Napalm as cluster bombs

[+Stary]

This idea came to me when reading Gr.Viper's post about still present napalm ineffectiveness in new SF2 Vietnam -how about making napalm as cluster bombs?

 

Here are the quick test results:

 

Cloned BLU-1, set as cluster canister with bomblets, values are straight from CBU-24B, but their effect is set to "smallbombeffect", for SF2/SF2V:

 

 

 

and here are the visual results of such new weapon

 

 

 

Each bomblet (50 in CBU-24B) spawns smallbombeffect on hit, with it's fireball and gray smoke. The only issue now is the explosion spawned at the beggining of dispersion, would require custom effect, but that's not a problem. The clusters are set as incendiary if that counts in engine.

Edited April 17, 2009 by CA_Stary

[+Gr.Viper]

Detonation altitude is fixed, right? It is possible to draw an effect that would engine-wise originate from detonation but graphically grow from an "impact" point on the ground?

 

I still hope TK gets round to this

[+Stary]

Detonation altitude is fixed, right? It is possible to draw an effect that would engine-wise originate from detonation but graphically grow from an "impact" point on the ground?

 

I still hope TK gets round to this

 

I'll have to look into particlesystem for ClusterBombEffects, maybe there are sub-emitters for dispersion included. Right now the smallbombeffect occures both on 1)opening of the canister (single explosion) 2) for every bomblet groundhit.

 

Using the default napalmexplosioneffect instanced 50 times at once is a killer, maybe new one would be required.

 

There's HEIGHTOFFSET= variable for effects, but i don't think we'll need it

 

edit:

there are sub-emitters used to represent falling bomblets included in particlesystem.ini, I can get rid of them (in fact make new effect based on stock one)

Edited April 17, 2009 by CA_Stary

[+Gr.Viper]

Using the default napalmexplosioneffect instanced 50 times at once is a killer

Can you post a screenshot? :yes:

[+Stary]

Can you post a screenshot? :yes:

 

Working on it

 

edit:

for some reason doesn't work for me right now

 

but i set EffectClassName= to MediumRocketEffects, and ClusterDispersion=0.350000

 

looks better that before

Edited April 17, 2009 by CA_Stary

[+Julhelm]

I used to do this to simulate nukes before I came up with the FAE trick.

[+Stary]

Ok, I think I have now what i was aiming to. This one explodes at 10 meters above groung, but thanks to high dispersion rate, 2.0 and attached effect creates quite interesting result:

 

1 -the exposion that "ignites" the napalm, 10 meters above ground:

 

 

 

2,3 -the results, notice it's quite "Apocalypse Now" alike, not exactly real in apperance, but look plausible:

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the weapon, called BLU-1 Napalm (Cluster) in the loadout screen:

 

 

 

I hope someone skilled will turn it into more realistic napalm

Edited April 17, 2009 by CA_Stary

[i fight by 1]

Very good job :D

[+Stary]

The size and look of the effect can be changed by setting EffectClassName= from MediumRocketEffects to ie. LargeRocketEffects or

SmallRocketEffects , the default looks nice IMO

[Guest a10boar]

The size and look of the effect can be changed by setting EffectClassName= from MediumRocketEffects to ie. LargeRocketEffects or

SmallRocketEffects , the default looks nice IMO

 

The SPAD's fans just got happier!

[GwynO]

I was fiddling along those lines too, I didn't take an exact note of the values before uninstalling SFP2 prior to SF2v. I chose napalm as the effect still, but with something ridiculous like 8000 incendiary bomblets, 12 metres detonation and I can't remember the dispersal, .5 possibly. Either way, result was way cool long nape effect, longer lasting than normal from the sheer amount of churning bomblets melding into one carpet of sticky flame. Armed recce is great for testing these sorts of fiddles because you often get a nice long convoy to test drop a couple BLU-1 on. My edits seems to kill trucks and the lighter stuff but not much damage to hangars or tanks, probably even 8000 incendiary bomblets isn't enough to destroy a line of advancing tanks

[+331Killerbee]

In Your post CA_Stary, It reads maybe You'd need a Weapons Expert opinions on this. Well, first. I don't want to come off as a so called "Rivet-Counter". Second, I have 20 Years experence as a Avation Ordnanceman in the USMC.

 

First off.....I think the Effect looks Cool. It's a great Job. The secondary Effect with the dispersion is about right on as far as Visuals go.

 

But here's the Bad.......As a Weapon, It's Un-Realistic.

 

Let's take a look at what Napalm is. I'm very experenced in it, For I have mixed Gallons of the Stuff over the Years.

 

It's no Secret....Napalm consist of 73 to 74% of 119 Octane AV Gas. 26 to 27% Powder Detergent. Yes, Good Ole' Laundry Detergent. It's mixed in a Machine much like a Concrete Mixer with with Pump and a Hose on it. The mixture is mixed to a consistancy of what would look like Purple Jelly or Jam. The differences in Mixture percentages controls Burn Rate. (How much of a Fire Ball You would have.) This material is pumped into the Bomb Container. In My case, The Mk.77. But this applies to the BLU's too. The Container is made of Soft Skin Aircraft Grade Alumminum much like a Drop Tank does. Once topped off, The Fuzing would be placed. In the case of the Mk.77, Cavities on Top and the Nose and Tail exist. Four in all, but only Two used. The Fuses consist of Two 4 Lb. Whille-P (White Phosphours) Fuses. They are Contact Fuses and are armed upon release by Arming Wire.

