainly was not fragile.

 

And, no, the machine guns of WWI were not "vastly different from the modern age machine gun."

 

In fact, in some cases we still are using the same design. The Browning M2 .50 cal is exactly the same mechanism (it's now easier to change barrels) as when it was invented, yes, in World War I. And it's still the standard NATO heavy machine gun.

 

Back in those days, guns were machined, not stamped and steel, not plastic. Actually, they were both more durable and more expensive to produce.

 

ttt

[Siggi 10]

Excessive heat can cause the breech to expand, progressively gripping each successive cartridge more tightly until an extraction-failure occurs. Once the breech has cooled and contracted the stuck cartridge can be cycled out.

 

Suprised a man of your combat experience isn't aware of that Tiger.

[tttiger 0]

Somewhere in your vast military experience, have you ever dealt with a rimmed cartridge, I severely doubt it, because by 1930 it was History. It's only use, was by 'Charlie' to construct a boobytrap from 2 blocks of wood, a French Labell Cartridge, and a couple nails. It was never meant to kill, only wound, and alter your thinking, about persuing your enemy. I wonder if that's spoken about on Google. . :yes:

 

 

Uncle Al,

 

Don't be so effing patronizing.

 

I collect military weapons 1870-1970 including machine guns. I fire all of them.

 

I certainly know what a rimmed cartridge is (both .303 British and the 8mm German were rimmed and both were used throughout both world wars; they didn't disappear in 1930, more like the mid-1950s when the 7.62 NATO round was adopted).

 

But having a rim affects only magazine-fed weapons (they have to be loaded in the correct order on the stripper clip). Makes no difference in belt-fed weapons. Rimless (which actually have rims, just not as wide) cartridges such as the .30-06 get just as hot and works just the same in a cloth belt. The rim (or lack of it) has no effect either way.

 

As for "the metallurgy of the time," the rimless .30-06 cartridge showed up in, well, 1906. It has nothing to do with metallurgy or machine gun belts and everything to do with how the rounds fed on a rifle magazine.

 

And it's Lebel, not Labell.

 

Siggi -- The breach (chamber is the correct term) expands when it gets hot as you noted. That means the cartridge fits more loosely, not tighter.

 

Sorry, guys, find me something other than your foolish opinions. Facts would be helpful.

 

There is no such thing as a heat-caused jam.

 

Heat-caused "runaway guns" (cook-offs), absolutely. Quite a thrill when you can't stop the gun. But not jams.

 

ttt

Edited March 21, 2009 by tttiger

[Siggi 10]

Uncle Al,

 

Don't be so effing patronizing.

 

I collect military weapons 1870-1970 including machine guns. I fire all of them.

 

I certainly know what a rimmed cartridge is (both .303 British and the 8mm German were rimmed and both were used throughout both world wars; they didn't disappear in 1930, more like the mid-1950s when the 7.62 NATO round was adopted).

 

But having a rim affects only magazine-fed weapons (they have to be loaded in the correct order on the stripper clip). Makes no difference in belt-fed weapons. Rimless (which actually have rims, just not as wide) cartridges such as the .30-06 get just as hot and works just the same in a cloth belt. The rim (or lack of it) has no effect either way.

 

As for "the metallurgy of the time," the rimless .30-06 cartridge showed up in, well, 1906. It has nothing to do with metallurgy or machine gun belts and everything to do with how the rounds fed on a rifle magazine.

 

And it's Lebel, not Labell.

 

Siggi -- The breach (chamber is the correct term) expands when it gets hot as you noted. That means the cartridge fits more loosely, not tighter.

 

Sorry, guys, find me something other than your foolish opinions. Facts would be helpful.

 

There is no such thing as a heat-caused jam.

 

Heat-caused "runaway guns" (cook-offs), absolutely. Quite a thrill when you can't stop the gun. But not jams.

 

ttt

 

The metal expands both ways. Or maybe a better way to put it would be it swells.

 

I've seen MG42s jam, and I was given that exact explanation by the chaps firing them. I'm no expert on the inner workings of small-arms operating at extreme temperatures but it makes perfect sense to me. Or maybe they were just "foolish" too.

[Hauksbee 103]

The metal expands both ways. Or maybe a better way to put it would be it swells.

 

I am reluctant to dive in here, in the presence of people who obviously know their weapons, but I did some poking around, consulted a few friends, and it seems that heat-jams do happen. As Siggi put it, 'The metal expands both ways.' He might have said, 'The metal expands along all three axes.'...or, in all directions simultaenously. Which means that a hole bored through a piece of steel will get snug even as the whole piece of metal expands.

 

Then I did a Wikipedia search on 'coefficients of expansion'. They said that stored energy [heat] in a metal causes the molecular bonds to lengthen. [Hence, expansion in all directions] and that steel [depending on the composition] has a coefficient of around 7.2, while brass is 11. Thus with a 1" cube oif steel, and a 1" cube of brass, if you drive the temp. up 100 degrees, the brass will be bigger than the steel.

 

So the scenario would run: the bolt drives a freezing cold MG round into a blazing hot chamber [now reduced in size]. The thin brass wall of the cartridge heats instantly, softens, and then the powder goes off, expanding the cartridge which makes it hotter still, and softer. And snugger.

 

One friend, with whom I share a facination with the Zulu Wars [and the defense of Roarke's Drift] commented that as Welsh troopers fought on through the night, the barrels of their Martini-Henry rifles glowed dull red, rounds cooked off, and worse, the cartridges softened to a place where the extractor claw pulled the base of the cartridge off leaving the rest in the breech.

 

So, all things considered, I'll come down on the side of "Heat Jams do exist".

Edited March 22, 2009 by Hauksbee

[tttiger 0]

Hauk,

 

I would Google machine guns and heat and see if the only mention of heat damage is the barrel. I'm pretty sure that's what you'll find.

 

I don't mind saying I'm wrong (won't be a first) but I do know my stuff on this one.

 

The chamber does not become smaller with heat. It becomes larger. And, as you noted, the brass casing expands to fill the chamber no matter what the size. That's exactly why brass is used.

 

If you're all that fascinated with the Zulu War (and Rorke's Drift) you need to study up on the Martini as well. They indeed did have an extraction problem. The Mark II (Zulu War model, usually an upgraded Mark I) had a stronger extractor and later models had a longer lever to give the shooter better leverage in the extraction phase. That had nothing to do with heat (well, the cook-offs did).

 

The casings did break but because they were made of wound brass rather than a single piece.

 

Case heads also pull off of modern ammunition but the reason usually is incorrect head spacing. That problem certainly can exist in machine guns (they come with a head space "key'" to adjust it).

 

Enough. Do a little research on machine guns and heat.

 

And tell me your experience with real machine guns.

 

And I'm outta this topic.

 

ttt

[nio48 0]

Well I know less than all of you about machine guns ,but my view is that is definitely game, set, and match to Mr TTTiger

 

 

best

 

nio

 

[Hauksbee 103]

Amen, and goodnight all.

[Siggi 10]

Well I know less than all of you about machine guns ,but my view is that is definitely game, set, and match to Mr TTTiger

 

 

best

 

nio

 

 

I think I'll take the opinion of those who have personally fired MGs extensively in anger.