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JimAttrill

What is the best speed for climb?

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What is the best speed to climb at in a BE? If I go below 50mph the stall warning comes on, so I push the stick forward a bit. Does just over 50mph give me the best rate of climb? Or should I do a dipsy, put the nose down, pick up speed and then bring the stick back?

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What is the best speed to climb at in a BE? If I go below 50mph the stall warning comes on, so I push the stick forward a bit. Does just over 50mph give me the best rate of climb? Or should I do a dipsy, put the nose down, pick up speed and then bring the stick back?

 

Yeah bit of a clunker - level off after take-off to gain speed and then climb very gradually...

 

Nice to see another user in Johannesburg that means two users of OFF here now - u and me.

 

 

WM

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Also try leaning the engine on the ground before take off to get maximum rpm. Take off at a shallow angle, build up speed, then carefully climb. Maybe take a few % less fuel if you have trouble :)

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Hi there Winder and Polovski I think you two know more about Flight sims than I ever thought possible. I'm a bit of a newbie though I did manage to get a BE2c to 34 hrs and major with one kill before biting the dust :blink: However, in 1915 that is easy because the only enemies around seem to be even slower than me and I can always run away :yes: I wasn't shot down but collided with my wing man (I think). Couldn't have been Archie as I was on my side of the lines and the TAC showed no EA at all.

 

But height is what I need and that thing climbs incredibly slowly. It does seem that the way to gain altitude is to warp, and often I end up above the EA or at the same height. I see others complain about the warp bringing them below the enemy but it doesn't seem to happen to me. As I am still in 1915 maybe that has something to do with it.

 

I am using auto mixture at the moment but will try leaning it off a bit to see what revs I can make. I should, of course, lean the mixture with altitude. I have just realised that the HUD has a rate of climb instrument - which I wasn't using as it hadn't been invented then. But at least I can find the best climb angle and mixture setting.

 

It's funny to think that most of the time my bum in front of the computer is actually higher than my 'virtual' bum in the BE. :biggrin:

 

Winder - do you have TrackIr? It seems to be a bit pricey here, so I am considering making a FreeTrack setup. Electronics isn't my forte but I can try.

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Hi there Winder and Polovski I think you two know more about Flight sims than I ever thought possible. I'm a bit of a newbie though I did manage to get a BE2c to 34 hrs and major with one kill before biting the dust :blink: However, in 1915 that is easy because the only enemies around seem to be even slower than me and I can always run away :yes: I wasn't shot down but collided with my wing man (I think). Couldn't have been Archie as I was on my side of the lines and the TAC showed no EA at all.

 

But height is what I need and that thing climbs incredibly slowly. It does seem that the way to gain altitude is to warp, and often I end up above the EA or at the same height. I see others complain about the warp bringing them below the enemy but it doesn't seem to happen to me. As I am still in 1915 maybe that has something to do with it.

 

I am using auto mixture at the moment but will try leaning it off a bit to see what revs I can make. I should, of course, lean the mixture with altitude. I have just realised that the HUD has a rate of climb instrument - which I wasn't using as it hadn't been invented then. But at least I can find the best climb angle and mixture setting.

 

It's funny to think that most of the time my bum in front of the computer is actually higher than my 'virtual' bum in the BE. :biggrin:

 

Winder - do you have TrackIr? It seems to be a bit pricey here, so I am considering making a FreeTrack setup. Electronics isn't my forte but I can try.

 

I use Trackir 4.0

 

I have a Trackir 3 that you can have - e-mail me on support.

 

WM

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Helpful AND generous.

 

Well done indeed Mark.

 

Our good friend Homeboy is currently working on this project. Don't know if you are aware of it or not, but he's working on turn rates, climb rates, maximum speeds at certain altitudes, service ceiling etc. It is a work in progress. You can see it here...

 

http://snomhf.exofire.net/OFFaircraft.html

 

Homeboy is not going to RFC tables to check out their posted statistics. He is taking the aircraft aloft, and grabbing a stopwatch, and pressing "z" to get accurate figures, so the figures are for OFF aircraft, whether this is accurately modelled or not...it's the way they are.

 

The climb/dive rate tables are not filled in yet.

 

http://snomhf.exofire.net/OFFaircraft/climbDive.html

 

Check that page out guys, and keep an eye on it.

 

PS. Jim, Homeboy has also set up a great guide to setting up TrackIR, up in the stickies. That will help you immensely.

Edited by Check Six

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I use Trackir 4.0

 

I have a Trackir 3 that you can have - e-mail me on support.

 

WM

 

This may be a very stupid question but where is support? You could sms me your email address to................ as I know it is not normal to put these on a public forum.

 

Jim never put personal details on the internet - many weird people out there.

 

Contact me on:

 

support@overflandersfields.com

 

 

WM

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This may be a very stupid question but where is support? You could sms me your email address to................ as I know it is not normal to put these on a public forum.

 

Jim never put personal details on the internet - many weird people out there.

 

Contact me on:

 

support@overflandersfields.com

 

 

WM

 

 

Bump as I edited your post.