 

 

The Strike Aircraft would release the "Fire Bomb" at a general Area being attacked. The Bomb would hit the Ground and rupture, Momentium would spread the Jelly Napalm out. All the while, The Whille-P Fuses ignite causing the Whille-P to burn when in contact with Oxygen. Thus starts a chain reaction and it ignites the Napalm.

 

 

Napalm was always used on "Soft" Targets. The question arose that what would happen if one dropped a Napalm Canister or Two on a Fuel Tank.......Depending on the Density Of the Steel that the Fuel Tank is made of....Usually around a 1/2 in or better....It'll take awhile for Naplam sitting there before the Tank would eventually Explode.

 

Naplam is Useless against Tanks.(Armour)....Again, The factor of the Density of Steel involved.

 

 

I don't want to come off as a Sour Sort...The Effect is Great! It's just unrealistic, That's all....

 

 

Semper Fi!

 

331KillerBee

Edited April 18, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee]

Don't get Me wrong.....This is a "Free" and "Open" Sim.....Do what Yall' want.

[+331Killerbee]

CA_Stary,

 

The Effect Is just cool. The dispersion is just about perfect. If Using the Entries as a Cluster Bomb as a Work-Around to get this Effect, Cool. Just be careful on the Explosive Value of the Weapon though.......Napalm Burns, Not Explodes...

 

Just My Two Pennies....

[i fight by 1]

CA_Stary,

 

The Effect Is just cool. The dispersion is just about perfect. If Using the Entries as a Cluster Bomb as a Work-Around to get this Effect, Cool. Just be careful on the Explosive Value of the Weapon though.......Napalm Burns, Not Explodes...

 

Just My Two Pennies....

 

 

Oooh, so your just saying It's not really AT, just AP?

[+331Killerbee]

Oooh, so your just saying It's not really AT, just AP?

 

You've got it!

[Jarhead1]

Hey Master Guns, u ever seen thermite bombs?

[+331Killerbee]

One other thing about Napalm, Most Casulities didn't come from being burned by the Jelly. Most were done in by Affectation from the lack of Oxygen. The "Fire Ball" would take the Oxygen out of the Air. Many were killed this way....

Edited April 18, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[+331Killerbee]

Hey Master Guns, u ever seen thermite bombs?

 

Not in My Time. The closest thing was CBU's with a large amount of smaller Bomblets that had delayed Fuzing. More like Mine laying than anything.....

 

(LOL....One of these Days, I'll have to tell Yall' about the "Monkey Movie" and FAE's........Or the "Sneeky Petes")

Edited April 18, 2009 by 331Killerbee

[GwynO]

Just a thought, but the destructive value of my napalm clusters seems to work for me, just use incendiary type for the bomblets, keep the effect as napalm and make up for the wussiness of the incendiaries with sheer volume. Problem solved.

[+Stary]

331Killerbee, your informations are simply awesome,

 

I tried the incendiary setting for cluster type, but noticed no differences from mixed AP/AT. The main reason behing this modification is to make it more effective at all; the standard unmodded BLU-1 destroys two or three trucks moving in straight line, opposite to the visual effects of the explosion, a glitch that buggered me since I first got WoV in 2005. Using the clusterbomb one can have greater control over the damage, visual effects, and dispersion area in a simple way. And I never did any weapon mod before (apart from effects :blush2:)

The dispersion is set at 10 meters, because lower values, orground hit, would prevent any realistic area coverage at all.

 

And yes, "This is a "Free" and "Open" Sim....."

[GwynO]

Going to go back and test this out again, I must have flown at least 30 armed recce missions fiddling with different values for this last week, that's one thing that drives me nuts about "modding" (a few text edits) this game is that waiting time to load up the game, select mission and test then go back to the drawing board.. Anyway! In SF2, I had got the incendiary BLU-1 to destroy a good stretch of trucks, yet the remaining can dropped on a line of hangars did nothing other than cover them with orange. Same with CAS, I didn't get any tank kills but scored some AAA. The annoying thing though is with a high value of bomblets, the best airburst felt like 20 metres, but that's too close to my preferred level bomb dropping altitude for napes.

 

There must be a solution to this, Napalm is just too cool and iconic not to be sorted.

[+Stary]

New version, still little damage per individual cluster, hard to kill an ABC protected tank with it, but more of them, and new effect attached with my try to simulate WP white smoke. Dispersion the same.

 

 

[+swambast]

Guys, this is just great work...another awesome example of how the community comes together and can take an idea and collaboratively work to make something even greater and better, keep up the great work!

[+ST0RM]

It reminds me of a large scale FAE. Awesome work.

 

Thanks.

 

-S