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What is the best speed to climb at in a BE?

 

That I can't tell you, but I can tell you how to find out. Every OFF plane seems to behave pretty much the same this way, so this will probably work for the Quirk...

 

To find the answer, you need to "cheat", so do this in QC free flight with your test pilot. You'll need to disable the wind, use all the trim controls, and the HUD's VSI, ASI, and artificial horizon. Once you get your answer, you can put everything back realistic and manually fly the way you discovered on the test hop.

 

Anyway, take off, level off just above the treetops, and trim all the controls so the plane flies hands-off. Then start feeding in up elevator trim to make the plane climb until you see the VSI start to go up quickly. As soon as you see this jump begin, stop adding elevator trim. The plane will zoom just a bit, then slow down to about 80% of its max level speed and settle into a gentle climb with a lower ROC than initially. This is in the ballpark, now you just need to tweak it.

 

Keep 1 eye on the VSI and the other on the ASI. Try adding a couple of clicks of up elevator. The goal is to bump the ROC up a hair without causing too great a loss in speed. Generally, the best ROC is when the plane is between 75-80% of its max level speed (at that altitude). Note that if the airspeed keeps falling after your initial up input, you gave it too much and need to back off it.

 

If you want, once you have this settled, just let the plane keep climbing, so you can see at which altitudes it begins to lose its macho. As you get higher, both ROC and airspeed slack off, but sometimes there's a big change above a certain height.

 

For most OFF planes, the sustained max climb rate is achieved at a high fraction of their max level speed. If you pull the nose up more, they just lose airspeed but ROC will usually remain the same or only slightly less, until speed falls close to stall speed.

 

Once you get high enough that your ROC goes down nearly to nothing, you can still coax some more altitude out of the beast by leveling off, building up max, speed, then zooming up steeply and leveling quickly before you stall. This works best in 2-seaters, no doubt due to their lower wing loadings, but each zoom will only gain you a hundred feet or less.

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I haven't flown the Quirk in campaign mode, but I tried it once in QC. I liked its great stability, but also noticed how terrible its speed and especially climbing speed were. I always feel a bit sorry for the BE2c guys I shoot down in the campaign - it doesn't feel much of a victory to kill them.

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Just wait until I get the RE8 (though I have to wait a couple of years for that). At least the gunner is in the back seat this time :victory:

 

 

Hey Bullethead, I thought the CFS3 trim controls didn't work in OFF so I haven't tried to use them......

Edited by JimAttrill

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Just wait until I get the RE8 (though I have to wait a couple of years for that). At least the gunner is in the back seat this time :victory:

 

The RE8 flies extremely well, with none of the nasty habits it had in real life. It seems to be completely spin-proof, for example, although it will snaproll if you're going fast enough. It's my favorite barnstorming plane, even though it's hard to see where I'm going. Periodically, I do a QC free flight where I just to a bunch of low-alt aerobatics, try to fly through hangars and under bridges, etc. The RE8 does this sort of nonsense better than most planes.

 

Hey Bullethead, I thought the CFS3 trim controls didn't work in OFF so I haven't tried to use them......

 

Yup, they work just fine. It's just not considered realistic to use them on most WW1 crates. A few did have some trim, but not many.

 

HOWEVER, even the trimless planes were test-flown repeatedly and adjusted (tightening some wires, loosening others) until they flew as well as they was able, or at least until the pilots were happy with. Same sort of thing as pit crews tweaking the suspension of race cars in all the practice and qualifying runs prior to the actual race.

 

So, I consider it perfectly OK to trim my plane out as soon as I take off. This represents the results of all the test flights I would have flown the day before in real life, but which you don't do in OFF. Once I like how it's set, I don't touch the trim again for the duration of the mission.

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The RE8 flies extremely well, with none of the nasty habits it had in real life. It seems to be completely spin-proof, for example, although it will snaproll if you're going fast enough. It's my favorite barnstorming plane, even though it's hard to see where I'm going. Periodically, I do a QC free flight where I just to a bunch of low-alt aerobatics, try to fly through hangars and under bridges, etc. The RE8 does this sort of nonsense better than most planes.

 

 

 

Yup, they work just fine. It's just not considered realistic to use them on most WW1 crates. A few did have some trim, but not many.

 

HOWEVER, even the trimless planes were test-flown repeatedly and adjusted (tightening some wires, loosening others) until they flew as well as they was able, or at least until the pilots were happy with. Same sort of thing as pit crews tweaking the suspension of race cars in all the practice and qualifying runs prior to the actual race.

 

So, I consider it perfectly OK to trim my plane out as soon as I take off. This represents the results of all the test flights I would have flown the day before in real life, but which you don't do in OFF. Once I like how it's set, I don't touch the trim again for the duration of the mission.

 

Bullethead,

 

I wasn't aware that you are able to trim your aircraft in OFF. Like yourself, I don't consider trimming your aircraft as cheating, as you would be doing exactly as you suggested...taking your aircraft up in the afternoon and having a good chat with your AM and keeping him working through the night to get it trimmed right (giving him the next day off of course).

 

I have always wanted the ability to use the trim-pots (rotatable dials on throttle) to adjust for pitch and roll, but was unable as the controls for trimming in many flight sims are keys similar to + and -, so you could just adjust them "on the fly" so to speak.

 

Is there a way to use these controls in OFF?

 

Could you please explain how to trim your aircraft in OFF?

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I too sort out the trim settings on a test flight or two for each new aircraft I am assigned. Once I have them dialed in I make all trim adjustments on the ground before take-off, just as your mechanicians would have done in WW1. Here are the keys:

 

Rudder Trim L: CONTROL + 0

Rudder Trim R: CONTROL + 3

Elev Trim U: 1

Elev Trim D: 7

Flaps Trim L: CONTROL + 4

Flaps Trim D: CONTROL + 6

 

(all above on the number key pad)

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

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I have always wanted the ability to use the trim-pots (rotatable dials on throttle) to adjust for pitch and roll,.... Is there a way to use these controls in OFF?

 

Could you please explain how to trim your aircraft in OFF?

 

You can use the rotary knobs but you have to program them carefully and use them differently than the trim wheels in real planes. Instead of moving them to a certain position and leaving them there, you have to move them over, then re-center them. This is because of how the CFS3 engine handles trim. Each time you hit one of the key combos Louvert posted, you bump the trim in that direction. If you hold that combo, you get a continues stream of trim inputs until you reach the max in that direction. And that's what happens if you put a trim command on a rotary and leave it off-center for any length of time. Hence the need to move the rotary slightly off-center, then back to center quickly.

 

I have a Saitek HOTAS with rotaries. To get trim to work on them, I use the Saitek profile editor to define the rotaries as "banded" inputs. Then I divide its range of motion into 3 bands, making the center band occupy about 3/4 of the total travel. This I leave with no command attached, and put opposite trim commands out at the ends. This is the only way I've found to get any sort of precision on the trim inputs when you only need a little bit. The big center null area lets you get off the trim input quickly.

 

Doing this, however, prevents you from counting how many "bumps" you've given the trim. Thus, you can't do the Louvert pre-flight trimming. Instead, you have to take off and trim out while circling your airfield. This amounts to the same thing I guess.

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The method BH is describing here is very close to the way I've been doing it to build my climb tables.

Thanks for the validation there BH!

 

 

That I can't tell you, but I can tell you how to find out. Every OFF plane seems to behave pretty much the same this way, so this will probably work for the Quirk...

 

To find the answer, you need to "cheat", so do this in QC free flight with your test pilot. You'll need to disable the wind, use all the trim controls, and the HUD's VSI, ASI, and artificial horizon. Once you get your answer, you can put everything back realistic and manually fly the way you discovered on the test hop.

 

Anyway, take off, level off just above the treetops, and trim all the controls so the plane flies hands-off. Then start feeding in up elevator trim to make the plane climb until you see the VSI start to go up quickly. As soon as you see this jump begin, stop adding elevator trim. The plane will zoom just a bit, then slow down to about 80% of its max level speed and settle into a gentle climb with a lower ROC than initially. This is in the ballpark, now you just need to tweak it.

 

Keep 1 eye on the VSI and the other on the ASI. Try adding a couple of clicks of up elevator. The goal is to bump the ROC up a hair without causing too great a loss in speed. Generally, the best ROC is when the plane is between 75-80% of its max level speed (at that altitude). Note that if the airspeed keeps falling after your initial up input, you gave it too much and need to back off it.

 

If you want, once you have this settled, just let the plane keep climbing, so you can see at which altitudes it begins to lose its macho. As you get higher, both ROC and airspeed slack off, but sometimes there's a big change above a certain height.

 

For most OFF planes, the sustained max climb rate is achieved at a high fraction of their max level speed. If you pull the nose up more, they just lose airspeed but ROC will usually remain the same or only slightly less, until speed falls close to stall speed.

 

Once you get high enough that your ROC goes down nearly to nothing, you can still coax some more altitude out of the beast by leveling off, building up max, speed, then zooming up steeply and leveling quickly before you stall. This works best in 2-seaters, no doubt due to their lower wing loadings, but each zoom will only gain you a hundred feet or less.

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Lou and Bullethead,

 

Thanks. I guess I should have known that the trim wheel idea wouldn't work. I'll just trim it like Lou suggests. Bullethead, I understand now how to make the trim pots operate as a trim wheel, but I'm not going to mess with nulls etc. If they can't operate as a "normal" trim, I'll just use keys to bump it a bit at a time.

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uncleal wrote:

Nobody in WWI had 'Trim on the Fly' capability.

 

Except for the Strutters with the tail plane you could adjust from the pilot's seat...and that SE5a you mentioned, (that's what the little wheel is for in the cockpit).

 

Even so, I still let my lead flight mechanician Sgt. Dinsdale take care of that for me before I sally forth.

 

"DINSDALE!"

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

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The method BH is describing here is very close to the way I've been doing it to build my climb tables. Thanks for the validation there BH!

 

Thank you for flagellating yourself for our benefit instead of actually playing the game :biggrin:

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